Cancelled A340-600 Orders

I see that a couple of A340-600 originally destined for VS are now heading to LH. It looks like just G-VBUG (msn 804), the first of the higher gross weight aircraft, will be the last delivery for a while as msn 846 (G-VJAM) & 848 (G-VLUV) are now going to Lufthansa.

[Nottingham Nick]

Thanks for that Denzil. [y]

It is a surprise to me. Was this expected? Any rumours / reasons behind it?

Nick

[Bazz]

Big surprise here too? Anything else you can share with us Denzil?

So will these registrations be simply shifted, or will G-VFUN still be delivered in December?

I did expect this and mentioned it in some thread but I can't find it now. However, this was only just going round the rumour mill at the time and I did not know how much truth in it.

VS.

Apart from G-VSUN returning to us from Virgin Nigeria soon G-VBUG will be the last new aircraft delivered for some time.

I think that this is a bad decision unless VS are getting a/c from somewhere else this summer because remember that VS are starting 3 new routes this year and the turn around of a/c for routes is very tight at the minute anyway

Originally posted by virgin crazy
I think that this is a bad decision unless VS are getting a/c from somewhere else this summer

Yes they are currently flying around in the livery of BMI at the moment [:w] [:w]

In all honesty it is a bit of a surprise and has slipped out very quietly- no chat about it on a.net etc.

I was under the impression that both 343s at VK are being returned/have been returned- if that is true VS still have the same number of a/c they would have had before the cancelation of the 2 346X, all be it with a lot less seats.

Originally posted by willd.Yes they are currently flying around in the livery of BMI at the moment [:w] [:w]

In all honesty it is a bit of a surprise and has slipped out very quietly- no chat about it on a.net etc.

So is this the probable reasoning for the stealthy removal of the 4 engines 4 long haul stickers off the V/S Fleet?


{edited by bazz to make quote show correctly}

Originally posted by jerseyboy


So is this the probable reasoning for the stealthy removal of the 4 engines 4 long haul stickers off the V/S Fleet?

Yes I would think so- still to be decided if VS will order its own 330's or will take over BD and get theirs or do both! If they take over BD then the 330's will be used to expand MAN. If we dont then I could see 330's being used to provide cover to some popular LHR routes and used to expand onto new B+S routes. I would imagine an announcement over next year to 18months.

Given BD's move into the more medium haul markets with the takeover of BMed I would think BD becomes more tempting everyday to VS.

Originally posted by willd

I was under the impression that both 343s at VK are being returned/have been returned- if that is true VS still have the same number of a/c they would have had before the cancelation of the 2 346X, all be it with a lot less seats.

And a lot less expense...

I cannot imagine them returning without UCS. Surely they will get the W seating at the same time?? Certainly makes sense that they do.

Might make the 343's slightly more appealing than what they currently are...

LOS-LGW-LOS is being operated by the BMI 332 currently. Anyone know where BUS and SUN are at present?

BUS left the VK fleet 12 days ago and is not returning to VS, but I am under the impression that we will see SUN back at VS.

VS.

Well, if SUN does come back to VS i hope the fit the suite.

And the new W and Y seats along with V:PORT and a pain job!

Originally posted by VS045
BUS left the VK fleet 12 days ago and is not returning to VS, but I am under the impression that we will see SUN back at VS.

VS.

Ahh yes I forgot she had gone to Air Comet and looking great in her new colours.

VS to buy BMi is a rubbish rumour, SMB still intent on running & expanding so why would he sell up & how do you know VS could afford it!!!!!

Not that I want ot turn this into a VS/BMI thread, but I'm with Denzil on this one - I can't see it happening anytime soon if at all. I certainly don't think that it's on the cards at the moment.

VS.

BMI merger rumours aside, it is an intriguing development.

ISTBC but my understanding is that when the additional A340-600 order was made, it was done so on the understanding of relatively rapid continued expansion. If the expansion was slower than expected, then the agreement was that Virgin would be able to return the A340-300s to Airbus as the -600s were delivered, and the fleet could be replaced as opposed to expanded further.

