Please upgrade LGW fleet!!

Decker I see your point, but I thought that VS was built on quality versus quantity, thats why people now say they are riding on the glory of days gone by. VS no longer feels up to date, cutting edge, exclusive or funky. It is being compared to charter airlines, and is coming out second best in a lot of cases.

VS had its target market, I think it could regain that lost market that would pay the extra to fly VS once again, with all the bells and whistles included - new seats, great IFE, decent food, a proper breakfast and for the love of god an ameniety pack!

Everyone else who doesnt like the price increase will return to charter flights, while VS passangers will still fly VS, and they would attract back passangers who deserted them in the knowledge that the product they are getting IS better, not equal or in some cases inferior? Didnt all those charter flyers switch to VS in the first place because they thought the product they were getting was superior?

Ahhh, I really shouldnt be doing this PUTI (posting under the influence) Im not sure if I am going to regeret my hangover or my contrabutions to this thread the most in the morning [:o)]

Im just trying to say that for many people, myself included, flying Virgin is a big deal, something to really get excited about, something different from all the rest, actually enjoying the flight instead of dreading it, 5 years ago I think most people would have felt the same way, but now it just desnt feel that way, not for folks flying from LGW anyhow! I hate these threads, they really take the edge off my excitment, I should avoid reading them in future [;)]

Originally posted by Decker
My bad. Programming a particular gnarly algorithm and stopped for a break. Should pay more attention.

no probs - I;ve just put 2 gnarly kids to bed .... it was hugley distracting too![:D]

[Decker]

I can't talk. I just had a choice of routings for a client gig. I chose the routing that cost me my own miles and saved the client money so I could fly VS. I want to kick myself but I do like the VS people and brand! What was REALLY galling was knowing I was getting TPs I didn't need...

Originally posted by Ptarmigan
Decker I see your point, but I thought that VS was built on quality versus quantity, thats why people now say they are riding on the glory of days gone by. VS no longer feels up to date, cutting edge, exclusive or funky. It is being compared to charter airlines, and is coming out second best in a lot of cases.

VS had its target market, I think it could regain that lost market that would pay the extra to fly VS once again, with all the bells and whistles included - new seats, great IFE, decent food, a proper breakfast and for the love of god an ameniety pack!

Everyone else who doesnt like the price increase will return to charter flights, while VS passangers will still fly VS, and they would attract back passangers who deserted them in the knowledge that the product they are getting IS better, not equal or in some cases inferior? Didnt all those charter flyers switch to VS in the first place because they thought the product they were getting was superior?

Ahhh, I really shouldnt be doing this PUTI (posting under the influence) Im not sure if I am going to regeret my hangover or my contrabutions to this thread the most in the morning [:o)]

Im just trying to say that for many people, myself included, flying Virgin is a big deal, something to really get excited about, something different from all the rest, actually enjoying the flight instead of dreading it, 5 years ago I think most people would have felt the same way, but now it just desnt feel that way, not for folks flying from LGW anyhow! I hate these threads, they really take the edge off my excitment, I should avoid reading them in future [;)]

I think you're absoloutely right. Economy passengers dont have alot to choose from between each airline but when you start choosing PE and UC Virgin really did have the far superior product over all its competitors, it was cool, funky, well priced and gave alot of bang for buck. We used to hop on that plane, into the nice seats, watch great entertainment and look forward to the return.

now we religiously watch which aircraft we'll be one, hoping its not x or y as they're the really tatty ones! Not quite the expectation we used to have pre-flight.[;)]

I appreciate the 'current climate' and ' credit crunch' posts etc and I understand why airlines are being cautious, but from a holiday maker point of view, if VS did the upgrades and increased the prices then I would still fly with them, and I would be super excited about it. We would scale down on Christmas and Birthdays, give up a couple of cinema trips and tighten our belts that little bit more to find the extra to pay for it, but happy once we had done all that we would be getting the full on Virgin experience IYKWIM!

Im not sure how often we would be able to shell out on UC for a family of 4 the expense makes me hyperventilate at times, but if we went back to flying economy or PE and Virgin offered what it used too, then I would scrape it together come hell or high water if it meant 10 hours in reasonable comfort, I think a lot of people would do the same?

[buns]

My own recent experience flying PE on LGW a/c did not disappoint.

