quote:Originally posted by ryand
OK granted they don't have the money now and yes they need to be careful about flashing the cash. I still want to know who made the future fleet decision at Virgin. Perhaps the panels should have been bought a few months back, now they could be making a bit of money and be ready to use them when the market recovers.
Its also worth remembering that it really is not as simple as saying 'I fancy that plane in Hong Kong lets go and buy it'. The documentation for the purchase of an aircraft is huge. Not only do VS have to be satisfied with the a/c but they will want various warranties and indemnities from both the aircraft manufacturer and its previous operator. All of this requires negotiation and is quite a lengthy process.
Then you have to remember that in order for VS to finance a new aircraft they will need some sort of facility from a bank. Banks are of course cutting back on lending of all types and VS undoubtedly will have been hit, just as you and I have been. If VS did get say HSBC to give them a loan for the aircraft, HSBC will have a huge long list of warranties, indemnities and condition precedents that it wants satisfying.
So its really not as easy as running along to Boeing (or whoever) and asking for an aircraft and getting it tomorrow. It takes months of work.
quote:
Virgin seem to be inflexible with their fleet and aircraft rotations. An airline of Virgin's size IMHO shouldn't be pushing its fleet to the limits that a 2 hour delay on a MCO flight can cause delays for the next 3 days!
I see your point but remember an aircraft makes no money when it is sat on the ground empty. Therefore with a small fleet you need it in the air as much as possible. If you are DL or BA you can afford to have one aircraft sat around on the ground as you have 200 others making money. With VS they just cannot do this. Also it is worth pointing out that BA currently have no spare 777 so are arguably experiencing similar problems to VS.
quote:
Haven t they already paid for the 346's they have deferred! Why didn't they just keep getting them.
No they will have paid a deposit for the aircraft. Or at least a bank will have paid it on VS' behalf. Rather like when you buy a car you don't pay the full price on ordering it.
quote:Originally posted by mike-smashing
Quite why HOT didn't get the special paint when it was stopped for work at KLM, or the 744 which followed it for maintenance (WOW) got the paint instead, who knows?
Yeh after our chat about this the other day I was wondering. Dare I say it but could it have been cheaper to get the work done at FZO than AMS?
Whilst we did have a discussion about the way forward for the fleet in another thread the point is, as others have posted, its not really viable at the moment.
On here we quite often think that VS just do not get what the consumers want (ie: upgrade PE at LGW etc). THe point is they are probably very aware of what the consumer wants but are finding it hard in the economic climate to justify the expenditure (or even get finance to make the improvements). People often forget that the big airlines (as well as any business in the UK) are feeling the pressures of the economic climate currently. Banks are restricting their lending and that has impacted everyone.
OK granted they don't have the money now and yes they need to be careful about flashing the cash. I still want to know who made the future fleet decision at Virgin. Perhaps the panels should have been bought a few months back, now they could be making a bit of money and be ready to use them when the market recovers.
Its also worth remembering that it really is not as simple as saying 'I fancy that plane in Hong Kong lets go and buy it'. The documentation for the purchase of an aircraft is huge. Not only do VS have to be satisfied with the a/c but they will want various warranties and indemnities from both the aircraft manufacturer and its previous operator. All of this requires negotiation and is quite a lengthy process.
Then you have to remember that in order for VS to finance a new aircraft they will need some sort of facility from a bank. Banks are of course cutting back on lending of all types and VS undoubtedly will have been hit, just as you and I have been. If VS did get say HSBC to give them a loan for the aircraft, HSBC will have a huge long list of warranties, indemnities and condition precedents that it wants satisfying.
So its really not as easy as running along to Boeing (or whoever) and asking for an aircraft and getting it tomorrow. It takes months of work.
quote:
Virgin seem to be inflexible with their fleet and aircraft rotations. An airline of Virgin's size IMHO shouldn't be pushing its fleet to the limits that a 2 hour delay on a MCO flight can cause delays for the next 3 days!
I see your point but remember an aircraft makes no money when it is sat on the ground empty. Therefore with a small fleet you need it in the air as much as possible. If you are DL or BA you can afford to have one aircraft sat around on the ground as you have 200 others making money. With VS they just cannot do this. Also it is worth pointing out that BA currently have no spare 777 so are arguably experiencing similar problems to VS.
quote:
Haven t they already paid for the 346's they have deferred! Why didn't they just keep getting them.
No they will have paid a deposit for the aircraft. Or at least a bank will have paid it on VS' behalf. Rather like when you buy a car you don't pay the full price on ordering it.
quote:Originally posted by mike-smashing
Quite why HOT didn't get the special paint when it was stopped for work at KLM, or the 744 which followed it for maintenance (WOW) got the paint instead, who knows?
