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#259466 by kayzers
05 Jun 2009, 23:54
I'm sorry for my first post being such a random post. I'm a lurker [:w]

But today I have to post because I'm curious as to whether anyone knows why the VS019 (LHR-SFO) was delayed about four hours today (5/6/09)?

Thanks in advance to anyone who provides an answer :)
#717282 by ukcobra
07 Jun 2009, 13:42
I have a bunch of colleagues waiting to come back on the return flight (VS20) . I'll find out sometime on Monday. I am sure someone in the lounge at SFO will tell them why they have been delayed.
#717349 by kayzers
07 Jun 2009, 23:07
Thank you ukcobra :) That'll be much appreciated. I'm off to SFO soon so I'm curious!
#717350 by mike-smashing
08 Jun 2009, 00:31
Looks like (but I don't work for VS, so can't be sure) it's a shortage of serviceable LHR 747-400s to 'blame' for this.

From what I can work out, G-VROC came in on the VS20 around 10.30am, and was turned around to work the VS19.

On the 6th, I understand VS19 was 4 hours late.

Remember that they've got G-VHOT out at Filton for 'special paint', and G-VROY stopped for maintenance and paint at KLM Engineering in Amsterdam.

G-VHOT was covering one of the LGW flights (BGI/UVF) for the LGW ship away in AMS, which left LHR down to 4 aircraft, and it looks like G-VWOW has been sent over to take this work, and ROY is still in AMS as of yesterday.

That leaves only *three* LHR configured 747-400s available at LHR, BIG, ROC and FAB. Right now, 5/6, 19/20 and 45/46 are booked on 744, so that's all three aircraft.

(11/12 were also booked on the 744 at weekends, but they have mostly been swapped onto the 346.)

So, if one of those goes tech, there is a flight delay, or one has to be stopped for maintenance, there's an inevitable shortage of aircraft.

Swapping 19/20 to an Airbus at short-notice is non-trivial due to the 2 night stopover on this flight (there will be no rested Airbus flightdeck crew downline to take the return flight).

Quite why HOT didn't get the special paint when it was stopped for work at KLM, or the 744 which followed it for maintenance (WOW) got the paint instead, who knows?

In the past, VS would use downturns to look to pick up good value leases on aircraft.

A lease on a 744 or two might make sense right now, as they have little room for manoeuvre, it seems, and there's the Dreamliner delays to consider.

There's the two ex-Oasis, ex-ANA, 747-400s still up for lease, and these are a really good match for VS existing fleet - GE CF6 engines, MAS 3000 IFE (the platform behind V:Port) already fitted.

They are both fresh from a C-check, of a similar vintage to G-VXLG (1998), and have about 38k hours logged (less than XLG, on about 43k).

Given the market for 744s for freighter conversion is slowing up due to the economic downturn, I can't think why VS couldn't secure a good deal on these two airframes - both have been on the leasing market for about 7 or 8 months now.

Sure, you've got the cost of a cabin refit, but a 5 year deal on these would plug the gap nicely until the Dreamliners start to come online, planned for 2013.

As these two are younger than FAB and HOT, an extended lease could even allow FAB and HOT to be stood down once the 787s arrive, as they will be approaching 20 years old and probably 100k hours by then.

(ANZ have just scrapped ZK-NBS at 20 years and almost 90k hours, and really high cycles.)

Maybe Boeing would do VS a good deal?

Mike
#717351 by slinky09
08 Jun 2009, 07:52
Mike - I'm not sure I agree with you about picking up extra planes. Taxiing around LHR these days you can see how many VS 346s are parked up having a day or twos rest as schedules and routes have been reduced. I think you're right though that the issue is temporary shortage plus availability of the wrong type of plane for the SFO route ... I don't see why flying 346s to SFO for a planned amount of days could not work however. It'd be a bit sad though, SFO is a 747 route after all!
#717477 by ryand
08 Jun 2009, 20:49
I have to agree with mike. I have thought that the ex oasis planes would be an ideal fit for Virgin right now. One based in LHR and one in LGW. LGW needs some flexibility for maintenance and delays, as well as at least the PE cabin upgrade. If nothing else gets done then to be honest that should. You can't launch a new product then only halfheartedly offer it. The extra 747 at LHR could be used during the peak months for increased capacity on popular routes and maybe keep 5 LHR routes on the 747 year round. I've noticed however that now the 747's have the same economy capacity as the 346 so with reduced premium and upper class demand it is most likely more profitable to fly the 346 on most routes.
#717483 by kayzers
08 Jun 2009, 21:48
Thanks for the info guys :) It does indeed make sense that the shortage of 744s at LHR is going to cause delays like the one on the SFO service. It's back running on time now.
#717486 by RichardMannion
08 Jun 2009, 21:54
quote:Originally posted by ryand
I've noticed however that now the 747's have the same economy capacity as the 346 so with reduced premium and upper class demand it is most likely more profitable to fly the 346 on most routes.


