MORE Onboard Service Cutbacks to save money update

Was thinking about withdrawing the first drinks run in PE and Y.

PE would be a strange cut as keeping it would further 'enhance' (marginally) the distinction from Y.

It seams to me that the 1st drinks run is a good way to settle the cabin down and stop people wandering around in search of a 'better seat' in the same cabin. If there is no at seat service will pax still be able to go up the galley and ask for a drink?

If that's the case you would soon have a long queue down the aisle and several annoyed pax seated near the galley complaining about having their space invaded.

Also some (MANY?) pax would then tend to ask for two drinks on the meaL run which would simply delay things.

I can sort of see the logic of changing bottleS for cuplets as it would save some weight.

LOL, thanks RichardMannion & mdvipond, I was just curious as I often see RichardMannion making comments about the Daily Mail so was just wondering what it was all about but all has been answered. Anyway, my wife buys it, I read it with bemusement and always slag it off to her!

I think the loss of a crew member is a concern - I have seen elsewhere frequent complaints from FSMs about having to fly without a full compliment of crew, so I think a loss of a crew member will have an impact.

quote:Originally posted by RichardMannion
I missed the item about the removal of a member of staff - I personally don't have an issue with that. I remember it being a suggestion during the last pay 'negotiation' and all hell broke loose. As I said before, its not as if staff on the whole are rushed off their feet from start to finish of the flight.


I would also say that it is a good thing that crew are not rushed off their feet for the entire duration of a flight. One of the most critical stages of a flight is the landing when the crew should be fully alert and not absolutely knackered after not stopping for 7+ hours.

I have recieved the following comments by email from a member of VS cabin crew who did not wish to post the comments here herself. Suffice it to say the crew member in question does the MCO route on a regular basis (and permission has been granted for me to post her comments here).

1) The cheese and biscuits in Y are very rarely left. In a section which I clear, there will probably be perhaps two left. On average I guess that's about 10 or so in Y.

2) The pretzels are extremely popular. Someone mentioned lots of people leaving them, I bet I get back one unopened pack when I clear in.

3) We now have nothing to offer when people are hungry mid-flight.

4) The bottle of water going is a mistake, as lots of people come to the galley asking for them to be topped up during the flight. The cuplet holds far less water, so they'll be coming for glasses of water (and we often run out of those plastic glasses). Using more glasses is more rubbish to have to crush.

5) Not offering a drink first, on a departure after 7pm, means the customers are confused. Go out on the 75, get a drink before the meal. Come back on the 74, don't get a drink before your meal. What will happen then? The passengers will say, 'terrible crew, they were too lazy to do a drinks round, the other crew were much better ....'

Thanks
James

quote:Originally posted by sky0000547
What....no pretzels [:0]!!! That is a disgrace especially when I can't find any worcester sauce flavoured pretzels anywhere else but on a VS plane [V].

VS better keep serving those GU brownie when crossing the Atlantic [:(!].

I probably can understand alot of people don't eat the cheese and biscuit. I do however clean out my tray [ii].


you can buy the worcester sauce pretzels online

http://www.pennstate.co.uk/shop/

[buns]

This is a difficult call.

On the one hand, reductions in the service, however small, do have an impact on perceptions[n] and lasting one at that. I recall the time when there was a much wider range of drinks available in PE, but 9/11 put paid to that[n][n]

We are once again in similar times with huge reductions in traffic in a business that is running close margins due to the competition in the market place.

IF these measures help VS keep going in these difficult times then I can live with it. BUT when the good times return, VS has to be bold once again to become innovative and continue to grab the imagination.

VS remains the only viable UK airline to compete with BA and because of this we all enjoy lower fares - irrespective of class

buns

Disappointing to hear of these cuts, especially the ones in Y.
I was always a fan of the pretzels, and the cheese and crackers.
The portions of meals are already small, and the cheese and crackers whilst small, did add something to the tray.
The water cup shall be annoying - It was nice to have an extra bottle of water whilst on the plane.
Shame on you VS.

quote:Originally posted by vscss
and we have been told there is more to come.

Important not to miss that quote!
This is just the first wave.
quote:Originally posted by RichardMannion
I missed the item about the removal of a member of staff - I personally don't have an issue with that. I remember it being a suggestion during the last pay 'negotiation' and all hell broke loose. As I said before, its not as if staff on the whole are rushed off their feet from start to finish of the flight.

Perhaps your usual experience of VS is rather different from a MAN/MCO in Y - that's having staff cuts as well!

And what would the reaction be to changes affecting CH ? [:0]

Wont miss Mien Kampf erm Daily Mail bigot mag don't get me started.

Going to sound stuck up but after two years of swiping things out of the J cabin its about time they started looking at the other side of the curtain.

If its about surviving hard times its understandable but cutbacks in 'things' in my view should take priority over cutbacks in people, save money and keep a staffer fine but both is silly and not a sign of respect for the crew.