Yeh after our chat about this the other day I was wondering. Dare I say it but could it have been cheaper to get the work done at FZO than AMS?
Whilst we did have a discussion about the way forward for the fleet in another thread the point is, as others have posted, its not really viable at the moment.
On here we quite often think that VS just do not get what the consumers want (ie: upgrade PE at LGW etc). THe point is they are probably very aware of what the consumer wants but are finding it hard in the economic climate to justify the expenditure (or even get finance to make the improvements). People often forget that the big airlines (as well as any business in the UK) are feeling the pressures of the economic climate currently. Banks are restricting their lending and that has impacted everyone.
Believe me VS certainly know what the consumer wants, as the crew are constantly nagging them on our internal forum!
As for the 346s we wont be getting any more of them as they didn't live up to expectations regrading fuel consumption etc.
I think it will be well over ayear before any new routes, interior upgrades, new a/c etc are even thought about.
The main aim at the moment is to reduce frequencies on 'thin' routes and chase the charter market to utilise the spare 346s. We have already done some flights for the Military and apparently there are more planned.
As for the 346s we wont be getting any more of them as they didn't live up to expectations regrading fuel consumption etc.
I think it will be well over ayear before any new routes, interior upgrades, new a/c etc are even thought about.
The main aim at the moment is to reduce frequencies on 'thin' routes and chase the charter market to utilise the spare 346s. We have already done some flights for the Military and apparently there are more planned.
#717733 by Guest
10 Jun 2009, 11:36
10 Jun 2009, 11:36
quote:Originally posted by virginboy747
We have already done some flights for the Military and apparently there are more planned.
[:D]
We have already done some flights for the Military and apparently there are more planned.
[:D]
Willd, Thanks for the detail about purchasing an aircraft, yet again paperwork paperwork paperwork i see! I have no problems with what Virgin are doing at the moment in trying to stay afloat and not flashing the cash. But i cannot help but think the airline has lost a bit of direction. I know BA is different to Virgin BUT they are their main competitor so i feel it is fair to compare the two, and BA a few years ago bough their extra 777's and are now starting to receive them. They are using them on more leisure routes where the cash is at the moment it seems and replacing older aircraft in the fleet. They are also continuing to upgrade their product and fleet, even if it is much slower than planned. They seem to know what they need to do to survive and have the foundations to make a bad situation good. They also have planes and resources to use in the future when the economy recovers. I have just felt over the past 2 years that I've lurked on here that the airline has slowly lost drive and seems to say something and then do something else, there doesn't seem to be a concrete plan.
No argument from me on the last part.
Just to clear up something though. When an airline orders an aircraft they pay a deposit, not the whole amount, the balance is not due until the airline takes delivery, so those 77w's that BA is taking delivery off now are being paid for now.
Also, could I ask that we move this kind of dialog back to the 'VS future' thread and leave this thread to focus on the delays.
Just to clear up something though. When an airline orders an aircraft they pay a deposit, not the whole amount, the balance is not due until the airline takes delivery, so those 77w's that BA is taking delivery off now are being paid for now.
Also, could I ask that we move this kind of dialog back to the 'VS future' thread and leave this thread to focus on the delays.
quote:Originally posted by kayzers
carter, I haven't a clue about connections but I'd be curious to know how long it is to grab a connecting flight in SFO from international - domestic because I'm going to be doing a connecting flight in August!
Haven't done it yet myself, but from investigation you have to collect your luggage, go through customs and then follow connecting flights and re-check your baggage. There is no secure transit from the international to domestic terminals.
Have been advised can take a minimum of 80minutes and possibly longer due to immigration, so allow plenty of time in between flights. Best to check prior to travelling which terminal your domestic flight uses so you know where you're going on the AirTran
Heres details from the SFO website
http://www.flysfo.com/web/page/orphan/a ... index.html
Also still waiting for some response to my post earlier in this thread regarding my connections.
carter, I haven't a clue about connections but I'd be curious to know how long it is to grab a connecting flight in SFO from international - domestic because I'm going to be doing a connecting flight in August!
Haven't done it yet myself, but from investigation you have to collect your luggage, go through customs and then follow connecting flights and re-check your baggage. There is no secure transit from the international to domestic terminals.
Have been advised can take a minimum of 80minutes and possibly longer due to immigration, so allow plenty of time in between flights. Best to check prior to travelling which terminal your domestic flight uses so you know where you're going on the AirTran
Heres details from the SFO website
http://www.flysfo.com/web/page/orphan/a ... index.html
Also still waiting for some response to my post earlier in this thread regarding my connections.
