Were going to be tired crew!

VS have decided that the crew both cabin and flight crew that take out the VS003 will bring back the VS026 the day later which means less than 24 hours in New York and the VS026 crew will bring back the VS004 again.

I for one will not be doing that and I think that there will be a few other crew who think the same as me. So I would think that those flights are going to go with not a full crew and therefore the service will suffer for 2 reason the lack of crew and also the crew will be tired.

Is there an any other crew on here that think the same or do you like the idea of the new trip rotation?

Will the amount of layover hours for crew on the new arrangement fall within the minimum aviation industry standard? And the guidelines set down by the C.A.A etc?

wayne[8D]

yes its legal, still going to be tiring though doing a trip that used to take 3 days on our rota in 2. Which will also mean that VS can fit another trip in out rota too.

can i ask then if it is legal and it will be an operational rota for crew. Why will you not be doing it??

I understand it is tiring to have such a limited stopover but it is quite a short sector to fly.

By the way if i were Mr B i would look after my staff and keep them all flying fresh as daisy's.

Cheers Wayne

Because I don't want to put my body through that. For E.G we check in for the VS003 at 0730 most crew will get up 2 hours before that So the day starts at 0530 check in 0730 arrive 1210 local arrive hotel at say 2pm thats a thats a 14hr30 day so far. You cant sleep when you get there or you wont sleep at night and the check out time will be 0530ish the next day. Get back have 2 days off and then back to work. I agree its a short flight time and not much time differance but still very tiring.

So are you resining from V-S?

Originally posted by virgin is the best
Because I don't want to put my body through that. For E.G we check in for the VS003 at 0730 most crew will get up 2 hours before that So the day starts at 0530 check in 0730 arrive 1210 local arrive hotel at say 2pm thats a thats a 14hr30 day so far. You cant sleep when you get there or you wont sleep at night and the check out time will be 0530ish the next day. Get back have 2 days off and then back to work. I agree its a short flight time and not much time differance but still very tiring.

[mcmbenjamin]

Less time away from home is good too.

I remember FAs would love IAD-SFO/LAS/LAX/SJC-IAD flights because they could be back home and got work done. Pilots would choose to jump seat out to the West Coast to fly the plane back and not spend time in a hotel.

Will Air Canada have YYT-LHR-YYT be a turn?

One issue I remember is the before LAX was a turn Indy put the flight attendants in a really nice hotel in Santa Monica. They too had about 18 hours in the city that were for recharging and sleep. There seamed to be lack of service on this flight. I wonder if they slept or partyed...

That's a very long day for the CC;) I thought the crew brought back the same flight that they did going out i.e. the 45 crew do the 46 etc. How long do the 25 crew get in NY?

VS.

[Neil]

I understand it is a long day for you (you can't include your get up hour to get to bed hour as part of your working day however!), but surely you are not in a position to say "I'm not doing because I don't want to", or can you say that? I often have to work hours and do things that don't personally suit me, but because its part of my job then I have to do it, tired or not and if I took your attitude I would be out of a job very quickly. Maybe VS CC are allowed to dictate what you do and don't want to do and can get away with it, lucky you if you can but I think you attitude it a bit off if I'm honest.

Neil:)

I understand it is a long day for you (you can't include your get up hour to get to bed hour as part of your working day however!), but surely you are not in a position to say "I'm not doing because I don't want to", or can you say that? I often have to work hours and do things that don't personally suit me, but because its part of my job then I have to do it, tired or not and if I took your attitude I would be out of a job very quickly. Maybe VS CC are allowed to dictate what you do and don't want to do and can get away with it, lucky you if you can but I think you attitude it a bit off if I'm honest.

I agree with what you say to some extent. However, I sure don't want to be served by some of the CC of a more questionable quality if they haven't slept and are even more unpleasant. (Not meaning you by the way VITB;)).

VS.

