Cabin Crew Pay Update *2nd NOV*

Originally posted by Denzil
So 'Just like the miners, just like the Rover workers, the end justifies the death of the industry/company' doesn't sound like one of AlanA's lines?? Though i'd guess as an ex military man you would just do as your told???

Getting your forums mixed are we Denzil?
What is the relavence of your posting to this forums comments?
For those of you who are not aware of what Denzil is trying to say, I did post on PPrune when another of the militants decided that the means justifies the end and equated the strike action to the Americans using the A bomb, i.e. Kill the company to get your way.

If you wish to make it personal Denzil, please do continue, I am sure it makes you happy in some way.

I think everyone needs to go to a quiet place in South Warwickshire and relax. Play nice now. Be sweet!

GJ

Originally posted by AlanA

Originally posted by Denzil
So 'Just like the miners, just like the Rover workers, the end justifies the death of the industry/company' doesn't sound like one of AlanA's lines?? Though i'd guess as an ex military man you would just do as your told???

Getting your forums mixed are we Denzil?
What is the relevance of your posting to this forums comments?
For those of you who are not aware of what Denzil is trying to say, I did post on PPrune when another of the militants decided that the means justifies the end and equated the strike action to the Americans using the A bomb, i.e. Kill the company to get your way.

If you wish to make it personal Denzil, please do continue, I am sure it makes you happy in some way.

I read the post you refer to on PPrune in a different light AlanA. I interpreted it as the A-bomb as a last resort, similar to striking, not to kill the company as you see it.

I dont perceive that poster as militant either, they have always offered constructive argument, stated what they are looking for. She is however in favour of strike action if the offer is not improved so does that instantly means she is militant ? [:?]

[Darren Wheeler]

I'm begining to think this thread has now run its course and needs locking down - too many insults and personal attacks flying around.

Perhaps a new, restricted thread should be started and only updated by the Mods when an announcement is made about the offer/strike action, if and when it happens???

[RichardMannion]

Originally posted by Voice_of_reason

I read the post you refer to on PPrune in a different light AlanA. I interpreted it as the A-bomb as a last resort, similar to striking, not to kill the company as you see it.

I dont perceive that poster as militant either, they have always offered constructive argument, stated what they are looking for. She is however in favour of strike action if the offer is not improved so does that instantly means she is militant ? [:?]

I for one (taking mod hat off briefly) still cringe every time I see you post as 'Voice of Reason', I fail to see how your views have represented reason at all. In all honesty, I'm still trying to work out what the OP and subsequent crew actually wanted from this whole topic; way I see it is that you came to the site (along with other high profile sites) with your views as crew and how hard done by you were and that you deserved more. Problem is that it wasn't universal sympathy directed back towards the crew as a whole, for many valid reasons on our part.

In a nutshell, I can only see one reason why crew would want to wash this 'dirty laundry' on a public site, that is predomiantly customers - to stir up issues and cause problems further down the line. You'd never catch me discussing my pay deal in public, and never whinge publically about my employer and how hard done by we are. I'm still in awe that this issue has got to this many pages. In mnay regards, many people here feel less so about the crew after some of the posts we have seen here; it hasn't been helped that some of the vocal, militant people from other high-profile sites have come over to this customer forum (that is highly regarded as a Pro-VS site) and have posted such negative comments about customers under a number of aliases.

I'm for you as crew getting a fair deal, but one must understand the definition of a 'fair' deal in todays airline climate. I'm sick of seeing 'BA earn £10k more than us' etc. Are we comparing apples with apples, are the packages (not just pay, total benefits include flexibility to swap shifts, holiday, standby etc) the same? Balance it all out, I know I can earn double or more what I do now if I went elsewhere but they would want their moneys worth and I wouldn't have the flexibility I have now. It reminds me of when people try and compare Flying Club to other programs; well the other program does this and Flying Club must be crap because it doesn't - no because you can't pick and choose the components to compare, you have to compare lock stock. You could always reveal what %age increases you have had over the last 3 year pay deal. I think most people would be livid as they got nowhere near that - just like your 'only getting 4.8% with this current offer (in the first year!), the vast majority of people here didn't get that.

Yeah, If I could change my name I would - but I dont do multiple posts on one site, not my style feel free to rename me to something else if you like, change it to my initials VOR if you want mod.

