LGW fleet refit - not now happening (18/6/08)

No PE is a very strong product (ex LHR) and when everything working IFE-wise a very good product, Dont forget first choice is pretty woeful for luggage, Virgin offer 2 x 32kg bags in PE pp. For a family of four thats a whole lot of weight! They fly to MCO so generally quicker to where you are staying in Orlando. As they are schedulled have more options if something goes belly up. But for £850 quid....tempting. oh yh i forgot earning miles with Virgin, i dont believe FC,Thomson etc do this.[y]

Originally posted by Ptarmigan

So, is it still worth the extra to fly Virgin if your not in UC???

Yes it is.

The PE product is really the best that is out there. Sure LGW doesn't have the fancy seats but IMHO it is alot better than the BA WT+ product.

As for First Choice, or should I say Thomson Airways as it will be called from January as a result of the First Choice/TUI merger, you firstly have to fly into Sanford which is poorly located and is often over stretched as its only realflights arrive in a very short time frame and all from the UK. Also debatable if the seats on FCA are newer, I believe they were just recovered into fancy leather back in about 2005/6.

Lets not bash VS too much here. I am all for criticism where it is due. The postponmonet may look like a smack in the face for the LGW routes but there are a number of things to remember. LHR was/is always going to get a new product first, its routes have much higher yields and are flown by a much larger customer base than the, vast majority, of LGW routes.

Secondly this is the sensible thing to do. The current climate is crazy with regards to oil prices etc. Someone has decided that this is the best decision to allow the airline to carry on.

Thirdly, its not only Y/W passengers that are being effected. J passengers are seeing their service being reduced and prices increasing.

Fourthly, with the exception of about 4 airlines in the world, ever carrier is currently cutting costs. Look at Jet Airways, one that has been championed by many as being an emerging carrier, they have just sent three brand new 777's to the desert for at least a year.

Tough times call for tough measures, every airline is making these calls right now.

Personally I believe there will be more announcements to come.

our seat map for Oct is also still showing the Etihad seat config...I wonder when this will change?
I have upgraded to PE on the way out to Jamaica but the return (Etihad plane) was showing unavailable, so this might change now?
We have also booked for next Xmas (Barbados) and was so looking forward to trying the newly refitted planes..
I suppose us leisure travellers are just the poor relations again!!

sorry meant to add, I think PE is a great product (better than FC premier)IMHO, but twice the price..
Althoughsaying that this August we managed to upgrade our return ( through VH) for £540 for 3 adults and 1 child which I was really please with. Next Easter it's costing us £910 one way...UC was about £2600...

Originally posted by rachie
We have also booked for next Xmas (Barbados) and was so looking forward to trying the newly refitted planes..
I suppose us leisure travellers are just the poor relations again!!

Ummn nobody said the refit wasn't going to happen - just that it had been rescheduled. If VS LHR ops kill one A340-300 route then LHR could free this plane to MAN\LGW ops to cover refits, but maybe they can't free one by April.

Macmaddog, thanks that's a good point.
I for one am quite glad, as I wasn't looking forward to flying on the unbranded Etihad...I don't know why but I feel a lot more confident seeing those lovely Virgin planes waiting at the gate!!

Re FCA Star Class Premier, and PE - we have flown this on FCA a couple of times, to the Dominican Republic and Mexico. It is very similar to PE; FCA seats are not as wide, and there is 2' less legroom, but they were not too far off the PE seats.

PE upstairs in 747 is very good - really a private cabin, and so better 'ambience'. But on every flight into the Caribbean I have done on VS, the economy passengers have never been 'held' back, so you are behind a number of passengers for immigration (but still ahead of UC, though..!)

Both offer day before checkin at LGW.

Food is probably better on FCA; drinks and service are the same. Better screen on FCA. And it is usually cheaper...

My wife and I agree that there isn't much either way between FCA SC premier and PE.

Originally posted by McMaddog
If VS LHR ops kill one A340-300 route then LHR could free this plane to MAN\LGW ops to cover refits, but maybe they can't free one by April.

Doubt it. Firstly I don't see which route is going to be cut and why would you take a plane off a high yielding route (as the vast majority ex LHR are) to replace it on a LGW route with lower yields. VS will also have to refit it as it will have too many UCS seats. THis wouldn't save money which is what VS is attempting to do.

The decision to postpone the refit is because financially things are tight and the current climate is uncertain. It is only natural that when you are trying to streamline things a bit, the routes that offer the lowest yield/most infrequent service will be effected.