[mitchja]

Wouldn't it make life easier for the crew if all the A/C had water fountains installed, not just the 346's?

I find these very usefull plus it's also a reason to get up and strech my legs every so often. If I'm flying on an A346 I take a water bottle with me and keep topping it up every so often.

OK you have the initial expense of installing the water fountain machine on every B744 and A343 but at least it means less time taken by the crew serving water to everyone all the time.

Regards

Speaking as a bean counter, I understand if cuts have to be made. However, I would probably be most concerned about the cutting of a crew member from each flight. I can't say if that will adversely affect service, only the CC and FSM would be able to tell us that, and I guess we will see what effects, if any, this does have.

I have to say though, there are 2 ways of ensuring profits remain steady, or increase. You can cut costs, or increase revenue. Increasing revenue comes from either charging more for your product, or selling more product.

Looking at the costs that are being cut, lets add that up, with my best guesstimates of prices VS would pay per passenger.
Cheese and biscuits: 20-50p
Drinks Service: 40-70p
Pretzel snacks: 7p
Towel: 10p
Water bottle size reduction: 20p
Newspapers: 5p

I don't know what staff are paid per flight, plus the other costs associated with that (accommodation, HR costs, payroll taxes etc) so can't really say.

However, the others I think are reasonable guesses. By the way, THANK YOU Penny_L for posting the link to the Penn State Pretzel company, I LOVE those pretzels - I've never seen them here in the US (even though I live in Pennsylvania!), and I'm gonna order a box or two of them (19.99 for a box of 200!!).

So I would guess that per passenger, excluding personnel changes, the other cost cutting measures may save between 1.02 and 1.62. That doesn't take into account admin related expenses to do with ordering, shipping, storing & delivering the items to the seats, but it's done in bulk, so lets be prudent and double our total and say the cost cutting measures may save between 2-3.20 per passenger.

As I mentioned, to keep profit steady, cut costs, or increase revenue. I wouldn't mind paying another 2.50 on a 300-450 economy ticket. To be fair, I think airfare prices are too low, compared to where they were 5, 10, 20 years ago. I'm pretty sure they haven't kept up with inflation (there must be some stats out there).

Anyway, I'd pay a couple quid extra per flight, if only for the pretzels! Alternatively, I'll just take a box on board with me and sell them to the other PAX.

Quick Edit: I just thought, from a VS standpoint, yes those cutbacks may save them so money, but from a Richard Branson standpoint, some of those items will have a somewhat more neutral effect. If VS cancel their order for several hundred thousand Virgin Vie towel thingies, then that's income lost from Virgin Cosmetics. If VS cut one drinks service, then that will be thousands of cans of coke/lemonade that they don't buy from Virgin Drinks.

quote:Originally posted by aft1981

Cheese and biscuits: 20-50p
Drinks Service: 40-70p
Pretzel snacks: 7p
Towel: 10p
Water bottle size reduction: 20p
Newspapers: 5p



I'd say very much over estimated. C&B will be <5p, towel 2p if that, newspapers provided free by the publisher, water bottle less ... drinks probably less since duty free and bought in bulk ...

But your main point is about ticket prices and therefore revenue - I've posted before, as has Richard, about the insanity of offering transatlantic fares in economy for forty or fifty quid (plus fees) with such frequency - even increasing this to a base line of 70 quid could have a huge effect! One airline needs to break out of this bottom feeding inanity - then some reality might return to the world of travel.

For me, who travels PE in W and therefore the most expensive class, or J mostly, contributing the most margin to VS, any cutback hurts my perception of the airline. Unfortunately, I blame this on those who seek, and those at VS who offer, ridiculously cut price fares.

I think this is a really tough subject!

It is hard for crew to ensure that all the usual standards and service is met when it is evident to our frequest fliers that things have changed/gone regardless of cabin.

I for example also try and embrace the change (good or bad) and there are alot of passengers that have not flown with us before and dont know any different -there needs to be a balance.

As a other poster has mentioned, on the internal forums, people are not happy with certain changes and as front line staff we see first hand the reactions from passengers. regardless of the business traveller who is in J every month or the family of 5 to Orlando once a year, we have to attempt to maintain who we are. NOt having pretzels or a little bottle of water does not change that.

It is grim times, with the economy and like every other airline out there VS is doing what it feels it has to maintain its core values and ultimatly stay in the air.

I work in Y & W and realise this is the area that is being targeted for cost efficiency at the momment. I would love to still do the rumbler cereals for breakfast into JFK with a hot meal option for example, but unfortunatly this is not somethinbg Virgin can sustain. I think its a shame, but I can not serve passengers with a face like a wet weekend.
Times will change and Virgin will bounce back with the flare that people know us for.

