Please upgrade LGW fleet!!

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by Islander
For god sake SRB get the LGW fleet sorted out, prioritise aircraft over fancy lounges and marketing and get your loyal .... but wobbling, customers back on track......

You say that as though you are speaking on behalf of everyone on here. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions, and I am sure there are a lot of people who agree with you, but I can assure you that not all loyal customers, myself included, have 'wobbling' loyalty.

I am not a Virgin apologist, but given the current economic climate, the last thing I want to see is Virgin spend millions upgrading the IFE / cabin decoration this year, then go belly up next year.

As I say, you are more than welcome to to express your opinions on the board, but please remember - they are exactly that.

Nick

lets just say the loyal Barbados PE regular flyers are wobbling ... thats what I have experience of as we all talk together about what we have to travel with. And as of this month 3 out of the 20 or so expat families in our circle who travel VS tried BA for the first time ....
I still find VS PE much better than BA WTP as I stated ... but its decline has been noticeable for those of us who fly this route regularly. And my opinion is they need to get a wriggle on and update those shabbier aircraft, especially as the BGI route is as the Orlando route virtually always fully booked and very popular.

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by Islander
...especially as the BGI route is as the Orlando route virtually always fully booked and very popular.

That is the acid test. If they are still flying with full planes, and more and more people get iPod Touch, PSP, Nintendo DS etc. etc. then new IFE at $1 mill + per plane will be ever lower on the shopping list.

Nick

[RichardMannion]

Can't remember the last time I actually bothered using IFE on a VS flight. Maybe I'm too busy with CdS, the bar, and the ice sculptures.

Now if I have a choice of:

a) investing in Y and IFE where the clientele is more interested in price per se, yet still wants top quality service and amenities yet brings in little revenue in the grand scheme of things or:

b) investing in amenities and new facilities for UC (and sometimes PE) customers that bring a good level of revenue to the airline.

Mmm, that's a real tough one. Lets look at the annoucement on revenue today, it's due to a rise in business customers. The whole airline market for the bottom end has changed multiple times in the last 20 years - look at the point the other day that highlighted that a flight to NYC in the mid 80's was ~£275 and is still at that point today. Look at the proliferation of LCC's that do longhaul. Very few airlines are going to toss money towards Y products in this climate.

If people think that BA are any better, let them try for themselves as there is rarely much difference on price point. Form an orderly queue at the dedicated WTP check-in desks....

[Darren Wheeler]

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Can't remember the last time I actually bothered using IFE on a VS flight. Maybe I'm too busy with CdS, the bar, and the ice sculptures.

personally I prefer the string quartet and the pole dancing in the front....[|:)]

As I have posted before and Nick points out, in these days of low cost laptops, ipods, PSP and DS lite, pax are taking IFE into their own hands. Looking at the films for next month on V-Port, apart from the new Indiana Jones film, nothing is really taking my fancy. Therefore I'll have the MacBook loaded with TV and films to distract me so that even if the IFE fails and the bar is drunk dry I can still amuse myself.

Rather than spend millions on a new IFE, I'd prefer that a few thousand were spend on in-seat power in all cabins. Either Empower or standard 3-pin power.

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler

Originally posted by RichardMannion
Can't remember the last time I actually bothered using IFE on a VS flight. Maybe I'm too busy with CdS, the bar, and the ice sculptures.

personally I prefer the string quartet and the pole dancing in the front....[|:)]

As I have posted before and Nick points out, in these days of low cost laptops, ipods, PSP and DS lite, pax are taking IFE into their own hands. Looking at the films for next month on V-Port, apart from the new Indiana Jones film, nothing is really taking my fancy. Therefore I'll have the MacBook loaded with TV and films to distract me so that even if the IFE fails and the bar is drunk dry I can still amuse myself.

Rather than spend millions on a new IFE, I'd prefer that a few thousand were spend on in-seat power in all cabins. Either Empower or standard 3-pin power.

thats fine as a business traveller but when you're travelling with young kids 1 laptop doesnt stretch to 4 people and at my kids age they dont have such things as Nintendo Ds's - and even when they're older its not something I want them to have. In seat power on the traditional business trip flights makes fantastic sense ... on the routes out of LGW like to MCO and BGI though the traveller is very different, predominantly familes, most of whom are not carrying laptops on their vacations. They want something to keep the kids amused and a decent film for them.

