Shame, but I think their pricing structure was never going to be sustainable in today's climate with oil prices etc.
Always planning a trip somewhere!
Originally posted by clarkeysntfc
Shame, but I think their pricing structure was never going to be sustainable in today's climate with oil prices etc.
Does make you wonder which of the LCCs here will be first to buckle?
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Originally posted by clarkeysntfc
Shame, but I think their pricing structure was never going to be sustainable in today's climate with oil prices etc.
True but a thread on a.net earlier in the week highlighted that O8's prices were not that much different to the likes of VS in Y from London and CX in Y from YVR. There was something like £50 difference.
So in the space of ten days we have seen:
Aloha
ATA
Champion
Skybus
Oasis
Times really are tough and no wonder VS is getting a bit edgy at the moment.
With regard to UK LCC's I cant really see any of the major players (EZY, FR, BE, WW) going.
Cash flow problems account for far more business failrues than not being profitable, and i'd expect that is what happened here...
Always planning a trip somewhere!
US Skybus just went under as well -- an innovative venture to fly out of regional air force bases with $10-$30 seats....was successful enough to knock Southwest out in Greensboro and Columbus but couldn't handle the recession.
RR
RR
Roadrunner
Originally posted by McCoy
Is it just about money? Are these airlines going out of business purely because they're making a loss? Presumably internal structures have a lot to do with it? For example. what is it about FlyGlobespan that means it is still operating??
GSM has been helped greatly by the work of its sister/parent company Globespan travel agent/tour operator. IIRC, the Globespan Group PLC is one of the largest tour operators to Canada and also a very large travel agent in Scotland. This means it is to keep unprofitable parts of the company afloat. This is exactly what SRB does also- remember the selling of 49% of VS to SQ, well at that time it was in order to bring some much need liquidity into the Virgin Megastores which were struggling.
Originally posted by willd
Times really are tough and no wonder VS is getting a bit edgy at the moment.
Yep, I don't think the current things like review of IFBT services, as disheartening as they are, are knee jerk reactions from VS. I suspect they are part of a longer term plan to maintain some sort of survivability though the current climate.
Mike
Originally posted by clarkeysntfc
Cash flow problems account for far more business failrues than not being profitable, and i'd expect that is what happened here...
From what I have heard this was a major problem with them, it soon became clear that buying advance tickets was not needed as O* were constantly throwing sales, with only two routes and no long term cash flow the writing was on the wall with the way oil as shot up, a shame really as their product was pretty good from what I heard.
Also...there are now 5 744's sitting around..with RR engines, well maintained (ex SQ birds I think) could be got for a nice price probably, help out an airline that is having aircraft shortages...
Ok not so subtle...VS pick up one or two FFS....fly them on the LGW routes...who cares about those pax [:0]
Before anyone goes nuts..thats a joke..but a good chance none the less to pick up a couple of 744's [?]
Originally posted by Scrooge
Also...there are now 5 744's sitting around..with RR engines, well maintained (ex SQ birds I think) could be got for a nice price probably, help out an airline that is having aircraft shortages...
Ok not so subtle...VS pick up one or two FFS....fly them on the LGW routes...who cares about those pax [:0]
The two ex-SQ aircraft are P&W engined. The other three, ex-ANA are a better fit: GE CF6 engines, the same as the VS fleet, and ISTR already fitted with MAS 3000 IFE (i.e. the base platform for v:port).
Mike
Interesting to read in another article that Oasis bought the aircraft as leasing was proving difficult, same article say's that KPMG are hopeful of investment to keep Oasis as a going concern. With the current fuel prices, IFBT issues etc I think you'll find VS lack the funds to go & buy a couple of B744's!!
Originally posted by Scrooge
But Boeing doesn't
This was exactly my thinking when I said this in the first instance.
Boeing's leasing company pick up the airframes and dish them out on attractive terms to early 787 customers who already operate a compatible fleet.
Mike
Originally posted by mike-smashingOriginally posted by Scrooge
But Boeing doesn't
This was exactly my thinking when I said this in the first instance.
Boeing's leasing company pick up the airframes and dish them out on attractive terms to early 787 customers who already operate a compatible fleet.
Mike
Great minds and all that....though not the best replacement for the 788, it flies, it has seats, it will work in some form.
Originally posted by mike-smashingOriginally posted by Scrooge
But Boeing doesn't
This was exactly my thinking when I said this in the first instance.
Boeing's leasing company pick up the airframes and dish them out on attractive terms to early 787 customers who already operate a compatible fleet.
Mike
Couple of problems with that:
1. Airlines that are bringing in the 787 would prefer the 777 as an alternative as its more compatible with regards to being of similar density and better to use on routes destined for the 787.
2. The 330 is a much better stopgap measure to the 787 and QF/JQ have already announced they will be using the 330 as a stop gap.
3. The 767 would be a better option also as closer density wise.
So really to have the 744 as a stop gap meausre would be a fourth choice for most future 787 operators and would result in a lot of over capacity- not really good at a time when everyone is trying to cut costs.
Previously the leasing company has only really worked in part exchange deals, so SQ gave Boeing 343's in return for 77W's. Whilst in theory they could buy the planes am not sure how keen they will be to do that. I would imagine we are more than likley to see ILFC or some other major leasing company pick these boys up.
I would imagine we will end up seeing the a/c at someone like Transaero or Corsair.
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