Open Skies- all change for LGW?!?

There has been a lot of chatter on other networks about LGW being changed forever following the Open Skies agreement between the EU and US. The feeling is that LGW will now really become an LCC/Charter airport with the big boys moving to LHR.

So far- changes that will come in next April include:

DL moving double dialy JFK to LHR
DL moving daily ATL to LHR
BA moving IAH, ATL and one other to LHR

It looks as if the likes of BA, US, NW, AA, CO and DL all went to move their services over to LHR- slots pending.

BA have brought enough slots of BD to be able to move all operations out of LGW. DL/CO/NW can get slots off AF/KLM for LHR as can US off LH say.

So thoughts please.....is this the end of Long Haul American operations from LGW? How will VS react? How will this shape alliances? Or will we be left with Floridian and Carribean routes all flown from LGW by BA/VS and the others all moving out?

[mitchja]

I can't see VS moving any operations to LHR as I dont think they have any spare slots left there now.

I was kinda' hoping that if and when VS re-launch their YYZ service, that would move to LHR, but I can't see that happening now.

Could there be some VS flights they could move from LHR to swap things round a bit I wonder? MIA spings to mind, after all MIA did original depart from LGW and not LHR.

There's always the other possibility that things get swapped around with MAN as well?

Regards

Lots of VS flights have operated from LGW at some stage. LAX in the early days....more recently SFO, BOS, MIA, LOS.

I cant really see what VS would move over to LGW to be honest- NBO maybe when it starts as the route will have a lot of VH pax to Mobassa I guess.

Interesting EY are also pulling out of LGW.

It will be a long while before LGW sees all long-haul ops transfer to LHR for good, because of the three S'

Slots, slots, slots!!!

[buns]

As someone who lives only some 15 minutes from LGW, I would welcome VS taking up any spare capcity there and providing even more destintations[:w][:w]

BTW I have noticed the Mauritius flight takes off at 17.30 from LGW, this might mean longer opening hours for the Clubhouse there.


buns

[Pete]

The issue of LHR vs LGW is pretty complex, and although slots is probably the biggest problem for anyone at Heathrow (well, except BA maybe), historically there's also the Bermuda II agreement that means only Baltimore, Boston, Chicago O'Hare, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, Miami, New York-JFK, Newark, Philadelphia, Phoenix, San Francisco, Seattle, and Washington-Dulles can be served directly from Heathrow. Flights from London to Atlanta, Dallas/Fort Worth and Houston must use Gatwick. London used to mean any of the London airports, but there was a relaxation applied to Luton and Stansted in 1995 as part of a barter deal to allow BA to code share with US Air. Enter Maxjet, EOS, etc to Stanstead.

Landing fees at Heathrow are rising fast. Gatwick has pretty tight controls, but Heathrow has been allowed to increase at inflation plus 6.5% to cope with the development work - meaning they'll be £8.23 per passenger when T5 opens in 2008, making them about a third higher than Gatwick.

Obviously, however, Heathrow is the preferred airport of the business traveler, and for that lucrative market a couple of quid landing fees probably isn't a factor. If the core market is leisure, then saving money is possibly more important - and hence the polarisation between Gatwick and Heathrow that we see today is partly enforced by Bermuda II, and partly the natural order of things.

All things being equal, and if Virgin had all the slots it needed after Open Skies removes any restrictions of Bermuda II, it would make an awful lot of commercial sense for Virgin to consolidate all its London operations in one place - and Heathrow is the obvious choice to capture the business market. However, unless they acquire bmi's huge stack of slots, it's not an option for them any time soon.

Pete

Originally posted by Pete

Most excellent analysis of the current situation Pete- have never seen it all written so clearly. [^][oo]


The agreement of B2 goes further:

Only US Carriers can serve: ANC, ATL, BOS, CLT, CHI, CVG, CLE, DFW, DTT, HOU, LAX, MIA, MSP, NYC, PHL, PIT, SFO, SEA, STL, WAS

Only UK Carriers can serve: ATL, BOS, CLT, CHI, DFW, DEN, DTT, HOU, LAS, LAX, MIA, NYC, ORL, PHL, PHX, PIT, SAN, SFO, SEA, TPA, WAS.

ONLY the following cities may be served from Heathrow : ANC, BWI, BOS, CHI, DTT, LAX, MIA, MSP, NYC, PHL, SFO, SEA, WAS

PIT/LAS werent on the original B2 but were introduced in the mid 90's. Other approved B2 cities are FLL, HNL, MKC, PDX, MSY but if used they must be switched with another airport.

Any US city may be served from any other UK airport (including STN) with no restrictions.


I beleive there maybe further restrictions as well- although I cant find a link- that say that if another carrier joins a route (such as LHR-BWI) then BA most move that service to LGW. This only happens on certain routes such as BWI, PHX.

ORL = MCO

Sorry to be splitting hairs here

Originally posted by VS075
ORL = MCO

Sorry to be splitting hairs here

[:p] Haha well no not technically- when B2 was written ORL was the main airport of Orlando- McCoy Air Base was then opened up to commercial flights and the code wasnt transfered.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by VS075

ORL = MCO

Sorry to be splitting hairs here

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Haha well no not technically- when B2 was written ORL was the main airport of Orlando- McCoy Air Base was then opened up to commercial flights and the code wasnt transfered.

Oh dear...anoraks on guys;)

45.