I'm sure that on previous trips to this the kids entertainement was way better than just one channel, and the film choices were dire.

I dont want or need the all-out stop and start system - I'd just like a little choice for the kids of more than one channel and the hope of at least one blockbuster movie ....

my bug bear about this whole situation is that what we paid for and got in the last 4/5 years was susbstancially better than we are getting now. And my sincere hope for 2009 is that LGW fleet gets what it desperately needs .... an overhaul and tidy up of the seats firstly, and if its possible a bit more choice in the channel selections.

[Scrooge]

While I have to agree that a wholesale replacement of the IFE on the LGW fleet is out of the question right now, I also agree that you should receive a clean area to sit in and in all reality on flights to MCO there should be more than one channel with kids programs on it.

[RichardMannion]

You could always get them their own laptops given the price point of them nowadays, you could get one that is more than enough for media for less than the tax on your next PE ticket.

Or you could get one of these:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?Mod ... t&doy=26m8

I'd disagree with the comment about families not taking laptops on holiday - the number of people that have them nowadays is immense. The days of it being purely a business device are long gone. The NetBook market is one of the fastest growing sectors and given ~£200 price point, hardly surprising.

[preiffer]

Did someone mention pole dancing? {:w]

Originally posted by preiffer
Did someone mention pole dancing? {:w]

its very difficult when theres turbulence [:D]

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by Islander
its very difficult when theres turbulence [:D]

More interesting though. [;)]

Originally posted by RichardMannion
You could always get them their own laptops given the price point of them nowadays, you could get one that is more than enough for media for less than the tax on your next PE ticket.

but as a vacation traveller with an airline including entertainement systems shouldnt I expect a decent choice for kids and family?

Having travelled this summer with 9 pieces of hold luggage (inc 2 car seats) and 5 pieces of hand luggage, the thought of taking another 2 laptops brings pain to me[:0]

At the end of the day my question is simple .... the entertainment USED to be better, the seats USED to be better - the upgrade is very much needed, they've done LHR ... now get on with LGW.

Originally posted by Nottingham Nick

Originally posted by Islander
its very difficult when theres turbulence [:D]

More interesting though. [;)]

depends on who's on the pole [:0][:D]

[Darren Wheeler]

Kerry Katona [:$]

Originally posted by RichardMannion
You could always get them their own laptops given the price point of them nowadays, you could get one that is more than enough for media for less than the tax on your next PE ticket.

Hmmm, on this basis I'm sure we could all buy our own food at the airport also, and maybe even a nice red pillow for the seat [:p]

Seriously though, saying that people could buy a laptop to get better entertainment than - as postings here say - was available on the fleet 4 years ago is scary for a supposedly 'full service' airline. What next - pay-IFE like Virgin Blue, or charging for blankets like the charters?

I don't think there can be any justification for the IFE being worse than 4 years ago. BA have their faults also - games not being available in WT (Economy) is unacceptable.

Accept that IFE replacement costs money. Tatty, ripped, dirty interiors though - that is bad as it sticks in the mind of the passenger.

David.

Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Kerry Katona [:$]

bernard manning .......[xx(]

Originally posted by David_Doyle

Originally posted by RichardMannion
You could always get them their own laptops given the price point of them nowadays, you could get one that is more than enough for media for less than the tax on your next PE ticket.

Hmmm, on this basis I'm sure we could all buy our own food at the airport also, and maybe even a nice red pillow for the seat [:p]

Seriously though, saying that people could buy a laptop to get better entertainment than - as postings here say - was available on the fleet 4 years ago is scary for a supposedly 'full service' airline. What next - pay-IFE like Virgin Blue, or charging for blankets like the charters?

I don't think there can be any justification for the IFE being worse than 4 years ago. BA have their faults also - games not being available in WT (Economy) is unacceptable.

Accept that IFE replacement costs money. Tatty, ripped, dirty interiors though - that is bad as it sticks in the mind of the passenger.