As for why I came here, well I found the thread and decided to show you exactly what the offers were that were being talked about, I didn't get involved until the thread was well established.

I have made a few posts, not many though as you say this is a pax/customer forum not a crew forum.

As for those who have come here and bad mouthed passengers shame on them, I dont think I have, I have however had a difference of opinion (the safety thing) but that is what debate and a forum is for ?

The companies last memo to crew is asking us to keep it in house, i.e. they dont want it openly discussed on fora about the potential of a strike, that makes sense.

Only reason for post today was in response to AlanA

G-night
x

[^][^][^] Here, here, Your Grace! [^][^][^]

And I'm with Darren Fletcherwheeler. This thread has achieved a few good things, but it really is time for it to die with what little dignity it has left. Whilst a few have posted some amazingly insightful and compelling thoughts (on both sides of the argument!), the already ignorant have only managed to amplify their silliness to a degree that defies belief (on both sides of the argument!).

Right now, when I look at this thread, I see this, and frankly, it ain't pretty.

I beg the mods, please suspend this folderol until a strike vote is called, executed and the result is announced. Otherwise, this site, like other airline fora, will merely continue its descent into becoming a barnyard pecking party.

GJ

PS -- I got us to 38!!! [ii]

I have had some input in to this thread and having just returned from my trip onthe apparantly dreaded MCO route and in the spirit of honesty and fairplay I would like to say that both outbound and inbound UCS flights were nothing short of perfect both in respect to service given and product.

I am still dismayed by some of the things that have been intimated re customers on this thread but the above apreciation for my last flights needed to be mentioned also.

[Decker]

Good news EGG

Thank you for the feedback EGG. I have done a few MCO's over the past few weeks (I really don't mind them) and received 2 x Hero's forms from PAX. 1 of them was from an economy passenger and I had only gone down the back to help out for all of 20mins!! Very nice to be appreciated from time to time.

Can I ask what Hero forms are. I always like to show appreciation.

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by maz
Can I ask what Hero forms are. I always like to show appreciation.

maz

See this thread.

Nick

You can just ask one of the crew for a feedback/Heros form. They are kept in the FSM's flight bag usually.

[mitchja]

That's the problem with on-board Heroes forms...the vast majority of pax have no idea they even exist.

I always fill one in when credit is due for good on-board service.

Regards

[Decker]

Ditto. Though always feel bad when the person I ask for the form isn't the nominee.

Decker you can always ask the 'black shirted' FSM. They are bound to be around somewhere, can't get off until after you!

[Decker]

FB - don't always feel good hunting them down, 'specially when they seem to be stuck in crew assessments/paperwork. I try to respect the closed curtain hint.

[RichardMannion]

I'd rather do my nominations online, that way I know they get there:

myvirginhero.com

Some of the x-plane passenger surveys have been known to go missing, so hence my desire to submit my positive feedback myself. Also worth remembering that Heros is not just for crew, it is for anyone at Virgin that you believe has delivered above and beyond service, so it could be a member of ground staff, someone in the CH, a reservations agent etc.

Thanks for the replies. I didn't know about the hero forms so imagine most passengers have no idea.

Originally posted by Decker
FB - don't always feel good hunting them down, 'specially when they seem to be stuck in crew assessments/paperwork. I try to respect the closed curtain hint.

Ahhh, that's OK but it's no excuse for a closed curtain throughout a whole flight as happened on the way over to JFK On Wednesday. I do think a FSM could make an effort to say hello to at least a few people, may be even appear for 30 mins on a 7 hr flight? To often I see a FSM doing something at the start and the end that is entirely not directly passenger interfacing, then disappear! It is on these flights that I find the service varies most!

[Decker]

You said it a lot more directly than I [;)]

Any further news on the 'strike'? It's gone very quiet [:?] Keeping everything crossed my flight on 2nd December is OK.

Clare

[Nottingham Nick]

According to a post on cc.com the ballot papers should have been received by members today.

I have no idea what timetable they are planning -if a mandate for industrial action is returned, but I would doubt that it will be in place by 2nd December. That is only a fortnight away.

Nick

Thanks Nick.

Unite have confirmed all member details and advised Virgin Atlantic that crews will be balloted on 3rd with result on 20th December.