Cabin Crew Pay Update *2nd NOV*

Surely if the percentages are low on rejecting the pay deal, then these folks are obviously very unhappy working for the airline. At the sake of ruining for what most crew enjoy as a job, why dont these people move to another job, where they will be more satisfied. This really is a 'you cant have your cake and eat it' dilemma. Companies will generally offer a fair deal in the interest of everyone in the business. Lets remember that other area's of the virgin business were not offered such a rise.

From my last 5 flights all the fab crew i have spoken to are totally against the strike, as they see it as damaging prospects for the future.

Hope its not a strike as it will ruin the vibe of the airline

No one wants any strike...looking at johnvscrews comment, when someone buys a ticket the carrier has an obligation to get the passenger from point A to point B. And no service or entertainment is in any contract.

Safety only duties? an alternative to a complete shutdown! No!! I wouldn't want to be on an aircraft of passengers who are not getting services... The majority of crew are more professional than to do only safety... Its not the Customers who should suffer.

To clarify why some people voted to accept the deal and are now thinking to vote for strike is because they believe in sticking together. If the threat of strike comes to nothing then the company will in theory feel in future issues they will be able to do what they want ! The company seem to be playing down the threat of real problems based on the numbers... hoping that if the same percentage strike then they still have enough to run the operation with minimum disruption.

However if everyone sticks together and those who voted to accept then they would not be able to do this ! The real issue is can they keep the yes voters onside in the next ballot?

I hope that a strike is averted and I will still hold my stand to be against any strike and cancel Union membership if it goes ahead.

[Pete]

Originally posted by milehigh

Safety only duties? an alternative to a complete shutdown! No!! I wouldn't want to be on an aircraft of passengers who are not getting services... The majority of crew are more professional than to do only safety... Its not the Customers who should suffer.

Could you imagine the air rage if the crew barricaded themselves in the galley and refused to deliver food or drink? Can't see that flight getting much beyond Prestwick before the first fist was flung.

yeah this is true, however would people if informed be more understanding than if their trip was cancelled altogether. i think in eaither case i wouldn't go with any industrial action. but if we did strike there would be fists flying in the terminal, suppose its better than on the plane lol. personally i just cant wait till all this is over and we can just get on with things without constant messages from both virgin management and the union.

[Scrooge]

Originally posted by flybird
YES from me

Originally posted by Pete
flybird, given your imminent departure from the airline, do you not think the best vote for you is to abstain? You're not going to be around to either benefit from, nor clear up the mess that would be caused by strike action.

Originally posted by flybird
Pete you might be right but going to vote yes anyway

Mod hat way off my head


So let me get this straight, you are leaving VS in the near future, but even so you feel the need to vote yes just so you can sit back and watch a train wreck happen.

You know there are some great crew members on here, a couple of belles come to mind, but if this is your stance then you are an idiot [:#]

i have to agree if you are leaving us then the future of the airline really has nothing to do with you. It would be like getting our passengers to vote on our pay. if you're leaving and just voting yes then this is rather spitefull and bitter.

I'm telling Decker!!!

GJ

Shame on you flybird. Not sure where your new job is, but I hope you're not working with the general public.

[Decker]

What exactly?

Originally posted by milehigh
when someone buys a ticket the carrier has an obligation to get the passenger from point A to point B. And no service or entertainment is in any contract.

Sorry but being a bit boring that is actually incorrect. In the vast majority of situations that happens but (and companies selling products forget this every day) the person buying is well within their statutory rights to negotiate on the contract prior to purchase.

I am not sure what is the CC contract but I am sure there must be some reference to giving a high level of service etc.

Originally posted by FLYBird

I am rather shocked by what you have said. I guess, if that is your attitude, maybe we should be happy your leaving VS!?!?

Sorry but while I am still with VS I have the right to vote. I will be supporting the crew who feel a strike would be a good thing so will be voting YES.

Thats YES TO STRIKE

VS crew are over being treated like crap by both the company and customers.

YES YES YES to strike!!!

Originally posted by Pete
Can't see that flight getting much beyond Prestwick before the first fist was flung.

I'd be pretty hacked off if my flight gets as far a Prestwick as we're headed south...or not, as the case may be.

Paul

Originally posted by flybird
Sorry but while I am still with VS I have the right to vote.

Of course you do Flybird and rights, of course, are the most important factor in deciding all matters - yes? . But, and here's a revolutionary idea, why not be guided by your moral responsibility rather than your rights.

FM

Moral responsibility to who FM?

Do you think anyone at Virgin head office think of their moral responsibilty to their employees (who have been screwed over for years)?

Originally posted by flybird
Moral responsibility to who FM?

Do you think anyone at Virgin head office think of their moral responsibility to their employees (who have been screwed over for years)?

To pax, perhaps? You know, us poor mugs who pay through the nose to get from A to B and really shouldn't have to be inconvenienced by your ill-thought-out, ignorant, misplaced militancy?

It's such a shame that there are people out there who think like you.

[Decker]

I'm back at my 'if crew genuinely believe after having thought it all through that the best option is to strike then I don't have a problem with them striking and even if I did it would be none of my business' position. I am a lot less comfortable with what I can only see as FlyBird's putative posturing as an agent provocateur but as he obviously doesn't care what risible impression he gives of himself by so doing so I find it hard to muster much indignation.

