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#53754 by onionz
18 Feb 2005, 11:48
quote:Originally posted by fozzyo
Hmmm, according to their website:

quote:Coutts World Card cardholders can collect AirMiles at a rate of one AirMile for every £15 spent on the card, increasing to one for every £12 whenever card expenditure exceeds £5,000 in a month.


If in the highly unlikely event of ever being in a position to be offered a Black card, this alone would put me off this card. With a FC FC, AMEX Gold or Platinum card I can get one mile per pound. Two per pound for an £80 fee with the FC card.



I tihnk it doesn't quite compare, if they are talking about Air Miles - the scheme which used to be BA's FF program. 1 Air Mile is probably worth about 10 BA Miles, so the rate isn't as bad as it looks, but it isn't great still.
#53761 by RichardMannion
18 Feb 2005, 13:20
Air Miles are a joke.

I agree with BlackCat, practically most places take AmEx now.

Don't get me wrong, the Coutts card is definitely a Premier card with some nice benefits.

Thanks,
Richard
#53768 by Bazz
18 Feb 2005, 13:50
quote:Originally posted by Decker
Yup the last UK place to refuse me was my local Mercedes Garage some 6 months ago. Now _Diners_ is a problem ;)


I agree with you about Diners, I applied for and obtained both Diners and AmEx in 1978. Whilst I have retained my Amex and progressed through the colours, I cancelled my Diners Club card back in the mid nineties simply because it was becoming increasingly difficult to find a retailer to take it. I know the card is still popular in the US but couldn't justify the fee just for the kudos - which I think had evaporated by then anyway. BTW my Jaguar dealer wouldn't take AmEx either!
#53775 by Scrooge
18 Feb 2005, 14:28
Just as a funny sideline..I have PLAT AMEX's,MC,Visa..cant get a regular discover card...It's been a quest for the last 10 years..even when they were owned by Amex,they would give me a Plat Amex but not a discover..man these company are stranger then airlines pricing
#53906 by jaguarpig
20 Feb 2005, 11:39
quote:BTW my Jaguar dealer wouldn't take AmEx either!


Land Rover in Coventry wouldn't take amex so I had a few VS miles instead:D
Looking at my merchant rates amex do charge a little more than Visa and mastercard but they are a lot better than they used to be.
#54090 by Seat 1A
22 Feb 2005, 18:27
quote:Originally posted by RichardMannion
My cheques say Executive Banking Suite, London' on them and a few people have commented on that before, but to me it means nothing.............. If you are having to pay for a credit card for the image and to amke people think better of you, then I think that person needs to get out more - sadly I know of people that have cards like these for exactly this reason, always some arse laying it on with their AmEx Platinum in a shop and you stand and think 'Why?' - my sibling has an everyday job and has a Platinum AmEx on my account - the fun he has had with his card putting these kind of people in their place, and as for me when I use my Centurion card... At the end of the day it is a coloured bit of plastic


Oh the absolute irony of that comment is amazing!

Richard, I came across this by chance, I have been browsing on Flyertalk for some time and have seen you posting a lot in the Amex forum and it seems that indeed you so seem to think the Centurion gives you a better image.....'brownie points from the girls in the office'...'Executive Banking Suite' all this and the story about your sibling 'putting them in their place' merely reinforces it [n]

Maybe you need to see beyond the image of Amex and see it as a card with benefits rather than some tool to show off with [:(!]
#54122 by RichardMannion
23 Feb 2005, 00:20
quote:Originally posted by Seat 1A

Oh the absolute irony of that comment is amazing!

Richard, I came across this by chance, I have been browsing on Flyertalk for some time and have seen you posting a lot in the Amex forum and it seems that indeed you so seem to think the Centurion gives you a better image.....'brownie points from the girls in the office'...'Executive Banking Suite' all this and the story about your sibling 'putting them in their place' merely reinforces it [n]

Maybe you need to see beyond the image of Amex and see it as a card with benefits rather than some tool to show off with [:(!]


Hi Mike,

I think you have missed the context of my post. Yes i have been around on FlyerTalk for a long time, nearly 5 years now (which is quite a substantial part of my life), you may have noticed that I don't actually post too often there in any of the forums.

Brownie points with the girls in the office - absolutely, the satisfaction in putting a huge smile on one of my colleagues face by being able to call up and get Centurion to get them some tickets for a sold out event is priceless. Does it make me arrogant? No. I don't walk round with the thing round my neck, there are several people in my office with UK Centurion Cards, are we elite? No. I use my Centurion Card as a useful tool to help people (oh and and a way to rack up flying club miles).

