Virgin to order more large aircraft

Read on a.net, apparently Virgin have issued a new RFP for up to 10 more either A380s or 748s to replace the LGW fleet.

Wow!

Link here


I can't make sense of whether this is additional to the deferred 6 A380s or extra ????

PS corrected the link

Ooo.. exciting! But to be in service by 2012, it'll have to be 748s surely?

Begging your pardons, this is in addition to the 6 deferred A380s which presumably are aimed for the LHR fleet ...

The report is misleading, as they say they have not decided Airbus or Boeing, and say they want to deploy them for the 2012 Olympics, but the existing order of A380's will not arrive until 2013.

So how can they order more A380's and get them into service before the the 2013 date given for the earlier orders ?

I'm a little confused on this.

If this "is" for the lgw fleet its GREAT news [y][y]

David

Originally posted by ukcobra
The report is misleading, as they say they have not decided Airbus or Boeing, and say they want to deploy them for the 2012 Olympics, but the existing order of A380's will not arrive until 2013.

So how can they order more A380's and get them into service before the the 2013 date given for the earlier orders ?

I'm a little confused on this.

Airbus may have delivery slots earlier, just that Virgin chose not to take them and to bring the current order forward then order additional planes may cost them more. Don't forget, VS shot themselves in the foot by deferring the order for the original 380s before Airbus announced its long delay, so VS missed on compensation. On a.net ther are lots of juicy comments about whether VS is playing PR games on this whole issue now that BA is likely to have 380s in time for the Olympics!

[mitchja]

My only concern is what are VS going to do between now and the delivery of their 787's and A380's [:?]

There's at least a 3 year gap now until VS get any more new A/C.

Will expansion plans be put on hold until then as I can't imagine there's much room for expansion with the existing fleet [:?]

Regards

I agree with you Mitcha, the fleet are already stretched to the limits and with 2 new routes starting in two weeks I can see big delays for some flights.

Interesting stuff & contradicts defering A346 & A380 delivery in the past. Open Skies are going to really put pressure on VS, major players are going to want a piece of the action, so i guess making the most of other routes would make sense!!!

One comment on airliners did make me laugh about VS trying to compete with BA's fleet size & they also previously compared the buying power of VS with the likes of EK. They are just not in the same league.

Originally posted by mitchja
My only concern is what are VS going to do between now and the delivery of their 787's and A380's [:?]

There's at least a 3 year gap now until VS get any more new A/C.

Will expansion plans be put on hold until then as I can't imagine there's much room for expansion with the existing fleet [:?]

Did you see the comment on a.net about VS scouting around for A319s to reconfigure for Europe-US operations? That sounds wacky!

Hang on guys,[:?] Did we not recently here from S.R.B that V.S will no longer order four engine gas guzzlers and instead go for the more environmentally 2 engine N/G aircraft [?].

That should rule out both the 748 and A380, perhaps we might see some 777's and A330's

Cheers
Jerseyboy

Great news for VS.

I think the a319s are a real possibility as well- as we are discussing in the Open Skies thread on the general forum.

Originally posted by jerseyboy
Hang on guys,[:?] Did we not recently here from S.R.B that V.S will no longer order four engine gas guzzlers and instead go for the more environmentally 2 engine N/G aircraft [?].

That should rule out both the 748 and A380, perhaps we might see some 777's and A330's

Cheers
Jerseyboy

Yep, you right with that - SRB spin at it's best I think.

In reality though I cannot see how VS can afford to made a reduction in the number of seats available on LGW/MAN routes.

There isn't a twin on the market which VS can buy that offers anywhere near the amount of seating a 744 offers before 2012.

The order has to be for 748's for my money. Cannot see the likes of most caribbean airports being able to accept A380's anytime in the next few years. Also, Boeing are struggling to shift 748's - I bet a fairly attractive financial package is waiting at Seattle for a 748 order.

Did we not recently here from S.R.B that V.S will no longer order four engine gas guzzlers and instead go for the more environmentally 2 engine N/G aircraft .

and before that did we not hear "4 engines 4 long haul?"...

45.

Originally posted by tallprawn

Originally posted by jerseyboy
Hang on guys,[:?] Did we not recently here from S.R.B that V.S will no longer order four engine gas guzzlers

Yep, you right with that - SRB spin at it's best I think.

