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#260105 by RedVee
01 Aug 2009, 09:56
Pushed back at 18:29 on last night's VS4, and actually took off around 20:30[:0]. We were taxiing for all of the time, not sent somewhere remote to park up, just going round the long way in fits and starts. Weather wasn't great, but the anticipated thunderstorms didn't materialise.

Wonder if this is some sort of record?

Regards
RedV
#721952 by Jacki
01 Aug 2009, 10:04
Never had anything approaching that. I get irritated when it is just slightly slower than usual so would have been climbing the walls.
#721954 by honey lamb
01 Aug 2009, 10:20
On my first trip on the VS4 we pushed back at 18:30 and didn't take off till 9pm. Because of the weather ATC were only allowing a 2 minute separation between take-offs. It got to the stage where the captain allowed people to use the restrooms so slow was the start-stop progress of the plane
#721958 by Dave2009
01 Aug 2009, 11:40
When I took the VS4 I think we pushed back on time around 1830 but it took about an hour and a half till we took off. I think it always takes a while at JFK
#721964 by ilikebluesmarties
01 Aug 2009, 12:34
quote:

Not if you fly BA in my experience - straight up and away [y]


I agree, Have used both VS and BA on numerous occasions, Virgin seem to be put at the back of the queue every flight whilst BA is up and away most times.
#721979 by virginboy747
01 Aug 2009, 18:35
One of my best friends work for BA and I can assure you they wait just as long as us at JFK! Some days are busier than others and the weather is also a big factor. I've waited a couple of hours during thunderstorms, but also have been up within 10 minutes on other days, it just depends on various factors on the day,but JFK is certainly the worst airport we fly to for take-off delays. Usually you find the VS 10 is the quickest out as it is later and much of the earlier congestion has cleared.
#721982 by The_Banking_Scot
01 Aug 2009, 19:42
Hi,

On my only visit to JFK with BA on my return when we pushed back we were told by the captain that we were number 60![:0] for take off.

Fortunately I was in Club world and the crew came round with drinks and nuts.

Took around 80mins to take off from push back.

Regards

TBS
#721986 by slinky09
01 Aug 2009, 20:24
I too have taken 90 mins on occasion at JFK to taxi while on BA - hackneyguy and ilikebluesmarties (so do I by the way), you must have been lucky!

VS45 on Thursday night this week, we taxied for all of 5 minutes but then it's a long story and a dog called Nelson was involved ...

Actually, I don't take the VS10 for this reason but also because of the following ... flight time is scheduled for 7 hrs, with a 5hr time zone gain that means a 6 pm flight should land at 6 am. Heathrow is limited in arrivals before 6 am and frequently the tailwinds mean a flight time of less than 7 hrs ... this means the VS10 in particular can often be slowed down on departure. Add to this JFK's famous congestion at this time you can taxi for ages and my record is 2 hrs 15 mins in fine weather.

Which is why the VS2 from EWR is often a better choice!

I DO hope VS doesn't get put to the back of the line however at JFK ...
#721992 by dan87027
01 Aug 2009, 23:10
The evening flights from JFK in my experience are always horrendous. The last time i was on the 46 home it took nearly 2 hours from push back to being airborne and the captain announced that it was fairly normal.
#722004 by Guest
02 Aug 2009, 13:41
quote:Originally posted by virginboy747
One of my best friends work for BA and I can assure you they wait just as long as us at JFK!


Well I fly to circa JFK monthly (with BA) and I can assure YOU that I have never been in a line with BA - lucky maybe but it is the case that with BA I am up up and away [|:)]
#722014 by Decker
02 Aug 2009, 16:30
in your beautiful balloon?
#722021 by mike-smashing
02 Aug 2009, 19:04
As everyone says, JFK is notoriously bad because of it's predominant role as a transatlantic gateway. Lots of inbounds mid-afternoon, lots of outbounds late-afternoon and early evening. It's noticeable that UA heavily pad their JFK-LAX/SFO flight times during the periods of worst congestion.

The killer on VS flights is that the IFE is usually off, the crew are seated early in the taxi (which prevents them from doing even water/soft drink runs), and in theory you shouldn't use any PEDs (which rules out iPods, laptops and portable video players).

If VS would get their IFE certified by the CAA for non-stop use, then it would provide some much needed relief during such lengthy ground delays.

EWR, BOS or even IAD (depending where you're starting out from) are much better bets from that corner of the US - e.g. last time I was in PHL, I just took Amtrak up to EWR for VS2. If you're in New England, even just over in Southern CT, you may be better off out of BOS.

Having said that, I've been stuck in a 90 minute ground stop in IAD before now, on UA, however, as we weren't taxiing but were parked in a 'penalty box', the engines were shut down, IFE turned on, and dinner served.

