Virgin Atlantic strike announced

Originally posted by VS075

Originally posted by virgin is the best
I just want to say sorry to all our customers on here who are loyal to Virgin. I voted no to strike and yes to the last offer. I am sorry that some of your plans may have had to change because of some of the selfish cabin crew I work with. It's not only affecting them now it's affecting the whole company and all our customers. How can the law protect people who refuse to do the job they are paid to do. They should all be sacked. The Airline would be much better off with out them. I will be flying on strike days.

I for one appreciate how you care for your customers (even though I haven't been on any of your flights your apology says it all) and your intentions to go to work on the strike dates, but sadly now that there is a strike the damage has been done (by your colleagues who voted to strike) and on the day I wouldn't mind predicting even more damage being done.

However...

I wouldn't go as far as saying that the crew who voted to strike should be sacked for reasons discussed to death in the now locked original thread. You can disagree with them sure, but they (and yourself) were given the right to vote to strike and they chose to do so (if you think this is bad take a look at France!!!). Whether you like it or not the law is there to allow this (a lawyer/solicitor will be able to explain all of this to you) and yes I can understand how the law can allow for stuff that shouldn't really be allowed, but at the end of the day your colleagues are trying to get a fair deal from VS and they are doing every trick in the book to do this.

I accept that you disagree with their actions but what can you do to stop them? If you don't like them for it, leave VS and join another airline rather than wishing that Father Christmas gives them a Form P45 on Christmas Day because they've been bad by voting to strike, especially on a public forum. If a deal comes out as a result of a strike you should be thankful (I know I would) as you may just like the sound of the deal that is agreed (if any of course), and remember that on your next flight you could be working with crew who have voted to strike.

Some of the ones that justified and highlighted their militancy by insulting passengers and implying some on certain routes were less worthy of a paid for service than other routes deserve the boot in my opinion sorry, also the ones that sought to and hoped to do maximum damage to the company and maximum disruption to customers with a 'tuff luck' attitude to the passengers if they aired any concern. And a crash and burn attitude to the whole company and the rest of its staff who arn't part of the dispute.

Denzil I think your last post is a little too personal, the person you have directed it at made her/his? comments in 'general' not specific to a particular person and you don't work with these people.It looks a bit bullyish, which isn't like you.

Point taken (& post edited), but Mrs D was VERY offended by VITB's comments!!!! Who is VITB to say other crew members should be sacked for wanting better T & C's????

[Pete]

Originally posted by Voice_of_reason

Originally posted by Pete
. There is also the threat that after 12 weeks VS can dismiss all the striking workers.

Only if the company negotiate after industrial action has begun otherwise it is automatically unfair dismissal.

VoR

The company only need to show they have done as much as possible to negotiate. They are under no obligation to produce a revised offer. I think some staff are under the impression that VS have to get back around the negotiating table, and that simply isn't true.

[Pete]

Originally posted by Denzil
I'm sure VITB will be refusing any extra money that is made available through the action of the 'selfish' crew!!!

As I'm sure the striking crew will be digging into their own pockets to find the money they are causing the company to lose through their strike action.

I don't think that Virgin will be coming back with a revised offer. So I won't need to refuse the extra that is made available through the action of the selfish crew. That's not my point anyway. I don't think anyone person has the right to refuse to do a job that they are employed to do and if they do I think a company shoud be allowed to do what they need to do to ensure that the person/people are not allowed to damage the business again.
If I offended anyone I am sorry however think about all the customers around the world that have been offended because their travel plans may have to change. I am crew and I took the job on because I am a caring person. I want better T&C but not at the expence of the public who have kept me in a job for the last 7 years.
So yes the crew who will strike are selfish. As for me leaving the company no way. I should not be the one that is beong told to leave if I don't like it. I love my job and I love Virgin. I will be honest and say it will be hard for me to go back to work and work with people who have voted to strike but I am a pro and I will do my best not to let it get in the way.

I hope you all have a happy christmas.

A comment from Mrs D 'VITB i have worked for Virgin for a very long time and i can honestly say i have never found any of the crew selfish! I do find it very sad that you would want to work with people that you think are so selfish. I think everyone, you included, should stop slagging each other off. People have the right to feel that they are worth more, and everyone who works at Virgin deserves more!'

Sad to see Maxjet going bankrupt today. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7159286.stm

How many more airlines are going under?

Hope this does not indicate what could happen to VS.

Striking does nothing but damage to the company, VS, but its the only way VS will listen to the crew, really sad[:(!]