I totally concur with you Neil, I however was going the longer rout about saying it. I have to work often 7 straight days and be on call for 24hours five days of each weak. I look after peoples lifeÕs for a living and even though I get tired I never dictate what I can and cant work because the hours I have to work fall within local guidelines on employment law. The only way I would say no is to resign and that is what I am asking VIRGIN IS THE BEST to see whether he or she is going to resign or is just making an off the cuff remark.
Cheers Wayne[^][:o)]

Originally posted by Attitude23
I understand it is a long day for you (you can't include your get up hour to get to bed hour as part of your working day however!), but surely you are not in a position to say "I'm not doing because I don't want to", or can you say that? I often have to work hours and do things that don't personally suit me, but because its part of my job then I have to do it, tired or not and if I took your attitude I would be out of a job very quickly. Maybe VS CC are allowed to dictate what you do and don't want to do and can get away with it, lucky you if you can but I think you attitude it a bit off if I'm honest.

Neil:)

[Neil]

Originally posted by VS045
However, I sure don't want to be served by some of the CC of a more questionable quality if they haven't slept and are even more unpleasant.
VS.

They, as should anybody in a customer service job, be utterly professional whilst they are at work, irrelevant of how much/little sleep they have had - every job has its good and bad points and we all have to get on with it until we, either win the lottery or marry a millionaire, having a strop won't achieve anything.

Neil:)

I presume VITB that you plan to avoid this new arrangement by swapping your rota with a colleague??? Cannot see you having much joy there unfortunately, surely all existing crew will want to avoid this new arrangement like the plague???

From the customers angle, this brings up some potentially worrying customer service concerns - VS need to monitor this closely to ensure that service levels don't slide anymore......

[mcmbenjamin]

Originally posted by Attitude23

They, as should anybody in a customer service job, be utterly professional whilst they are at work, irrelevant of how much/little sleep they have had...

CC are there for safety. Everything else is extra.

Pardon? everything else is there as part of their job. Safety is a primary part of the job but not the paramount. Safety/Health and safety are part of everyone's job where people are concerned, not just air cabin crew.

Originally posted by mcmbenjamin

Originally posted by Attitude23

They, as should anybody in a customer service job, be utterly professional whilst they are at work, irrelevant of how much/little sleep they have had...

CC are there for safety. Everything else is extra.

I am not saying I will leave my job just saying that I am not doing those trips. I will swap off them. With other crew or crewing themselves.

VS employ CC for safety that is our primary job role sure customer service is a big part but safety would and will always come first. Tired CC will affect Customer service and Safety.

A 9-5 job is not the same as a CC job. Do you have time differnace to deal with everytime you go to work? Thats a big part of making people tired.

[mcmbenjamin]

Originally posted by jerseyboy
Pardon? everything else is there as part of their job. Safety is a primary part of the job but not the paramount. Safety/Health and safety are part of everyone's job where people are concerned, not just air cabin crew.

It is part of there job but safety is the reason they are there and focus of there job.
The primary responsibility for flight attendants is for the safety of the people onboard (crew and passengers) and preparing the cabin for an emergency. Safety is paramount. Serving drinks and meals is not. I for one think FAs should be viewed as safely people who happen to serve food if time allows. Not the other way.

I'll agree to disagree.

It's no different to working shifts in particular night shifts. Working 12 hour shifts I used to be on the go for 16 hours if you include the wakeup and travelling time etc as you have done and there is no rest in the bunk halfway through the day. Working nights completely throws out your body clock and is just the same as jetlag.

But that's the job, you do it to the best of your ability while you are there and you get on with it.

[preiffer]

Originally posted by virgin is the best
Do you have time differnace to deal with everytime you go to work? Thats a big part of making people tired.

Yes, when I get off an 11 hour flight to walk straight into a 3 hour meeting (as a LOT of us on here do...) [ii]

Originally posted by G-VOPS
It's no different to working shifts in particular night shifts. Working 12 hour shifts I used to be on the go for 16 hours if you include the wakeup and travelling time etc as you have done and there is no rest in the bunk halfway through the day. Working nights completely throws out your body clock and is just the same as jetlag.

But that's the job, you do it to the best of your ability while you are there and you get on with it.

I agree. Its part of the job- CC have an awful lot of "perks of the job". By applying to be CC you are well aware that you will work long unsociable hours therefore it should come as no surprise. I personally think you should just get on with it.