The seating upstairs was not overly tatty or in a state of disrepair and I have to admit, that I will continue to prefer those seats for as long as they are around. When coupled with an excellent crew, I certainly did not feel I had been short changed.

So OK, the IFE was not to my taste, but as others have mentioned, resorting to the MP3 player ensures you do have an entertainment system attune to your taste.

These LGW workhorses are kept busy and given the amount of abuse they must get, they are standing up well

buns

My tuppennyworth - an airline that treats its customers as cash cows on a route with an old product will ultimately learn at its cost that this is a mistake. OK, many people are Y fliers on the LGW routes, but I don't see ridiculous £50 sale fares offered to them as frequently as you see to New York, but New York gets new planes, new IFE, etc. etc.

Interesting thread with good discussions albeit same old issues. Life with kids changes everything(God has the last 3 years changed my life) so I fully know where Islander and others are coming from, MDVIPOND/FAMILY MAN will hopefully back me up as well. The whole travelling experience changes and your main priority is to keep them happy at all costs and to be as comfortable as well. I am fortunate that I can save hard and splash out occasionally on UC even though my bank account tells me other wise. This is so our travelling experience with the kids can be as painless as possible. In this day and age IFE is a necessity especially on long haul. Presently our travel is mostly within Europe /Eastern Europe where IFE is non existant so the first thing to be packed will be the portable DVD player with an assortment of at least 10 DVD's. The best investment so far. Kids have their own favourite programmes and if it is not on the TV in front of them on a 10hr flight heaven help the rest of the PAX.

I never had these worries just as a married couple or otherwise, my only concern then was did they have enough drink on board, what is in the amenity kit and how many bacon sarnies could I demolish before the flight.

I am speaking purely from a parents view and my own experiences travelling with pre 4yr olds.
PE, UC should have a premium IFE, we are certainly paying for it.

Iain

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by iforres1
Interesting thread with good discussions albeit same old issues. Life with kids changes everything......

Hear, Hear Iain!

A proper debate, like we used to have. Differing views being put forward, and no tempers flaring - Great! [:D][:D]

I also completely agree with the 'kids change everything' statement. We are now coming out of the other side of the tied to school holidays and and child friendly destination syndrome. No one can underestimate how huge that is on your decision making process - timings, budget, destination and all major factors are influenced, or even decided by, the junior member(s) of the party. This is probably why I am now less concerned with IFE and aesthetics and more concerned with safety, lounges and food. [;)][;)]


Nick

[Neil]

The parent's take on it is a certainly an interesting point. I remember flying long haul quite a bit during the early 90's (mainly on VS) and amazingly we coped with just a big screen showing 1 film at a time to the whole a/c! I know it is a sign of the times, but surely kids can cope with 9 hours of not having everything there own way?

When we went to MCO in April, Luke's 9 year old nephew sat and watched the same film 3 times, he was so happy that he had his own tv, he had the most legroom, a special kids meal, a kids pack and he was made up.

I still stand by the fact the Virgin offer a very good cabin and service in ALL cabins from LGW/MAN. The whole 'poor LGW' stuff is wrong imo, it had been proved that business pax are key at the moment and whilst I would love Virgin to spend millions updating Y and PE, we have to be realistic that is isn't going to happen at the moment.

Neil

Originally posted by Neil
but surely kids can cope with 9 hours of not having everything there own way?

When we went to MCO in April, Luke's 9 year old nephew sat and watched the same film 3 times,
Neil

Absolutely agree, fortunatley sleep helps pass the time as well.

Couple of points to comment on, the age of the child is important, big difference in attention span between a 9 yr old and a 3 yr old.

Kids have an amazing ability to be facinated with the same film/episode many times over so much so to the extent that the DVD becomes un viewable through scratches and therefore you have to buy the same but new one.

I would like to think I am helping VS profits as in their own words I am one of the business passengers(travelling on lesuire if you know what I mean) who pays for the privelage and expects a credible IFE system.

Iain

Originally posted by pjh

Originally posted by av_norw792
So providing a new Vroom whilst being very nice, has been at the expence of decent service on LGW a/c so as to try and interest new passengers (because the old PAX have gone elsewhere)seems a little disjointed. I havent seen BA or other carriers having to provide this, and yet one thing remains, and thats that their service doesnt comes across as a two tier service because of airports.[V]

I doubt the V-Room has been 'at the expense' of the fleet upgrade, as I'd think the total budget for the V-Room - which remember is a paid for facility for VH, not VS, travellers - wouldn't contribute much to putting new seats into a single aeroplane.