But the profit is still coming from W and J loads, the fare basis on the Y tickets is fuel money. If VS were sensible and had a stellar offer like BA have done a few times now, they could fill up the PE and Upper cabins a bit more. But then maybe that's a good thing they don't, as anyone travelling in one of those premium cabins right now is potentially going to be disappointed with the lack of 'premium' quality.

quote:Originally posted by ryand
You can't launch a new product then only halfheartedly offer it.

Err, welcome to the world of Virgin marketing and that all too familiar asterisk of caveat.
#717491 by Scrooge
08 Jun 2009, 22:05
quote:Originally posted by ryand
I have to agree with mike. I have thought that the ex oasis planes would be an ideal fit for Virgin right now. One based in LHR and one in LGW. LGW needs some flexibility for maintenance and delays, as well as at least the PE cabin upgrade. If nothing else gets done then to be honest that should. You can't launch a new product then only halfheartedly offer it. The extra 747 at LHR could be used during the peak months for increased capacity on popular routes and maybe keep 5 LHR routes on the 747 year round. I've noticed however that now the 747's have the same economy capacity as the 346 so with reduced premium and upper class demand it is most likely more profitable to fly the 346 on most routes.


Who pay's for the 744 ? VS doesn't have the money, who pay's for the refit? again VS doesn't have the money.

Having a spare 744 sitting around for peak travel times is nice, it's a quick way to lose a lot of money though.

While it would probably be a good thing, it would sink VS right now.
#717493 by slinky09
08 Jun 2009, 22:06
quote:Originally posted by RichardMannion
quote:Originally posted by ryand
I've noticed however that now the 747's have the same economy capacity as the 346 so with reduced premium and upper class demand it is most likely more profitable to fly the 346 on most routes.


But the profit is still coming from W and J loads, the fare basis on the Y tickets is fuel money. If VS were sensible and had a stellar offer like BA have done a few times now, they could fill up the PE and Upper cabins a bit more. But then maybe that's a good thing they don't, as anyone travelling in one of those premium cabins right now is potentially going to be disappointed with the lack of 'premium' quality.

quote:Originally posted by ryand
You can't launch a new product then only halfheartedly offer it.

Err, welcome to the world of Virgin marketing and that all too familiar asterisk of caveat.


As usual, Mr Mannion has it nail on the head.

Consequently, those who think VS are going splash out tens of millions of $ on airliners and then spend more converting them to VS specs are, I think, [:w]
#717509 by ryand
08 Jun 2009, 22:56
OK granted they don't have the money now and yes they need to be careful about flashing the cash. I still want to know who made the future fleet decision at Virgin. Perhaps the panels should have been bought a few months back, now they could be making a bit of money and be ready to use them when the market recovers. Virgin seem to be inflexible with their fleet and aircraft rotations. An airline of Virgin's size IMHO shouldn't be pushing its fleet to the limits that a 2 hour delay on a MCO flight can cause delays for the next 3 days! Haven t they already paid for the 346's they have deferred! Why didn't they just keep getting them.


Sorry for spelling the first time, i wrote this very quickly and pressed send before i had time to correct it!
#717517 by preiffer
08 Jun 2009, 23:46
predi ctve txt on ovredrve, Ryan...? [;)[:w]

For the sanity of others, please check content before posting [:)]
#717532 by carter
09 Jun 2009, 08:07
Having read that this flight has been delayed a couple of times recently, wanted to check how I stand on my connecting flight, given I need to be in LAS by 27th June. Some of you may recall a few months back I asked for opinions on the transfer time from International to Domestic at SFO and eventually was forced to change my connecting flight as VS changed their flight schedule.

When initially booked, all was done through Expedia, out VS19 on 26th June then a code share flight (dont recall the number) with US to LAS. Just checking my booking and the rebooked US flight is now US471, so no longer a code share flight number, plus I have 2 confirmation codes, one for each carrier, which might be normal anyway.

If VS19 is delayed and I miss my connection, will I be forced to purchase a new ticket? US dont seem to have OLCI, so cant use that. If the delay is 4hours or more, then its likely I miss the last US flight that evening, 80minute minimum recommended transfer time. So is it up to me to rebook, find hotel, etc.

