Split topic - Global warming - fact or fiction?

quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Apparently the Maldives is somewhere that if you want to go there, best doing it sooner rather than later. If sea levels rise more than a few inches the island may disappear.

To my knowledge, people have been saying this for 25 years now! (which is when I first went to the Maldives) - The actual facts are, that the sea levels have not risen measurably in this area at all.

The planet is also cooling down very quickly according to Nasa figures for the last three years! The trouble is there are now too many people either with vested interests or too much money to be earned from perpetuating the 'man-made climate change' lie.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html

quote:Originally posted by Capt.Pag

.......The planet is also cooling down very quickly according to Nasa figures for the last three years! The trouble is there are now too many people either with vested interests or too much money to be earned from perpetuating the 'man-made climate change' lie.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/5067351/Rise-of-sea-levels-is-the-greatest-lie-ever-told.html


The Telegraph seems to be keeping all options open, given that this article (clicky), presenting the opposite view, was published within a week of the one you highlighted.

I have no particular axe to grind on this subject, but I was impressed that all the meteorologists I spoke to on a recent (work) visit to the Met Office in Exeter were quite clear that we are locked into a process of significant warming. They were equally clear that the process was inextricably linked to man-made factors, and that the question was not whether the planet was at risk but rather where, on a range of unpleasant possibilities, reality would lie.

Anyway, I post for interest, rather than to get into a 'black and white' debate: people seem to fall quite quickly into one of two camps on this subject, and then stay there. And even the greatest pessimist would probably accept the islands are very unlikely to be flooded later this year, when the OP is looking to visit [;)]

Best wishes

David

quote:Originally posted by Capt.Pag

...The actual facts are, that the sea levels have not risen measurably in this area at all.

The planet is also cooling down very quickly according to Nasa figures for the last three years...

Sorry to come back to this - I appreciate it's OT - but I am interested in the subject and, in a few tries on Google, I can't find anything that matches these two assertions. I might just be being slow, but would you mind providing a link to the original sources (especially the NASA one)?

Thanks in advance

David

Hi DavidM, I too hesitate to reply on this because it is OT and liable to cause amazingly heated arguments! It seems that at the moment, to actually question what we're being fed on the subject by much of the media, puts you on a par with believing in UFO's!

I too am very interested in this subject and the phase I that really winds me up is: 'most scientists agree'. It's often used by global warming fans and is completely misleading. (I notice the name has now been adjusted to 'climate change' to accommodate cooling as well)

The undisputed fact is, that the human race has lived through the most moderate temperature range in Earth's history. This planet has been both a lot hotter and colder than it is now (many times over) and long before we invented 4x4's!

All you have to do now is look at how much revenue will be lost by Governments, organisations and literally thousands of individuals if this climate change turns out to be a factor of Sun activity and not man made. How are they going to trade carbon and tax us all for what the sun does?

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2008/

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/2009/pr20090211.html

http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/10/16/greenland-climate-now-vs-then-part-i-temperatures/

http://www.ecd.bnl.gov/steve/pubs/HeatCapacity.pdf

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/McLean_IPCC_bias.pdf

http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature%20Monitors%20Report%20Widescale%20Global%20Cooling/article10866.htm

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/03/goddard_polar_ice/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7329799.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/3982101/2008-was-the-year-man-made-global-warming-was-disproved.html

http://www.dailytech.com/Solar%20Activity%20Diminishes%20Researchers%20Predict%20Another%20Ice%20Age/article10630.htm

http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher%20Basic%20Greenhouse%20Equations%20Totally%20Wrong/article10973.htm

I'm sure the Maldives will still be there for a couple more holidays!

[Nottingham Nick]

A fascinating argument / debate, with strong views on both sides, but as both have said it, it is dragging the thread off topic.

I will split it away into a thread of its own in the Off topic section - please continue discussions there.

Nick

DavidM, In answer to the point you make about the meteorologists you spoke to at the Met Office in Exeter, Clearly, if the planet was cooling down they would also be able to show an inextricable link to man made factors - it works both ways! If the climate is changing you could link it to any man made change occurring at the same time but that doesn't mean it's the actual cause? (ie. wow - I eat more custard creams and the planet warms up, there must be a link)

I'm old enough to remember the great ice age scare of the 70's, also caused by meteorologists forgetting what the biggest influence on our temperature is!!!!

quote:Originally posted by Capt.Pag

...The actual facts are, that the sea levels have not risen measurably in this area at all.