Paul

I concur. New IFE, new seats throughout is more like £10m per plane, so the V-room is a snip and funded by people paying for it

now we religiously watch which aircraft we'll be one, hoping its not x or y as they're the really tatty ones! Not quite the expectation we used to have pre-flight.[;)]

This is so true. I'm off on my first UC flight tomorrow (LHR - JFK - LHR) and I meticulously chose my flight to get the best possible configuration and a seat in the bubble on the flip flop.

I'm still raw I guess from a horrible MIA - LHR flight on BA last year and a nightmare a couple of years back when I fell foul of a codeshare and instead of the VS glory I was expecting, I flew with Continental!

Just to add a slightly different slant on this discussion, having last year travelled on VS065 and VS066 in PE i was slightly disapointed by the PE product, especially after Virgin had announced the new PE cabin. Obviously they can't do all planes in one go so i guessed it would be hit and miss if we got and updated cabin. At the time i hadn't come across this sight and wasn't aware it was only LHR planes that had been getting the upgrade. So, now booked to return in January having compared the pro and con's of Charters etc we decided upon booking with Virgin again and got a copy of the latest VH caribbean brochure, to see
the new PE product being advertised in there, but also knowing all VA caribbean flights leave from LGW, interesting how VA/VH advertise a product to entice you that doesn't really exist from LGW! of course there is the small print that states not all planes are fitted with the new cabin, but out of 2 A4 pages that a very small statement

Good point, they do not go out of their way too much to highlight this. ISTRC it was the same when they rolled out UCS, we had booked to go to ANU in UC and was praying for an UCS, but alas. Still had a great flight though sitting next to SRB[:D]

Iain

I think one point is being overlooked by many of the post on this topic, It is true to say that a higher yield cabin such as U/C should always be a far superior product than any other cabin on the aircraft, but what I don't agree with is the persistent suggestions that the Y cabin or indeed P/E cabins should be in a less than desirable state.

Many premium passengers often start flying in a lower class cabins and this is in my opinion and my personal experience that first impressions count.

I currently only fly long haul with either V/S or B/A and started flying Y on both these airlines and my only flight in Y with V/S I was luck enough to be on a 747 that had just been fitted with V port and new seats, the cabin environment along with the wonderful crew was enough to make me turn to V/S in latter years and fly in their premium cabins.

I would be totally honest in saying I would never have looked twice at V/S if I had flown my first economy flight with them on a current LGW 744 with all the issues regarding seating cabin dŽcor and IFE failures.

The quoted £3 million for an aircraft refit for a company the size of V/S is a marginal investment given the value of the aircraft and its earning potential, even in the current financial climate and actually this might just be one of the best times to refit the A/C as globally product demand and the such slows down so prices drop.

Also another point I wonder is how much it costs V/S per year in the dishing out of F/F miles when passengers have valid complaint about inoperative IFE and unacceptable seating?

Jerseyboy

I've just come back from a trip to the states - flew out to San Francisco and back from Las Vegas, both in Premium Economy on 747's (Tinkerbelle outbound and Ladybird inbound). The differences between the two were the seat and the entertainment system. Outbound to San Fran - new seat and v-port, coming back old seat and Odyssey.

Food - indifferent, drinks - plentiful and on request, and service - excellent on both flights were the same on both trips.[y]

The new seat was a lot more comfortable than the older one. Legroom was the same.

There is no comparison between the V-Port system and the old loop systems. One saving grace is at least the loop systems have games.

I think it was pretty mean of Virgin to cancel the Gatwick fleet upgrades. They would have budgeted for this to happen... It was marketed to many holiday companies who went out and advertised this 'enhanced holiday experience'. It would have been a sure decision breaker over other airlines and charter flights. The PE product from Virgin is far superior to British Airways offering.

The newer product has a much more Virgin feel about it. When I took a stroll around the economy section coming back from Vegas it felt like a charter flight. If Virgin up's it's game on the Gatwick flights it will be streets ahead BA, First Choice and ThomsonTuiwotnot and keep passengers coming back for more! I can't wait to fly out to San Fran again with them!