Executive Banking Suite - I think again you missed the whole context, my statement it means nothing was showing I don't care. I write so few cheques now, and what does it matter. Key thing to remember is that in most instances payment is done at the end of a transaction/interaction so in no way are they expecting a twentysomething that looks like an outcast from a rap video to produce a Centurion Card. I have siad this many times before, I have used my card thousands of times in the last 3.5 years, very few people comment on it (and even then it is in the US), and thats the way I like it. It is just a bit of plastic, the problem is that it has an image due to the hype and mystique created by the uninformed press - twice last week whilst shopping inthe US I was asked if I was a celebrity. Like hello? When was the last time you saw a celeb looking in the sale section and actually carrying their own bags.

There are a number of Centurion Card holders registered here on this very site.

Again you missed the context of my sibling comment, the other customer was the one expecting higher level of service as they had a gold card. He on the otherhand made no qualms about just using it as a payment method - he didn't walk up and smack down his card on top of the other muppets gold card. You only have to look at the other person and the expression they exhibit when they catch glimpse of the card in question.

Does Centurion make me a better person? No. Does it provide some nice benefits that can be made use of by me, my family and my friends? Yes.

Jsut out of question - you don't have to answer, are you a Centurion Cardholder. I won't think anything different of you regardless.

And just to actually point out something to you, it is AmEx themselves that convoy the message of superiority for all of their card range. For a long time before they entered the mainstream market with Blue, one of there key tactics in signing up merchants was that its cardholders earn more and spend more than other card issuers.

To give you some credit, when I was first trying to get a Centurion Card and when I first actually got one, I did exhibit the behaviour that you identified, but back then I was 19 with a Platinum card and 20 with a Centurion Card - tell me what person of that age wouldn't do that! As some of the cheeky forum memebers here will vouch, I'm getting old now and maturer - rubbing peoples noses in it is not the way to win friends and influence people.

Hope this has answered your comments suitably, we're all for healthy debate here in this forum, oh and welcome by the way!

Thanks,
Richard
#54126 by illodius
23 Feb 2005, 00:36
quote:Originally posted by RichardMannion
quote:Originally posted by Seat 1A

Oh the absolute irony of that comment is amazing!

Richard, I came across this by chance, I have been browsing on Flyertalk for some time and have seen you posting a lot in the Amex forum and it seems that indeed you so seem to think the Centurion gives you a better image.....'brownie points from the girls in the office'...'Executive Banking Suite' all this and the story about your sibling 'putting them in their place' merely reinforces it [n]

Maybe you need to see beyond the image of Amex and see it as a card with benefits rather than some tool to show off with [:(!]


Hi Mike,

I think you have missed the context of my post. Yes i have been around on FlyerTalk for a long time, nearly 5 years now (which is quite a substantial part of my life), you may have noticed that I don't actually post too often there in any of the forums.

Brownie points with the girls in the office - absolutely, the satisfaction in putting a huge smile on one of my colleagues face by being able to call up and get Centurion to get them some tickets for a sold out event is priceless. Does it make me arrogant? No. I don't walk round with the thing round my neck, there are several people in my office with UK Centurion Cards, are we elite? No. I use my Centurion Card as a useful tool to help people (oh and and a way to rack up flying club miles).

Executive Banking Suite - I think again you missed the whole context, my statement it means nothing was showing I don't care. I write so few cheques now, and what does it matter. Key thing to remember is that in most instances payment is done at the end of a transaction/interaction so in no way are they expecting a twentysomething that looks like an outcast from a rap video to produce a Centurion Card. I have siad this many times before, I have used my card thousands of times in the last 3.5 years, very few people comment on it (and even then it is in the US), and thats the way I like it. It is just a bit of plastic, the problem is that it has an image due to the hype and mystique created by the uninformed press - twice last week whilst shopping inthe US I was asked if I was a celebrity. Like hello? When was the last time you saw a celeb looking in the sale section and actually carrying their own bags.

There are a number of Centurion Card holders registered here on this very site.

Again you missed the context of my sibling comment, the other customer was the one expecting higher level of service as they had a gold card. He on the otherhand made no qualms about just using it as a payment method - he didn't walk up and smack down his card on top of the other muppets gold card. You only have to look at the other person and the expression they exhibit when they catch glimpse of the card in question.

Does Centurion make me a better person? No. Does it provide some nice benefits that can be made use of by me, my family and my friends? Yes.

Jsut out of question - you don't have to answer, are you a Centurion Cardholder. I won't think anything different of you regardless.

And just to actually point out something to you, it is AmEx themselves that convoy the message of superiority for all of their card range. For a long time before they entered the mainstream market with Blue, one of there key tactics in signing up merchants was that its cardholders earn more and spend more than other card issuers.

To give you some credit, when I was first trying to get a Centurion Card and when I first actually got one, I did exhibit the behaviour that you identified, but back then I was 19 with a Platinum card and 20 with a Centurion Card - tell me what person of that age wouldn't do that! As some of the cheeky forum memebers here will vouch, I'm getting old now and maturer - rubbing peoples noses in it is not the way to win friends and influence people.