Probably worrying too much over it, but would rather have the answers in preparation if things do go wrong. Thanks
#717538 by mike-smashing
09 Jun 2009, 08:52
We've got a 2 hour delay posted for today's VS19, yet we've currently got three 744s steaming toward Heathrow, VS6 close to time, VS46 also close to time, and VS20 an hour late.

I'm guessing one of the 744s is going to get stopped for something when it gets to LHR, and so we've got to wait for the inbound off the 20 to be turned around to work the 19.

Mike
#717541 by mike-smashing
09 Jun 2009, 09:21
quote:Originally posted by mike-smashing
VS6 close to time, VS46 also close to time, and VS20 an hour late.


FAB and BIG have both just turned up together off the 46 and the 6.

The 19 is currently slated to be operated with ROC, which must be what's working in (1 hour late) on the 20. Joy. Wonderful.

One of the pair here will work the MIA, and who knows about the other one. Maybe it's being stopped for something, maybe it's off to Gatwick to help keep their schedule afloat, or being dispatched on some self-congratulatory back-slapping promotional exercise, rather than earning money.

They must have known this last night, yet when I went to bed, 19 was still down for an ontime departure.

Sometimes it looks like this company's internal navel gazing and marketing BS seems to take priority over it's passengers' needs - like reliable on-time flights operated by a properly resourced fleet.

Mike
#717543 by archie
09 Jun 2009, 10:03
message for mike are you wearing a fedora and smoking a pipe ? if not please make yourself known.i'm the robust guy with shorts looking cold.
archie
#717552 by Scrooge
09 Jun 2009, 11:14
quote:Originally posted by archie
message for mike are you wearing a fedora and smoking a pipe ? if not please make yourself known.i'm the robust guy with shorts looking cold.
archie


LMFAO

OK, so the VS schedule is doing it's normal summer meltdown, nothing really new here, but thank you to Mike and others for spending the time to try and keep everyone updated [^][oo]
#717558 by mike-smashing
09 Jun 2009, 11:22
quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
OK, so the VS schedule is doing it's normal summer meltdown, nothing really new here, but thank you to Mike and others for spending the time to try and keep everyone updated [^][oo]


BIG has been dragged off by a tug somewhere, not sure whether it's in disgrace or otherwise, but leaving FAB to work the MIA (which is already going late), and the SFO pax waiting for ROC to get in from SFO and be turned around in double quick time - yes, I'm already expecting to find dirty socks under the ottoman and used earplugs in the armrest pocket [}:)].

I should add, the service in the CH has been 100% on the money all morning, now on mojito #3, and it's all very bearable as a result.

Mike
#717564 by carter
09 Jun 2009, 12:31
Any thoughts on the issues with connections resulting from the recurring delays on VS19 as I posted earlier in this thread???
#717565 by kkempton
09 Jun 2009, 12:33
Does anyone know when G-VHOT will return to LHR?

kev.
#717566 by mike-smashing
09 Jun 2009, 12:48
quote:Originally posted by kkempton
Does anyone know when G-VHOT will return to LHR?


I'd guess a day or two before the 25th birthday VS1.

Anyway, I'm too busy having my own little Herve Villechaize moment ('De plane! De plane!') as G-VROC has just put rubber on concrete and is rolling out on 09L as I type.

I'm guessing we're looking at a 2pm departure for VS19 today, if the turnaround goes quickly.

Mike
#717570 by kkempton
09 Jun 2009, 13:06
Well providing my flights on time when I go on the 25th, Im happy.

Have a good flight Mike.

Kev.
#717594 by MarkedMan
09 Jun 2009, 16:02
I'd say we're all looking at a lot of potential trouble in the next month, KK. I'm flying to the UK the day before you (sorry to miss you), and need to decide how to line up a connection. Do I plan for an hour or two delay, or four??? [:)]
#717670 by kayzers
09 Jun 2009, 22:04
carter, I haven't a clue about connections but I'd be curious to know how long it is to grab a connecting flight in SFO from international - domestic because I'm going to be doing a connecting flight in August!

But yes, thank you all very much for all the information you've provided so far. It's been an interesting read. I look at things differently to most of you, I don't look at things financially. It's probably because of my age, I look on things differently. E.g. The idea of G-VHOT getting a bday paintjob merely makes me excited about seeing it, instead of thinking about the backlash it has on the general service. So thank you guys for opening my eyes to the disruption little things can cause!
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