David.

exactly the point - we're going backwards, not even staying still, BACKWARDS in terms of quality - whereas LHR gets the whole new deal.

LGW = poor sheep cousins left with the dregs as they know we have limited or no choice.

I dont think that taking a laptop to entertain yourself as a non buisiness traveller is a fair or valid point, the battery life on my lappy is about 2 1/2 hours, not much use to me on a 10 hour flight with nowhere in Y to plug in a charger!

I have never travelled UC or been in a clubhouse so I dont know the value of having those lounge facilities, but having spent many, many hours in Y, I can safley say at this point that a clean seat and decent IFE for 10 hours would take priority for me over an hour or two in a clubhouse.

I think I would prefer to have breakfast in Garfunkles and a whizz around the shops before my flight if it meant that during the flight itself we were comfy and entertained, as opposed to 2 hours in a nice lounge then 10 hours of hell in a shabby seat with no IFE. I dont know, it just all sems a bit back to front to me? shouldnt the passengers needs in the air take precedence over their needs at the airport?

Hopefully after our first UC flight I will be so taken with it that I will never have to experience the horrors of Y again [;)]

I think I agree with Islander. If it were a fair deal, half the LGW fleet would have been refitted and half the LHR fleet not all of one and none of the other.

How much does an airline pay for seats? I know millions have been quoted on here - but surely it isn't more the 1k per seat?? Perhaps I am wrong...

[Darren Wheeler]

Originally posted by barnstaple
I think I agree with Islander. If it were a fair deal, half the LGW fleet would have been refitted and half the LHR fleet not all of one and none of the other.

How much does an airline pay for seats? I know millions have been quoted on here - but surely it isn't more the 1k per seat?? Perhaps I am wrong...

There is a post somewhere in the past that details the cost of upgrading to V-port. ISTBC but the cost was £2-3m per plane. This includes, screens, handsets, fitting (at D-Service only?), all the extra servers, maintenance contracts etc. etc. etc. It was serious money for it to be done

The wider issue here is balancing the lease age of the aircraft, and which i think they extended them recently, so any investment in new cabins would need to match how long they will now keep these old birds. The LGW fleet is really suffering from not having enough a/c as this weekend showed well. One major engine refit and another going seriously tech is a huge problem, outside whether the inside looks good enough to eat your dinner off of. Just lucky I got of the very delayed VS15 tommorow

[Darren Wheeler]

7 years for a 747-400 is hardly old. Remember, these were the Alitalia planes that VS took on when the original order was cancelled post-9/11.

[Decker]

We keep coming back to the same issue. People want comfy clean coach seats with a decent IFE. So if VS were to turn round and say 'we've listened to you - and we're doing it. As a result Y fares will increase by an average of £750 for a family of 4...' how many of the people asking for it would vote with their wallet and STAY? AA tried it with their increased leg room in coach and it bombed. As long as the MAJORITY of coach pax are choosing based on price, airlines have no incentive to spend large amounts of money in Y. Of course like everything else all it needs is one major player to do it.... but I'd love to see the economics spreadsheeted.

Originally posted by Decker
We keep coming back to the same issue. People want comfy clean coach seats with a decent IFE. So if VS were to turn round and say 'we've listened to you - and we're doing it. As a result Y fares will increase by an average of £750 for a family of 4...' how many of the people asking for it would vote with their wallet and STAY? AA tried it with their increased leg room in coach and it bombed. As long as the MAJORITY of coach pax are choosing based on price, airlines have no incentive to spend large amounts of money in Y. Of course like everything else all it needs is one major player to do it.... but I'd love to see the economics spreadsheeted.

but we're talking PE here, not coach - and I dont want an increase in ammenities ....... I want a RETURN to the ammenities and previous standard, I dont want more legroom, I want seats that arent falling apart and I want an IFE system that works more often than not with the channels and blockbuster movies it used to have.

PE LGW is way overdue its overhaul, in the meantime I shall wistfully watch the LHR fleet with green eyed envy .....

[Decker]

My bad. Programming a particular gnarly algorithm and stopped for a break. Should pay more attention.