[Nottingham Nick]

Welcome to V-Flyer. Your comments echo what many have said before.

Originally posted by Red Leader
I think it was pretty mean of Virgin to cancel the Gatwick fleet upgrades....

Interesting comment. In what context are you using 'mean'?

Is it mean, as in mean spirited or spiteful? - inferring that it was a deliberate act to annoy customers. Or is it mean, as in tight-fisted inferring that they should have spent the money despite the price of oil, and clawed back the cash by making even more cuts in other areas?


Nick

I tend to travel to Orlando 5 or 6 times a year, 3 or 4 times on business (conventions and networking - hic!) and a couple of holidays with the family. When taking the family I fly economy with whichever of BA/virgin is cheaper. for the past 4 years, that has been virgin. The business flights my company will shell out for PE seats only. Thus I have always elected to fly BA for one reason only. BA has seat power in world traveller + , VA's PE does not. THus I can work on a Ba flight, but cant on a VA flight. That is the killer app that BA has over virgin at the moment and until VA fix the LGW planes, they wont get my 6k a year business spend.

[Nottingham Nick]

As a Business passenger to MCO, even given their massive Convention traffic, you are very much in the minority on VS.

I can see your logic, but rightly or wrongly VS have made the decision not to upgrade the LGW / MAN fleet at present due to cost. It is doubtful they would just upgrade one or two of the fleet in the short term and have them concentrate on the MCO route, given how they seem to rotate the LGW / MAN planes around all of the leisure routes.

The MIA route is the best option to Fla. IMHO.


Nick

Red Leader - willkommen, bienvenue and welcome to V-Flyer. I guess by 'mean' you're meaning (sorry) cheap, or lacking in generosity, rather than inferring any level of malevolence or spite on VS's behalf and, as such, I think you make a fair point.

A lot of this thread seems to boil down to whether VS are in a financial postion to match the level of PE that they advertise with the level that people experience on the LGW routes. We all accept that new seats need to be rolled out over a period of time, but if the current economic climate means that they are unable and/or have no intention of doing this with the LGW fleet then - surely - VS have a responsibility to make the ticket-buying public much more aware of their 'two-tier' PE product.

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by mdvipond
..... if the current economic climate means that they are unable and/or have no intention of doing this with the LGW fleet then - surely - VS have a responsibility to make the ticket-buying public much more aware of their 'two-tier' PE product.

Totally agree, it is just as it was during the introduction of the suites, which seemed to go on forever. TV ads and huge billboards on both sides of the Atlantic and tiny print saying that the suites were not available on all routes, and for ages, this meant the LGW routes.

Nick

Hi all

I meant mean spirited in the tight fisted sense. I also think that Virgin should have made an announcement to say the Gatwick refit isn't happening until next year and stated the reasons why. Then we would have understood.

I appreciate the current financial climate but to offer a product and not deliver it isn't really on. It was quite easy to see that Virgin are cost cutting on the flights. Left over welcome bubbly was poured back in the bottle rather than being offered out - nice and flat for UC passengers or the return journey. There was loads of time for another round. The food was also pretty crummy. Shredded lettuce, one slice of cucumber and a small piece of tomato as a starter on the return journey screamed of cash saving.

I would say the crews deserve a mention as they really looked after us.

I also appreciated being up in the bubble on the way home as that was much quieter and made the PE experience feel more special.

If Virgin upgraded their Gatwick fleet and the A340-300's from Heathrow and gave everyone an extra inch of legroom in economy they would be the best British airline flying longhaul out of the UK.

[Nottingham Nick]

Originally posted by Red Leader

If Virgin upgraded their Gatwick fleet and the A340-300's from Heathrow and gave everyone an extra inch of legroom in economy they would be the best British airline flying longhaul out of the UK.

Or, the latest in a long line of bankrupt airlines, that are but a fond memory. [;)][:D]

Nick

Hi Nick [:D]

Not upgrading the LGW fleet is one thing, nobody on here wants VS to go bust.[:?]But don't you think that advertising an upgraded PE product in a brochure (carribbean 2008/9) of a destination they do not use that product on is wrong[V] . It is not hard to understand why some people could feel a little cheated [n].

[y](Not me though i love traveling PE in the bubble)[y]


Steve