Hope this has answered your comments suitably, we're all for healthy debate here in this forum, oh and welcome by the way!

Thanks,
Richard


On a slightly different note, as an Expat working in the UK from Australia, gold is still the top card there, and Gold Amex is a WOW, people do comment over it once in a while, etc. As for a platinum well, you can imagine it's only for the elite so they advertise. I have never even heard of a Centurian card until I read some US mags. As cards go I am happy with my Coutts World Signia and Amex Plat and maybe it would be nice to get a Centurian, but I don't have sleepless nights about it. But our society is fairly material driven and I think it takes all sorts so whether Richard or Mike voices a right or wrong opinion, I believe it's more subjective and in the eye of the beholder and ofcourse our fantastic capitalist marketing machine that goes with the urge to improve one's image based on any product marketed, including Amex, etc. End of the day it's a nice card to have, but only if you're in the frame of mind to appreciate it. Just an opinion ofcourse...
#54425 by illodius
27 Feb 2005, 01:08
Just wondering, a friend of mine visiting who is a Centurian Card holder reckons there are now "Crystal Amex" cards issued to only 400 people world wide. Has anyone heard of anything like this? I've looked about but found nothing, not that I doubt my informed source and friend, although I am curious if it's true or not.
#54494 by TJ
28 Feb 2005, 14:56
Crystal Amex cards.... haven't heard of those.

If they exist, they must be for VERY special customers. Especially as they actually have a bit about Centurion under the 'Card Benefits' section of their website (UK Amex site), but no mention of a Crystal card.

I wonder what they would look like? Perhaps a see-through card (though that has been done by others, notably Discover and Amex themselves with Blue in the USA).
#54509 by RichardMannion
28 Feb 2005, 19:06
No such product, Centurion is the top level product. There have been tales of Crystal/White AmEx cards for a long time.

I know the irony is that Centurion was a myth for a long time, in its 'Ebony' guise. For charter members in the UK, the box that the cards and literature came in containted a wrapping tissue paper that had a quote from the 90's from the Guardian along the lines of 'AmEx has long denied an existence of a Black card'

Thanks,
Richard
#54549 by TJ
28 Feb 2005, 23:52
But then, if you think about it, if such a super-premier card existed, given to only a select few people, how would we know whether it exists or not?

I'm sure that Amex must have some form of either 'premier' Centurion card or something similar, as there must be a huge gulf between some Centurion card holder's incomes and the levels of people on a Bill Gates scale etc?

If, as has been suggested, this mysterious card may only have been issued to some 400 people worldwide (no doubt as I've said, the uber-rich), it would no-doubt be a special product that Amex would not talk about much outside those circles?

Anyhow, this might be one of those questions that may never be answered conclusively ;)

We can but dream [8D]
#54568 by RichardMannion
01 Mar 2005, 11:48
quote:Originally posted by TJ
But then, if you think about it, if such a super-premier card existed, given to only a select few people, how would we know whether it exists or not?

I'm sure that Amex must have some form of either 'premier' Centurion card or something similar, as there must be a huge gulf between some Centurion card holder's incomes and the levels of people on a Bill Gates scale etc?

If, as has been suggested, this mysterious card may only have been issued to some 400 people worldwide (no doubt as I've said, the uber-rich), it would no-doubt be a special product that Amex would not talk about much outside those circles?

Anyhow, this might be one of those questions that may never be answered conclusively ;)

We can but dream [8D]




Maybe - but a few things to bear in mind:

1. There are already two levels of Centurion as such (in the UK anyway). Both have the same card but there is an additional account management benefit for the other level.

2. For those alleged 400 people, do you think they would care or need any other differentiation. They would already have a fleet of staff to deal with their everyday needs, they would hardly need any of the concierge or travel benefits - its merely just a payment card.

To be honest, the same myths did (and to some degree) occur for Centurion - I remember reading about the 20 or so 'Ebony' AmEx cards back in the mid 90's (Centurion Uk laucnhed in March 99). Not sure if you have ever seen this:
http://www.snopes.com/business/bank/blackcard.asp

AmEx spends no money on advertising for Centurion, and for most countries doesn't even acknowledge its existence on the respective country website. It can cause some surreal experiences when trying to use it, as some merchants have never seent hem and assume its a fake card.

Thanks,
Richard
#57287 by peterisagoat
30 Mar 2005, 22:57
Regarding the ongoing debate as to which is the most exclusive UK charge or credit card, the simplest solution might be to consider the membership criteria:

American Express Platinum Ð income of around £50,000.

Lloyds TSB Black Ð minimum income of £60,000.

NatWest Black Ð minimum income of £70,000.