As I said earlier I would not be surprised if there are further reductions of service at LGW.

Originally posted by rachie
I suppose us leisure travellers are just the poor relations again!!

You could say that but its worth remembering that LGW does have a role to play for VS. What VS offer is no worse than many other carriers around the world. As has been said many times before, its difficult to get a good return ex LGW for the carrier. VS' relationship with LGW is no different to other major airlines around the world. NZ for example have refused to refit any 767's at the moment and have drastically changed their operations to the Pacific Islands (which is for NZ like the LGW routes are for VS).


And with regards to FCA.They are about to have the exact same problem that VS has. From January there 'amazing' long haul fleet, will be split up. You could arrive at LGW and end up on a Thomsonfly 767 which will not be configured to the same standard as the FCA a/c. Having used both FCA and VS, the PE product on VS is better and you get all the benefits of a scheduled carrier.

Rachie - If we are now going to be flying to Jamaica on a 747 then maybe when they change the seat map on the website a few more seats for PE might open up? We were lucky and managed to get the upgrade inbound and outbound but like you we also paid £910 each way for the upgrade, Iv never flown PE before, but I thought the price for the 4 of us was reasonable especially if we now get to go upstairs in the 'bubble' As you know I was less than thrilled about flying on the Ethiad plane! [:I] I did try and upgrade again yesterday to UC for the return leg of the flight, its showing as a Z fare on VA so I thought we may be in with a chance but VH didnt have anything available.

Wonder when they will get their act together and update the website?

I think you and me will be at Beaches Negril the same time next April? Save me a seat at the swim up bar [:o)]

Originally posted by willd
I don't see which route is going to be cut and why would you take a plane off a high yielding route (as the vast majority ex LHR are) to replace it on a LGW route with lower yields. VS will also have to refit it as it will have too many UCS seats. THis wouldn't save money which is what VS is attempting to do.

Maybe ... but wasn't one of the points of the LGW/MAN refit (not only to improve the ambience and general offer) but to increase the number of high yielding seats and remove a raft of Y. A LHR config could just form the forerunner of the LGW/MAN new high yield layout. Would a LHR 343 get a better yield on the MCO route then on the lowest yeidling LHR 343 route? No idea myself.
Anyway it was just a thought and mainly to point out that this was not a cancellation of the refit and the Etihad ac was not the only way to make the refit work.

Just wondered......

If the seat plan doesnt change and still shows the 343 config does that mean we might end up on a Heathrow 343?

I'd assume not until you hear otherwise. I'm just theorising an option. That's not to say it hasn't happened before though as the LGW/MAN 744s with Odessy are ex-LHR ac.

Originally posted by McMaddog
Maybe ... but wasn't one of the points of the LGW/MAN refit (not only to improve the ambience and general offer) but to increase the number of high yielding seats and remove a raft of Y. A LHR config could just form the forerunner of the LGW/MAN new high yield layout. Would a LHR 343 get a better yield on the MCO route then on the lowest yeidling LHR 343 route? No idea myself.
Anyway it was just a thought and mainly to point out that this was not a cancellation of the refit and the Etihad ac was not the only way to make the refit work.

My understanding was to partly increase W but mainly to introduce the new W seat. I read somewhere that VS are happy with the J cabin size.

I take your point but surely if this was an option VS would have done this in the first place rather than decide to lease in the EY aircraft.

And lets remember the refit hasn't been put off because of the EY aircraft. Its been put off as it makes better economical/commercial sense to do so.

I think if anything you would see LAS move to LHR rather than a 343 move over to LGW.

They just confirmed that the VS 49 will no longer operate as planned next easter. All pax will be reprotected onto VS 15 the same day.
Looks like the refits will probably not happen next year, so no a/c needed at LGW to cover this. All flights should now be rescheduled on LGW 744s. (MBJ and KIN)

bummer ... thanks for confirming that.
With the 787 fiasco I really thought they may be getting the Boeing Airbus el cheapo. I wonder what VS will do with the 787 compensation - maybe just take the wonga from Boeing ... oh well that's for another thread.

Originally posted by Ptarmigan
The benefits I can think of with Virgin is - It's not a charter flight - people always say that but I actually have no clue what that means or what difference it makes [:I]

It's not so much the flight but the overall service offering. I looked into using FCA / ThomsonFly for a holiday this summer, but found their scheduling restrictive. I like some choice of departure / return days, and the flights I found were once a once a week only.