However, the extra daily IAD flight (which was very suprising to hear) and a Nairobi flight which was also not on most spectator's radar, appear to be flights that have been introduced to make use of (less than prime) slots and aircraft, rather than be the most potentially profitable new routes to deploy the airline's assets on. I am guessing that neither the new IAD service, nor Nairobi in the short term, could be anywhere near profitable with the A340-600, hence the decision to keep the -300 fleet, rather than replace it with more -600 models.

I certainly wouldn't be suprised if the 2nd daily IAD flight did not return in S08, as the 2nd daily flight combination to BOS/EWR/IAD that was flown during the summer season several years ago was a one off.

Virgin (aside from potential BMI purchases) can only wait until T5 comes online and the respective terminal (& stand) capacity increase allows additional slots at better times to be released.

Cheers
AF

Originally posted by AtlanticFlyer
I certainly wouldn't be suprised if the 2nd daily IAD flight did not return in S08, as the 2nd daily flight combination to BOS/EWR/IAD that was flown during the summer season several years ago was a one off.

EWR still has two VS flights....

Originally posted by Denzil
VS to buy BMi is a rubbish rumour, SMB still intent on running & expanding so why would he sell up & how do you know VS could afford it!!!!!

I too was merely being rather tounge in cheek about it and wasnt also trying to turn into a BD merger thread. But it is probably true that if VS were to merge with anyone it would be BD that appeals and makes the most logical selection. Finance wise- remember how powerful SQ are in terms of money and in the *a. Plus SRB has in the past sold off companies to fund other ones. The reason why SQ have a 49% stake is because SRB needed the money to keep Virgin Megastore afloat at the time.

Originally posted by AtlanticFlyer

Virgin (aside from potential BMI purchases) can only wait until T5 comes online and the respective terminal (& stand) capacity increase allows additional slots at better times to be released.

NBO will be dependent upon how many seats VH can sell on it. Although I believe that the BA and Kenyan services are always full given the past links with the country etc.

I think you could well be correct- reading between the lines, there could well be no more expanision for the next 10months, which is about right when one considers that ORD, NBO, MRU are all starting then as well as 2nd daily IAD. Compared to last year this year has seen massive expansion already.

I do think this is odd, given that the A380 was initially scheduled to come around this time too. That means an even bigger hole in the expansion plans. Of course, this signifies that something is up - maybe a reconsideration of the growth strategy (after all, SRB did say that all the Airbus's, 346s and 380s, were being bought as part of an 'aggressive growth plan'), or a different plot ... we'll have to watch and wait.

I cant see this as being true. Nothing has been said internaly not even any rumours.

I think we are still getting them as planned.

Do you think they really tell you everything as VS staff members??? This kind of decision would be made at board level & if you're VS staff you'll have read SR's recent round up. Does it start to make sense???

AtlanticFlyer

Virgin (aside from potential BMI purchases) can only wait until T5 comes online and the respective terminal (& stand) capacity increase allows additional slots at better times to be released.

Whilst I wish it were as simple as this, the main problem at LHR is runway capacity. We are at around 95-98% capacity at the moment with the slack being at times that aren't profitable to fly. The quickest way for Virgin to expand would be to buy BMI and kill off the poor routes so they can use the free slots to expand their long haul network, whilst using the profitable short haul routes to feed onto the long haul network.

Or they could follow BA's strategy, to pay airlines to move out to Gatwick and then buy their runway slots, which they've done with quite a few european short haul carriers, most recently Malev.
Indeed, this is the only way BA are able to expand their number of flights in/out of heathrow.

Whilst stand availability is an issue it's nowhere near as important or critical as runway slots.

Denzil, you say that these orders have have been cancelled but weren't you saying a few months backs that Virgin were going to place an order for A330's. So what's changed?