VS strike and they will be the first casualty of 2008, Maxjet was 2007...[V]

VS need to realise their best asset, is their people , look after them, without people you have nothing

This strike will do some real serious damage to VS reputation[:?]

[Pete]

Originally posted by Denzil
People have the right to feel that they are worth more, and everyone who works at Virgin deserves more!

It's no longer about whether a group of people deserve more money or not. Reports on cabincrew.com that IT project managers have had their contracts terminated and there is a recruitment freeze. Virgin are just trying to survive, and now people around the organisation will be wondering whether their job is safe.

The one thing that I really can't understand, is there's still no clear indication of what the crew want. The union don't appear to have made any effort to clarify what is an acceptable package, and it has been the union's lack of understanding on that issue that have seen the last three offers rejected, even when the union was recommending them. Even if Virgin was to get back around the table (which I doubt), who's to say they'd walk away with an offer which the crew wouldn't still reject?

Originally posted by Denzil
A comment from Mrs D 'VITB i have worked for Virgin for a very long time and i can honestly say i have never found any of the crew selfish! I do find it very sad that you would want to work with people that you think are so selfish. I think everyone, you included, should stop slagging each other off. People have the right to feel that they are worth more, and everyone who works at Virgin deserves more!'

EVERY person who works for a living thinks they deserve more.
However the realality is that everyone who works gets what the going rate is for their business and their company.
By taking industrial action after being offered more than many within the UK are getting is selfish.

This always strikes me as the cowards way out. instead of proving you are worth more by moving to another company (if they would have you) people choose to disrupt other peoples lives and holidays in this case to blackmail the company into giving more.

Originally posted by 747340
Striking does nothing but damage to the company, VS, but its the only way VS will listen to the crew, really sad[:(!]

VS strike and they will be the first casualty of 2008, Maxjet was 2007...[V]

VS need to realise their best asset, is their people , look after them, without people you have nothing

This strike will do some real serious damage to VS reputation[:?]

Sadly people have this misconception that a large employer 'needs' to realise this and 'needs' to realise that as if they took all the risks invested all their own cash and therefore have the right to dictate what a company should do or remember or realise.

Not so,

A companies prime concerns are its market, its place in the market and its bottom line ( otherwise why bother to take the risk in the first place. No employer should be told what to do by its workforce or anyone else that hasn't the cahones to set up in business themselves.

[Scrooge]

At this juncture it needs to be stated that this thread is here to give information about the pending strike, give information about flight cancellations and in general to provide relevant information that may aid travellers. Of course V-Flyer would not be V-Flyer if a thread did not wander a little off course every now and again, however we would ask that we all try and keep the thread civil.

Whilst we all are wish that the cabin crew and VS had been able to find a middle ground without the need to resort to strike action this was not to be. At this time the strike will happen, flights have been cancelled and plans disrupted.

In closing and in plain English the only thing I would add is to restate that we do not wish to stifle any discussion but civility by all is essential.

I don't think striking is the right thing to do, as many of you have said it does nothing but harm the company's reputation. However I do think that Virgin need to offer better pay to their staf.

At the end of the day Virgin are like most other employers and don't really give a s**t about their people because they have got thousands of people who are desperate to work for them.

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by djuluvmee
I don't think striking is the right thing to do, as many of you have said it does nothing but harm the company's reputation. However I do think that Virgin need to offer better pay to their staf.

At the end of the day Virgin are like most other employers and don't really give a s**t about their people because they have got thousands of people who are desperate to work for them.

Whether or not it's the right thing to do, the reality is that the strike has been called and unless some form of mediation such as ACAS are involved there will be no other offer on the table.

The rights and wrongs of the various offers have been debated to death on the long thread on the subject. The purpose of this thread is to give information about the forthcoming strikes for members of the public who may be affected and are anxious about their plans

What no-one seems to know is what is the next stage.
After the two days striking, when happens then?
More single day strikes? a week strike?

[Pete]

Originally posted by AlanA
What no-one seems to know is what is the next stage.
After the two days striking, when happens then?
More single day strikes? a week strike?

Assuming VS operate the schedule they have announced, I suspect Unite will need to call more strikes to have any impact. In my opinion, the failure of the initial action will mean support for the strike will fragment further, leaving only the hardcore militants standing outside T3 in the rain.

The only fly-in-the-ointment, is that the BAA strikes (if negotiations to resolve that don't go anywhere today), will have a negative impact on VS's delicate schedules, although I understand VS can claim back losses from BAA. It's all a bit unclear at the moment.