Paul

Guys am I missing the point a bit, I know its disappointing about LGW and the fleet down there, but if you are feeling that aggrieved about it - There is dare I say it an alternative to all the unhappiness aroung Ex LGW flights is that you go to LHR and fly to another hub like EWR, JFK, ORD, MIA and then connect with an internal carrier to Orlando....that way you clear immigration faster (ex MIA) and then just glide off the plane and straight to your hire car... ok may cost a little more by doing so, but all the US airlines are desperate for bums on seats.

That way you all get the new look, and ok, may take a little longer but I did that when going to Denver (VS to ORD and AA to Den) and found the whole experience much nicer than BA or Thomsonfly/FC

Whilst Thomsonfly/FC have a good offer in PE I'd agree that they don't go to the best airport, the timings are usually poor and you dont get as good a service.

I recently flew to luxor with FC, the route is usualy covered by by 757's but on the outward leg they replaced with one of thier 767's and with me being in row 7 was lucky enough to be seated in the premium cabin, imho a much better seat that PE and I have flown many sectors in PE when my gf was cc

>>>>>>>>>
And with regards to FCA.They are about to have the exact same problem that VS has. From January there 'amazing' long haul fleet, will be split up. You could arrive at LGW and end up on a Thomsonfly 767 which will not be configured to the same standard as the FCA a/c.
>>>>>>>>>

Valid point. but I don't think it too likely, as the FCA 767's are smaller (-200?) vs the Thomsonfly (-300?) - we came back from the Dom Rep in March, and a Thomsonfly 767 was subbed in, apparently due to a 'technical fault' (even though it was arranged a few days before, from all accounts). The economy section was much longer, and their premium cabin not as good as FCA - we got our supplement back from them for the return. There were a lot of unhappy people on that flight!

As with all things flight related, there are no guarantees...!

Originally posted by deep_south
>>>>>>>>>
And with regards to FCA.They are about to have the exact same problem that VS has. From January there 'amazing' long haul fleet, will be split up. You could arrive at LGW and end up on a Thomsonfly 767 which will not be configured to the same standard as the FCA a/c.
>>>>>>>>>

Valid point. but I don't think it too likely, as the FCA 767's are smaller (-200?) vs the Thomsonfly (-300?) - we came back from the Dom Rep in March, and a Thomsonfly 767 was subbed in, apparently due to a 'technical fault' (even though it was arranged a few days before, from all accounts). The economy section was much longer, and their premium cabin not as good as FCA - we got our supplement back from them for the return. There were a lot of unhappy people on that flight!

As with all things flight related, there are no guarantees...!

No both FCA and THomsonfly operate the boeing 767-300, they are the same size. The final -200's that Thomsonfly operated were sold to Silverjet last year.

From January Thomosnfly and First Choice become Thomson Airways. This means one fleet. The current plans for long haul are that:

LGW: Will get two FCA a/c and one Thomsonfly a/c
MAN: Will get two FCA a/c and one Thomsonfly a/c
I believe the remaining Thomsonfly a/c will operate from regional airports.

As a result this means that you can book your long haul holiday and either be on a FCA a/c or a Thomsonfly a/c. My understanding is that it is unclear if a cabin refit will take place due to the current oil prices etc.

Hello

I am flying LGW - ANU on the 20th September and UVF - LGW on the 3rd October 2008.

Does anyone know if any of the LGW fleet will have the new PE seats by that point? I know no guarantee can be given blah blah, but I saw some posts saying that LGW - BGI sometimes gets an LHR config with the new seats and just wondered if anyone thought I might be in with a chance!?

This has been discussed at length lately in this thread. As you will see the refit has been postponed due to the current economic climate in the aviation industry.

With regards to BGI. This was because for a period last year, the BGI route was operated from LHR in order to allow VS to keep a slot they obtained from a deal they did with Air Jamacia for the rights to LON-KIN. I also believe that when BGI operated from LHR it was opeated by an LGW based aircraft. BGI is now back at LGW and will only be operated by LGW aircraft as with the rest of the LGW destinations. There is an extrimley remote chance of a technical issue causing you to get an LHR 747 but given that the LHR 747s are small in number and used to the max I would doubt this. Put it this way I cannot remember an LHR a/c ever operating from LGW due to a technical issue.

So the short story is no you wont get the new PE.

[Nottingham Nick]

Thanks Will.

To keep the info in the same place, I have merged the two threads.


Nick

Thank you!

Originally posted by willd
I cannot remember an LHR a/c ever operating from LGW due to a technical issue.

We had one last year which was Cosmic Girl. The only reason I remember is that V-Port crashed for over 6 hrs of the flight.

Iain