Originally posted by flybird
Moral responsibility to who FM?

Do you think anyone at Virgin head office think of their moral responsibilty to their employees (who have been screwed over for years)?

Yes, how DARE they pay you a salary eh?
Screwed you over because you have to work for them, that you cannot go anywhere else for a salary.
How dare they not pay you thousands of pounds more when you cannot do anything else but work for them
Truly awful isn't it. [:(!]

I have a question as I have just left a job that I had been for 10 years since leaving university where I was in a union in to a new job that doesn't have a union.

I assume that the shop stewards are Virgin CCs who take on the responsibility of the day to day queries for union members.

For pay negotiations, Do these shop stewards meet with senior 'managers' from Unite and agree a strategy for the negotiations and are these 'managers' from Unite, employees of VA?

Depending on the answer, I give you the reason for my question.

flybird - you make it sound as if you're railing against slavery. But you're not - you're talking about a situation where, if you do not like your job, you're free to leave and seek better alternatives. You are proof of this. And yet your language of oppression is therefore utterly misplaced. Indeed, you mock people under real affliction and tyranny by your ill-thought use of inappropriate epithets. As such, you appear like a spoiled adolescent who feels daddy has been nasty, and wants to rebel a bit. Good riddance to your bad rubbish. Your misplaced indignation is only matched by your overflowing idiocy. I cringe to imagine how you 'serve' the customers for whom you have such contempt; you provide a prime example of the sort of crew who are putting off long-term VS fans. Virgin Atlantic's mistake was not in limiting your pay rise, but in employing you and people like you in the first place.

Originally posted by frangipan
flybird - you make it sound as if you're railing against slavery. But you're not - you're talking about a situation where, if you do not like your job, you're free to leave and seek better alternatives. You are proof of this. And yet your language of oppression is therefore utterly misplaced. Indeed, you mock people under real affliction and tyranny by your ill-thought use of inappropriate epithets. As such, you appear like a spoiled adolescent who feels daddy has been nasty, and wants to rebel a bit. Good riddance to your bad rubbish. Your misplaced indignation is only matched by your overflowing idiocy. I cringe to imagine how you 'serve' the customers for whom you have such contempt; you provide a prime example of the sort of crew who are putting off long-term VS fans. Virgin Atlantic's mistake was not in limiting your pay rise, but in employing you and people like you in the first place.

[oo]

I am still shocked about some of the attiudes displayed on this thread some 40 pages in.

Actually I am always told I am a fantastic crew member, got 4 heros forms on one flight a few months ago.

Just fed up and angry with the company.

I'm signing off now and won't bother posting again. Waste of time.

frangipan - we aren't taught those big words in NZ going to have to look them up on wikipedia.

[Decker]

So 4 Heroes forms is your customers treating you like crap? I tended to view these as an expression of gratitude. By all means be angry with the company just try not to let it stop you thinking sensibly about what you commit to the internet.

Exactly, Decker. Flybird specifically issued a blanket attack against customers in a previous post, and not just the employers. To do this in a public forum, even anonymously, is way off the mark. I work in a public-facing position, and would never dream of having, yet alone displaying, such open hostility and contempt for my customers. Certainly, things can annoy us all, but to bite the hand that feeds you publicly is so much the wrong attitude that if it needs explaining, I really hope flybird's new job is far, far away from the paying public.

As for their not teaching you 'big words' in NZ - please do not belittle all of New Zealanders with your own illiteracy. A colleague with whom I work closely comes from New Zealand, and he is one of the most erudite, intelligent people whom I've known.

And flybird, thanks for wishing that my trip to the States this Christmas be cancelled. I am hoping to visit a sick relative; this could genuinely be the last time I see them. You see, it's not all 'Businessmen in Their Suits and Ties' (to quote This Morning With Richard Not Judy - anyone remember that?

If flybird has problems with frangipan's 'big words' I dare say Decker's post must have left him/her with a head spinning to rival a planet's orbit. Decker said 'risible' -- surely the winner in this 41-page contretemps?

I think flybird is way off-base, but can we all try to not use terms like 'idiot' in describing people? Peoples' arguments may not be appealing to us, but perhaps we've all felt passionately about a topic and been in the minority -- it doesn't necessarily make us 'idiots.' I'd hate to think that because I argued strongly (or, in the eyes of some, wrongly or clumsily) for my position that it made me an 'idiot' or something similar.

I can reveal that I have been, since a young child, submitted to a battery of tests that appear to suggest I am not an idiot, so I would be mightily offended if someone tried to use that word to describe what my argument 'made' me. Perhaps, it's skating close to the edge to call an argument idiotic, but surely it is over the line to call someone an idiot outright, whether we agree or disagree with the tone or substance of their comments here?

Now, I'm sure there's some clever lexicographer who can outline a protean rebuttal to my simple plea, but if it's really OK to start using such language -- even against someone most of us disagree with -- then we're on a slippery slope. Maybe it's not an 'ad hominem' in pure fact, but it seems to fly (hee hee) against the spirit of these fora. It certainly flies against the latitude I've been given in the past in my word choice! [:p]

GJ

[Decker]

A plangent plea perfectly pled.