In reality though I cannot see how VS can afford to made a reduction in the number of seats available on LGW/MAN routes.

There isn't a twin on the market which VS can buy that offers anywhere near the amount of seating a 744 offers before 2012.

I just hate this type of spin.
Look at me Mr Green.[:$] well for today at least.
Me thinks S.R.B changes colour more often that the HULK.

Jerseyboy

[Scrooge]

Didn't he say they would only use 4 engined aircraft where they had to ?

Originally posted by tallprawn


There isn't a twin on the market which VS can buy that offers anywhere near the amount of seating a 744 offers before 2012.

Not sure on the waiting list but I believe a 773er will go close to that of a 744 hence the likes of AF/SQ/NK all using them to replace 744s.

The order has to be for 748's for my money. Cannot see the likes of most caribbean airports being able to accept A380's anytime in the next few years. Also, Boeing are struggling to shift 748's - I bet a fairly attractive financial package is waiting at Seattle for a 748 order.

My thoughts exactly- I would much prefere to see VS going for the 773er tbh. LAS and MCO will have no problem with the 380 but cant really seeing it going down to well in Greneda.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by tallprawn


There isn't a twin on the market which VS can buy that offers anywhere near the amount of seating a 744 offers before 2012.

The 773 can hold well over 300

True, 773ER is the only option close - But it still must be 70-100 seats shy of current capacity..

Chances of getting delivery slots before 2012 - Slim at best???

There is no mention of the B777 in any of this, just the B747-8 & A380. I think more going on behind the scenes here, everybody know that the 5 B744's at LGW with the Thales IFE system are in trouble (old system & no parts available). If an order was made for new aircraft, to replace the older B744's & a selection is made for an IFE system (and EX2 would be the first choice), a sweetener would be a retrofit to replace the Thales system.

Originally posted by Denzil
a sweetener would be a retrofit to replace the Thales system.

here's hoping [y]

David

Originally posted by Scrooge

Originally posted by tallprawn


There isn't a twin on the market which VS can buy that offers anywhere near the amount of seating a 744 offers before 2012.

The 773 can hold well over 300

And some of the LGW 744s have 451 seats!

Some of the Caribbean airports may require a bit of concrete, but since many were originally built by the US military in case they were needed they have pretty strong runways, and basically they park them and you walk off, no jet bridges etc. ... so my money is on the 380. Even VS with all its turns, spin and PR may find running four types of aircraft (787, 346, 748 and 380) plus potentially a 319 too much effort.

If VS is going for a long term investment, my money would be on the 380 as I can't see yet another type joining the fleet.

If the airline just wants a fairly temporary, quick-fix solution, I'd say the 748, given the good deal VS would probably be able to secure.

45.

Originally posted by Denzil
There is no mention of the B777 in any of this, just the B747-8 & A380.

We know that it was just that Jersey said ordering either of the 748 or 380 would contradict SRB's big blurb the other month about 2 engines being more environementally friendly. the 777 was used to show that they could go for 2 engined jet if they wished all be it with a little less pax capacity.

I think more going on behind the scenes here, everybody know that the 5 B744's at LGW with the Thales IFE system are in trouble (old system & no parts available).

Is the Thales system not what AZ has in its 777s?!

There was a thread on here a couple of months ago about VS looking at the Panasonic system that FCA and DL have installed. Is that Ex 2?

Originally posted by VS045

I would agree with you- the airline has only really ever operated two types of a/c. But having said that the 748 must have similar points to the 744 so therefore VS have all the infrastructure in place to deal with them.

Will be interesting to see which way this goes really- surely no further orders for the 380 will be a kick in the teeth for airbus who view (or did pre 787 order) VS as being rather pro them.

Originally posted by willd


Is the Thales system not what AZ has in its 777s?!

That would make sense, the 744s being talked about (I think) are the ones VS grabbed up from a cancelled AZ order.

I personally believe the 748 is more likely here. To me it wouldn't make sense for VS to order more A380s when they just deferred its other orders last year to 2013. If they really wanted A380s for LGW by 2012 then VS wouldn't have deferred the order. It seems likely with the lack of 748 customers that VS would get a really good deal on those as well.[:?]