SFO is not LHR. You can get around quickly. All terminals are adjacent, and you can walk between them through covered walkways. Even from the international terminal (though that route can be a bit obscure). Given the airtran is a few levels above arrivals, I'd walk, but that's just me.
Your biggest factor in making connections is obviously the timing of your arrival (hence this thread), and how long it takes you to clear immigration. I haven't had to do non-rez immigration for years, so can't really say what the timings are like right now, others will know better. I'm usually out of the terminal in about 15 minutes after disembarking, considering I go through the easy channel for passport control and my bags are tagged for early delivery. The latter usually works, though on a recent flight coming in from LHR with UA they offloaded one priority load, then a bunch of regular luggage, and you had all these first and C passengers standing around waiting for their suitcases - add 10/15 mins to time for this snafu. If all goes well, you can do this in an hour or less. Things don't always go so well [:)]
It pays to get yourself on a later flight, IMO. Unlike BA and lots of euro carriers, who are just dumb about this, US airlines will standby you and put you on earlier flights without any issue if there's room, so if you are flying with a carrier that has lots of domestic flights out of SFO, like VX or UA, and you get through early, just ask to be reassigned to an earlier flight. They will be happy to oblige if feasible.
Your biggest factor in making connections is obviously the timing of your arrival (hence this thread), and how long it takes you to clear immigration. I haven't had to do non-rez immigration for years, so can't really say what the timings are like right now, others will know better. I'm usually out of the terminal in about 15 minutes after disembarking, considering I go through the easy channel for passport control and my bags are tagged for early delivery. The latter usually works, though on a recent flight coming in from LHR with UA they offloaded one priority load, then a bunch of regular luggage, and you had all these first and C passengers standing around waiting for their suitcases - add 10/15 mins to time for this snafu. If all goes well, you can do this in an hour or less. Things don't always go so well [:)]
It pays to get yourself on a later flight, IMO. Unlike BA and lots of euro carriers, who are just dumb about this, US airlines will standby you and put you on earlier flights without any issue if there's room, so if you are flying with a carrier that has lots of domestic flights out of SFO, like VX or UA, and you get through early, just ask to be reassigned to an earlier flight. They will be happy to oblige if feasible.
Thanks MM.
At time of rescheduling Expedia said minimum connection was 80minutes, thinking to allow for disembarking, baggage reclaim etc
Currently VS019 is scheduled to land at 14:20 and US471 takes off at 18:30, so in theory plenty of time in between the 2 flights. But a delay of 3 hours likely to mean I miss my connection.
If happens US have a later flight, and their last of the day, at 19:35 otherwise may have to see if can get onto United who have much later times
At time of rescheduling Expedia said minimum connection was 80minutes, thinking to allow for disembarking, baggage reclaim etc
Currently VS019 is scheduled to land at 14:20 and US471 takes off at 18:30, so in theory plenty of time in between the 2 flights. But a delay of 3 hours likely to mean I miss my connection.
If happens US have a later flight, and their last of the day, at 19:35 otherwise may have to see if can get onto United who have much later times
I honestly think you'll make the flight even with a three hour delay, and definitely the later one. Like I said, US airlines tend to be understanding and flexible about re-allocating you, mostly because of the hub-spoke system, and the fact we all have to make connections as a way of life. Chances are you'll be sipping a few in TGIF or Firewood Grill for a couple of hours.
Good morning!
Can anyone tell me why the VS065 & VS066 are consistently late in the last few weeks. Yesterdays VS066 is due to be nearly 4 hrs late. We're travelling on VS066 in August and need to make a connecting flight, which we won't if it's going to be late. Just wondering should I make alternative arrangements now!
Ta
Can anyone tell me why the VS065 & VS066 are consistently late in the last few weeks. Yesterdays VS066 is due to be nearly 4 hrs late. We're travelling on VS066 in August and need to make a connecting flight, which we won't if it's going to be late. Just wondering should I make alternative arrangements now!
Ta
If the flight is late in departing from MBJ you will know long before your NOC flight in which case you could go into the EI website and either change your booking to the following day's flight to NOC for 35 each plus any fare difference. Alternatively you could transfer to a LGW-DUB flight on EI even though it would be a bit of a pain schlepping back down to the west of Ireland on a train. These are options for you as opposed to making alternative plans now which may not be necessary.
As a general rule 3 hours between flights is fine especially at LGW where you will not have to change terminals
As a general rule 3 hours between flights is fine especially at LGW where you will not have to change terminals
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 159 guests