Happy flying
A - Crew

I totally agree with Slinky09. Having suffered a DVT I am really annoyed that VS go to the expense of producing a video highlighting the fact that we should all drink plenty of water throughout the flight to safeguard against possible problems and then have a deliberate policy to offer less.

Another thing that has gone is the shaving kits in UC from the basket (the FSM made a point of telling me!)

One thing that people forget is the cost of putting things on a plane isn't the same as going out and buying it from Tesco. There are the logistics costs of getting meals onto a plane on time, the fuel costs from the extra weight of all this stuff. Not sure that really applies to the shaving kits though - couldn't have been more than a couple of people using them a flight, and they were on demand.

Dan

[HighFlyer]

I used to take the shaving kits, they are perfect for my business trips to stick in my toiletries bag as I have a habit of leaving the MACH 3's behind. Shame to see another item go.

Thanks,
Sarah

I haven't seen the shaving kits in the baskets for a long time now - but have always been given one 'upon request' which I can use in revivals (who never seem to have any !).

Shame if that has changed in the last couple of weeks.

Hackneyguy

Talking of service cuts, and I don't know how true this is.

The driver back from Terminal 3 today mentioned that as he was waiting outside the revivals lounge there was a debate amongst staff about whether it was going to stay open or not.

Apparently (he overheard) the rent alone is something like 9k per week. The onboard cuts aren't such a big deal, provided the entertainment system works and the seat reclines, and I suppose the arrivals lounge is one of the few things you can cut given that you only have it at Heathrow, but it would be a part of the service I would really miss.

quote:Originally posted by DanV
Talking of service cuts, and I don't know how true this is.

The driver back from Terminal 3 today mentioned that as he was waiting outside the revivals lounge there was a debate amongst staff about whether it was going to stay open or not.

Apparently (he overheard) the rent alone is something like 9k per week. The onboard cuts aren't such a big deal, provided the entertainment system works and the seat reclines, and I suppose the arrivals lounge is one of the few things you can cut given that you only have it at Heathrow, but it would be a part of the service I would really miss.


Given the dubious source of your intelligence I for one do not give it any credibility.

However you postings this evening have certainly entertained me on an otherwise dull evening at home alone [:w]

Hackneyguy

[honey lamb]

quote:Originally posted by DanV
Talking of service cuts, and I don't know how true this is.

The driver back from Terminal 3 today mentioned that as he was waiting outside the revivals lounge there was a debate amongst staff about whether it was going to stay open or not.

Apparently (he overheard) the rent alone is something like 9k per week. The onboard cuts aren't such a big deal, provided the entertainment system works and the seat reclines, and I suppose the arrivals lounge is one of the few things you can cut given that you only have it at Heathrow, but it would be a part of the service I would really miss.

If he was waiting outside Revivals how would he have overheard the conversation given that there is a long passageway leading up to where the staff generally are? [?]

I can't see them getting rid of revivals as it it a selling point and BA and other airlines have them too. No revivals would lead to a loss of UC pax.

If they wanted to economise on revivals they could consider getting rid of the treatments (never managed to get one on my two visits) and extras such as the 'housekeeping' service and make it a 'shower and breakfast' only lounge.

quote:Originally posted by tontybear

If they wanted to economise on revivals they could consider getting rid of the treatments (never managed to get one on my two visits) and extras such as the 'housekeeping' service and make it a 'shower and breakfast' only lounge.


I dont agree - the treatments are as much a part of revivials for some as the showers or breakfast.

I never (well once) have had a treatment at the LHR Clubhouse but I would not suggestet cutting it for the majority; by the very fact theat you have NOT been able to get a treatment whilst in rivals shows thier popularity.

Lets keep Virgin Upper Class an experience - in doing so I urge that we V-Flyers suggest enhancements that are affordable but resist any cut of the product that appeals to many of us regular J PAX.

Regards,

Hackneyguy

MR HG

Oh I agree on keeping UC an experience but it looks like VS are looking at saving some money.

Revivals is a lot different to the CH (which should be protected) but on my admitedly only two visits revivals is also lot less busy too so it would be an easy cut for them to make rather than have them close the whole thing.

Yours

alone on the sofa ...

[Darren Wheeler]

I don't see Revivals or the CH being cut. If (and it's a big IF) the quoted cost of 9k a week rent is true, considering the amount of UC tickets sold for each week that's cheap.

quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
I don't see Revivals or the CH being cut. If (and it's a big IF) the quoted cost of 9k a week rent is true, considering the amount of UC tickets sold for each week that's cheap.


Me neither - it is a load of old nonsense. One just has to look at BA and their new T5 arrivals lounge complex - it is SUPERB and the treatments offered (after having an afinity bath etc) are sublime - I can see Virgin wanting to improve their offering to woo back those lovely full fare J (and BA F) pax.

Regards,

Hackneyguy