Halifax Carbon Ð minimum income of £75,000.

American Express Centurion Ð invitation-only to Platinum cardholders spending at least £1500 per month.

Coutts bank account Ð minimum income of £150,000 PLUS liquid assets of £500,000 or total assets of £5 million.

Coutts World Card Ð invitation-only to CouttsÕs wealthiest clientele.
#57290 by illodius
30 Mar 2005, 23:05
quote:Originally posted by peterisagoat
Regarding the ongoing debate as to which is the most exclusive UK charge or credit card, the simplest solution might be to consider the membership criteria:

American Express Platinum Ð income of around £50,000.

Lloyds TSB Black Ð minimum income of £60,000.

NatWest Black Ð minimum income of £70,000.

Halifax Carbon Ð minimum income of £75,000.

American Express Centurion Ð invitation-only to Platinum cardholders spending at least £1500 per month.

Coutts bank account Ð minimum income of £150,000 PLUS liquid assets of £500,000 or total assets of £5 million.

Coutts World Card Ð invitation-only to CouttsÕs wealthiest clientele.



I would tend to agree with this, but I am biased being a World Card holder. End of the day they are just payment/credit cards, it's not free money or anything so sometimes I wonder why we even have this topic running. However, I *DO* personally get heaps of airmiles with all my various RBS/Natwest/Coutts cards and they do get me lots of free trips and holidays. Then again I'm a big spender, so really end of the day these days are as good as your need for them (argubly minimal), or the loyalty and frauf protection schemes which Coutts World card and Centurion problem are quite good. I've never been that interested in money back cards.
#57297 by Nottingham Nick
30 Mar 2005, 23:22
Sorry, but if any card is going to give status - surely the Halifax Carbon card has got to be right at the bottom of the list :D:D

Nick
#57302 by RichardMannion
31 Mar 2005, 00:01
For AmEx Platinum the minimum income is £30k.

Thanks,
Richard
#58392 by Soojay
08 Apr 2005, 13:00
But what marketing these cards have - how on earth can they promote such " snob values" for you letting them use your money :D

Now Amex plat - I have never used the companion scheme - is it good value for money?
#58420 by jaguarpig
08 Apr 2005, 16:05
quote:Now Amex plat - I have never used the companion scheme - is it good value for money?


you have to buy full fare tickets,If work is paying could be good for upgrade from J-F or take a companion.I have never purchased tickets through the promotion as I have found better prices elsewhere.

quote:American Express Centurion Ð invitation-only to Platinum cardholders spending at least £1500 per month.


I wonder if spend on other amex cards flags up[?]
#58422 by Nottingham Nick
08 Apr 2005, 16:16
quote:Originally posted by peterisagoat

American Express Centurion Ð invitation-only to Platinum cardholders spending at least £1500 per month.


I would take issue with that figure. When I was a plat card holder, my spend was a LOT less than that and I received the very fancy invite to join the 'Centurion Club'.

I was always under the impression that you had to be a plat customer for some length of time with a reasonable spend, but with a PERFECT payment record [:I]

Nick
#58503 by peterisagoat
08 Apr 2005, 23:18
Note the words "at least".

But from what I've heard, you're absolutely right about the perfect payment record criterion.
#58546 by Bazz
09 Apr 2005, 15:47
I was only Plat for about nine months before the Centurion invitation arrived [8D]. I am sure as has been said payment history is a significant factor; but not sure of the level of spend needed or even if there is a threshold figure, in the UK that is.
#61110 by Potus
24 Apr 2005, 07:43
I believe the best post I have seen in a while is from Richard. I believe what Richard is trying to say, in the most humblest ways, are that there is young-blood and old-blood. The rich people in the world with all the old money, scared to spend it, and venture into this thing we call life. The young are new blood or new money. This is what is driving our new economy.

Now for the credit card thing. Sorry gold guy, it's centurion. Black card. Only the special people get the centurion card. If your cool, just get one. Now for the answer to the 400 people deal, it's a little true. The 400 people is all that is allowed in the official black card club. Only the hottest celebrities, bill gates types, warren buffets types, I would say Donald Trump but I think he is with visa. Make a long story short, if you want the answer, why not ask the black card club?
#61125 by Speedbird223
24 Apr 2005, 14:07
quote:Originally posted by jaguarpig

quote:American Express Centurion Ð invitation-only to Platinum cardholders spending at least £1500 per month.


I wonder if spend on other amex cards flags up[?]
[/quote]

I am wondering the same. Currently only have a BA Amex with perfect payment history and about £5k per month average spend although has been into five figures on a couple of occassions recently, and have been invited to Plat chargecard three times. I understand that Plat is much diluted but based on that I'd have thought all spend on Amex cards would be considered, or perhaps not.

Perhaps Mr Mannion can help out!
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