Mike
#722031 by RedVee
03 Aug 2009, 07:51
quote:Originally posted by mike-smashing


The killer on VS flights is that the IFE is usually off, the crew are seated early in the taxi (which prevents them from doing even water/soft drink runs), and in theory you shouldn't use any PEDs (which rules out iPods, laptops and portable video players).

If VS would get their IFE certified by the CAA for non-stop use, then it would provide some much needed relief during such lengthy ground delays.


Mike


Mike, you describe it very well, the only concession that was being made were PAX were being escorted to the loos. I really felt sorry for the woman with a small child who had to keep it belted in on her lap, it's very difficult to placate someone that small when they are facing away from you.

I felt lucky overall as we had been moved to the 4 due to the late arrival of the 45, and so got into Revivals at the same time we originally should have done if we'd travelled on the 46. Incidentally, the 46 pushed back at 23.55 rather than 19:30.

But as this looks far from uncommon, I think the advice to use an alternative airport is sound. The JFK clubhouse is good, but not that good that I'd choose JFK above Newark.

Regards
RedV
#722049 by tontybear
03 Aug 2009, 14:43
Given there are usually moans about delays at LHR has anyone done a comparison of delays between LHR and JFK?
#722065 by mike-smashing
03 Aug 2009, 16:00
quote:Originally posted by tontybear
Given there are usually moans about delays at LHR has anyone done a comparison of delays between LHR and JFK?


I'd say that JFK is worse than LHR. I'd say the average time spent at the holding point to take off at LHR is between 10 and 20 minutes, and it's usually less. I'd normally plan on an average of 15 minutes from pushback to takeoff at LHR.

They almost always push back on time in the US, even if there's 2 hours worth of taxiing ahead, or a lengthy spell in a remote 'penalty box' holding area.

If LHR is known to be backed up early enough, I've seen a preference for the departure time to be pushed back thus keeping pax in the terminal - despite the overcrowding it can cause.

Mike
#722094 by tugpilot
03 Aug 2009, 19:55
Why does JFK do this rather than keep aircraft on stand allowing push back taxi and take off on a slot basis. Then paxcould board late and the aircraft could depart against slot.
#722104 by Paul H
03 Aug 2009, 22:15
We once got diverted to Gatwick and had to get a taxi to Liverpool to pick up our car. Not sure if that counts?
#722106 by Sealink
03 Aug 2009, 22:21
Not the longest in terms of time, but I was on a BA plane to Glasgow that waited at Gatwick for about 25 minutes... so quite long in relation to the actual flight.
#722112 by slinky09
03 Aug 2009, 23:07
quote:Originally posted by mike-smashing
I'd say that JFK is worse than LHR. I'd say the average time spent at the holding point to take off at LHR is between 10 and 20 minutes, and it's usually less. I'd normally plan on an average of 15 minutes from pushback to takeoff at LHR.

They almost always push back on time in the US, even if there's 2 hours worth of taxiing ahead, or a lengthy spell in a remote 'penalty box' holding area.


quote:Originally posted by tugpilot
Why does JFK do this rather than keep aircraft on stand allowing push back taxi and take off on a slot basis. Then paxcould board late and the aircraft could depart against slot.


Both related - LHR is a slot planned airport, JFK is a free for all.

At LHR the airline purchases a take-off slot and your flight time is related to that so all the back planning goes into departing the gate around your slot time. Of course, it goes wrong from time to time with inclement weather or other stuff screwing it up. So as Mike says, typicalls you roll down the runway 15 mins after departing the gate.

At JFK the airlines 'own' the gate or the terminal. The airline can schedule flights whenever and however it likes as long as it can get the airplane to the gate. Hence at popular times they schedule multiple flights at the same time irrespective of whether the plane can take off near its departure time - all marketing and sales of course but the result .... two hour taxis at JFK early evening.

I know which I prefer but if you breach this argument over on A.net you'll be flamed royal by those who think the JFK method is preferable!
#722118 by Tinkerbelle
03 Aug 2009, 23:43
Having flown countless times home on many airlines from JFK in the last twelve years, rest assured that all airlines suffer the same taxi times at JFK.

My longest taxi time was 2 1/2 hours on a BA flight about eight years ago. I think my longest VS taxi was about ninety minutes.

However sometimes for unexplained reasons, there is hardly any queue. My last flight home from JFK on the VS4 was a few weeks ago and I was getting ready for the long taxi again (having just recently done the flight not long before) and to everyone's shock we were airborne fifteen minutes after pushback.

I think my quickest taxi at JFK was five minutes - it was a day that nearly all domestic flights had been cancelled due to the weather so no queue!!
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