The planet is also cooling down very quickly according to Nasa figures for the last three years...
Thanks for all the links. It's probably an indication of my sadness that I think I'm familiar with the contents of most of them. And the quote from Dr Vicky Pope, within the Met Office link you posted, chimes completely with what was said by others at the Met Office when I was briefed:

quote:When climate scientists like me explain to people what we do for a living we are increasingly asked whether we believe in climate change. Quite simply it is not a matter of belief. Our concerns about climate change arise from the scientific evidence that humanitys activities are leading to changes in our climate. The scientific evidence is overwhelming.
With that said, I appreciate there is still another side in this argument, albeit less vocal than in the past, and I'm interested in whether it stands up. So I go back to my question about the specific statements you made above, because these are the ones I can't find an authoritative source for. On the first, I can see data indicating a 4 inch rise in sea level in the Maldives in the twentieth century (which doesn't really fit with your first statement), and nothing on the NASA site about very quick cooling over the last three years, your second statement, or putting such data into a historical context.

It's no problem if you don't have any authoritative references for your original comments but, if you do, I'd be interested in the links.

Best wishes

David

Ha ha ha, one thing I do not come to V-Flyer for is heated discussion on global warming and whether it exists and who caused it!

That said, I do believe in it, do believe humankind's role and would like to try to stop it.

To the specific point about cooling, this has been long forecast as a periodic cooling cycle even during an overall upward trend. I believe lots of people have recognized this, and the likelihood that anti global warming diehards would leap on it.

I feel most sorry for Polar Bears, though I wouldn't want one in my back garden!

quote:Dr Vicky Pope... Our concerns about climate change arise from the scientific evidence that humanitys activities are leading to changes in our climate.
What scientific evidence? We're back to the 'when I eat more custard creams argument'. I'd love to see some scientific evidence which proves the link between something man is doing and the recent changes in global climate. Do you have a link?

This is interesting regarding sea level in the Maldives...
http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/MornerEtAl2004.pdf

The main data site for NASA/GISS
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/
(Unfortunately much of NASA's modelling was based on the work of Dr Hamsen which has been questioned more than once - famously by this 15 yr old! http://newsbusters.org/node/13282 and more recently with dodgy Russian data)

And more about the NASA/UAH joint research project.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/01/990118080320.htm

Global cooling?
http://www.spaceandscience.net/id16.html

I'm sticking my neck out with this comment, BUT, read State of Fear by Micheal Crichton. Even if you end up thinking the whole book is rubbish, have a look at the bibliography in the back for many sources of counter arguements to global warming.

Global warming? No such thing. Glaciers in Iceland, for example, are ADVANCING.

Climate change? Oh yes... Canada had it's first coast to coast white chrimbo in ages. Seattle and Vancouver, famed for their rain, had more snow than you can shake a stick at. And as for the UK.....!

quote:...this has been long forecast as a periodic cooling cycle
Slinky, can you post a link which shows this drop being forecast prior to 2008?

Calling the drop in temperature a 'predictable blip' in an upward trend can also be used by global warming alarmists to perpetuate the lie and their income!

The answer as to who's right will only come in >25 years - lets post then and see what the average temperatures have done.

(The most abundant greenhouse gas is actually water vapour - and what happens to that when the planet warms up?)

You're so right woggledog,
We're ruled by a state of fear and our only defence is to question what we're told.
[^]

quote:Originally posted by Capt.Pag
The answer as to who's right will only come in >25 years - lets post then and see what the average temperatures have done.


Ha ha ha, you'll be winding up your hand held phone to call me presumably, while floating in your dinghy? I'll be prepped, have eleccy and food and waving at you floating by while planning my hols to a cool zone LOL [:p]

The only way you'll be going on hols is if you walk - everything else will have been taxed out of existence long before then! (How are you going to generate your leccy?)

quote:Originally posted by Capt.Pag
The only way you'll be going on hols is if you walk - everything else will have been taxed out of existence long before then! (How are you going to generate your leccy?)



Oh stop baiting!

I am looking to buy a Range Rover Sport Supercharger, anybody know any good sites to look at. Second hand is fine for me.
Climate change Phwah!

Iain

quote:Originally posted by iforres1
I am looking to buy a Range Rover Sport Supercharger, anybody know any good sites to look at. Second hand is fine for me.
Climate change Phwah!

Iain


Was told a story yesterday about these. A leasing company was offering 3 that had just come off lease and somebody had been brave enough to put in a bid for 50k for the 3. He was laughed at but received a call 2 hours later asking if his bid was genuine.

Guess who now has 3 RR Sports. - right place, right time !

David

Edited to add : before anyone asks, unfortunately, it's not me [:#]

Saw a 06 plate for 18K on Exc & Mart site. By the time I called it had been bought. Doh