Pete,
I also think that the BAA strike will remove a lot of the publicity that the union would have had if the Virgin strike had been on its own.
The disruption caused by the BAA strikes will overshadow any problems with Virgin.
This also will have a demoralising effect on all but the hard core strikers.

Originally posted by honey lamb

Originally posted by djuluvmee
I don't think striking is the right thing to do, as many of you have said it does nothing but harm the company's reputation. However I do think that Virgin need to offer better pay to their staf.

At the end of the day Virgin are like most other employers and don't really give a s**t about their people because they have got thousands of people who are desperate to work for them.

Whether or not it's the right thing to do, the reality is that the strike has been called and unless some form of mediation such as ACAS are involved there will be no other offer on the table.

The rights and wrongs of the various offers have been debated to death on the long thread on the subject. The purpose of this thread is to give information about the forthcoming strikes for members of the public who may be affected and are anxious about their plans

Its true the rights and wrongs have been debated at length, but that thread has been closed and this one didn't really specify that it was a purely info based thread, just that the mammoth one was closed and this one opened.

People are quite rightly still going to have points of view both speculative and actual the situation is still news and fluid.

It may help people if this thread was made to be obviously a help/info thread about flights/routes/times affected etc and the other one re-opened, or a sticky made for actual info.

[Pete]

I think you're right, EGG. It's not possible to stifle opinion regarding the strike. We will, of course, ensure that discussions remain civil - no matter how robust the debate.

djuluvmee's comment that Virgin 'don't give a s**t about their people' is an example of crossing the line, methinks. It's an attack based on subjective opinion rather than objective reason. Let's not do the name-calling thing in this thread.

[honey lamb]

Originally posted by Pete
djuluvmee's comment that Virgin 'don't give a s**t about their people' is an example of crossing the line, methinks. It's an attack based on subjective opinion rather than objective reason. Let's not do the name-calling thing in this thread.

I think that's why I posted what I did. There had been enough of name calling on the original thread and I didn't want this to degenerate either

Originally posted by Pete
I think you're right, EGG. It's not possible to stifle opinion regarding the strike. We will, of course, ensure that discussions remain civil - no matter how robust the debate.

djuluvmee's comment that Virgin 'don't give a s**t about their people' is an example of crossing the line, methinks. It's an attack based on subjective opinion rather than objective reason. Let's not do the name-calling thing in this thread.

I agree, we don't want to get in to that type of territory, but it has to be said that anything on here is very mild compared to stuff on Prune and Cabin Crew, its sad to see the CC turning on each other and other groups that work for VA, I hope things don't get beyond repair.

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by easygoingeezer
It may help people if this thread was made to be obviously a help/info thread about flights/routes/times affected etc and the other one re-opened, or a sticky made for actual info.

I can see where you are coming from, Chris, but I think it is better if people rely on the official word from Virgin Atlantic.

The link is to their 'latest information' page, which I assume will be kept up to date with any developments as the days approach.

Any information posted here should always be sourced back to its originator, as we do not want to be a conduit for misinformation of any kind.

Nick

Originally posted by honey lamb

Originally posted by Pete
djuluvmee's comment that Virgin 'don't give a s**t about their people' is an example of crossing the line, methinks. It's an attack based on subjective opinion rather than objective reason. Let's not do the name-calling thing in this thread.

I think that's why I posted what I did. There had been enough of name calling on the original thread and I didn't want this to degenerate either

Good words!

Which is why I am trying to stay out of it, as I suspect are many others. Be great to see an objective and informative thread rather than a debate on the merits or not of striking. Even the Mods have their views on this methinks ... [:w]

So...

I've been wondering if there's any precedent of this kind of airline strike action actually resulting in change in favour of the crew?

I seem to remember BA crew striking 10 years ago or so, and perhaps led to then chief executive Robert Ayling being 'asked to leave' a year or two later, but did it change crew contracts/conditions? AF crew have gone on strike too.. did anything ultimately change for them either?

And didn't CX crew threaten to strike over medicals or something, but the airline effectively told them no they bleedin' wouldn't. So they didn't.

Be great to see an objective and informative thread rather than a debate on the merits or not of striking. Even the Mods have their views on this methinks ... [:w]

Well said. A similar thread on PPRuNe has degenerated into one big b*tching session, this one seems to be much more civilised.

Any info that might actually inform the customer would be very warmly received [y].