Originally posted by preiffer

Originally posted by virgin is the best
Do you have time differnace to deal with everytime you go to work? Thats a big part of making people tired.

Yes, when I get off an 11 hour flight to walk straight into a 3 hour meeting (as a LOT of us on here do...) [ii]

I won't refer you back to my itineries posted for the past two months, but i reckon it probably rivals your average long haul crew. AND I had to get off the plane and do a full days work in most locations... and that was after working in lounges and on flights as well.

But I enjoy the work, so i don't complain.

I'm staying in an airport Hotel at the moment, playing spot the aircrew.... they are generally the ones laying around the pool doing nothing, rather than sitting there with a laptop working away!

Get in and out of JFK in one day instead of two and surely you'll have more chance of crewing a flight to somewhere were you too can lay around the pool and do nothing.

[Neil]

Originally posted by virgin is the best
I am not saying I will leave my job just saying that I am not doing those trips. I will swap off them. With other crew or crewing themselves.

So your happy for your colleagues to be tired just as long as you aren't!! God this thread gets better, I find it totally uncomprehenable that you have this attitude, and that your employers allow you to "swap off" your shifts because they don't suit you....you are paid by them to do a job and should do it, not moan and pick and choose to suit you.

Neil:)

I work 8am-4pm on call from 4pm to 8am the following day I generally work 5 days a week but often 6. I get called out of my bed frequently in the small hours and I often land up doing night shifts and all sorts of things. I am in a job were safety is an even more critical part of my job than it is for Cabin Crew. I would be sacked if I told my superiors I was not going to do my duties as prescribed and I would also not quibble about relieving others of their position if they said the same to me as their direct line manager.

I would hate to have to work all the different time zones that cabin crew do but putting things back in to prospective. We are talking about a specific short transatlantic flight of approx 6hrs and 30mins then a rest period of 20 hours then a return flight and 48 hours off. And time zone or no time zone I am sure you will sleep in N.Y before your return.

I canÕt comprehend the fact that you can refuse to do a sector as said in your first post. I am sure that you would not get away with changing your rota each time you were allocated this flight.

But all being said I would if I were Mr B still like to think my staff had plenty of R+R before they fly, to keep them looking fresh as a daisy.

But I am not him and he or his company obviously believe that it is safe to make the changes to the scheduled flight returns and therefore you should be able to comply with what is reasonable/legal.


Cheers wayne

Originally posted by virgin is the best
I am not saying I will leave my job just saying that I am not doing those trips. I will swap off them. With other crew or crewing themselves.

VS employ CC for safety that is our primary job role sure customer service is a big part but safety would and will always come first. Tired CC will affect Customer service and Safety.

A 9-5 job is not the same as a CC job. Do you have time differnace to deal with everytime you go to work? Thats a big part of making people tired.

I have every sympathy with CC - long days, time zone changes making R&R difficult and all. I also have sympathy with myself, I've just done six 18 hr days, time zone changes and five flights (from 1 to 10 hrs).

At the end of the day we all have choices - if CC think these changes are too much then they'll leave (I'd assume) since they think the pain/reward balance has shifted to much.

If there is an effect on customer service then I think we, and other V-Flyers will point this out - but sorry, while I sympathise, I don't think it's the worst thing in the working world.

To put in my 2 cents. People are different. You can argue that given the job some people are doing they should expect to work certain unsocialable hours. HOWEVER, as I have said people are different. Some companies will try to squeeze their employers to ensure maximum profitibility but it should be the RIGHT of employee to decide if they wish to accept this squeezing or whether to kick back. That kick back can be letting of steam by telling people, or it could be through 'going on the sick', it could be resigning, it could be sueing.

I don't think we should sit here and either condone or condemn an action that we do not know the full circumstances of.

Personally I would prefer the crew and particularly the pilots are well rested.

In conclusion, VITB you should do what you feel is right. If you want to make a stand, go ahead. 1 person does make a difference. If you just want to let off steam, again go ahead. PM me if you just want a rant! Or if you do accept this and go with it then so be it.

All the best, whatever you decide.

Paul