Elitism on the forum?

quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
quote:Originally posted by sixdownkeepsafedepth
despite the Etonian and Oxbridge educations of some, my command of the English language is far superior to that displayed by many of the 'toffs'.


The bloody period goes inside the quotation marks. [:p]

GJ


Wouldn't that depend on which country you live in? CMOS itself would seem to suggest so. [;)]

quote:Originally posted by MarkedMan
quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
quote:Originally posted by sixdownkeepsafedepth
despite the Etonian and Oxbridge educations of some, my command of the English language is far superior to that displayed by many of the 'toffs'.


The bloody period goes inside the quotation marks. [:p]

GJ


Wouldn't that depend on which country you live in? CMOS itself would seem to suggest so. [;)]


Well if you're going to consult the Chicago manual you might as well consult Uri Geller for your lottery numbers...the AP Style Guide is the only one of substance.

Plus, the British are just wrong. [}:)]

GJ

These upstart colonials had difficulty writing the King's English!
The period outside quotation marks was entirely a device used by typesetters.
quote:QUOTATION marks, like hyphens, should be used only when necessary. The degree of necessity will vary slightly with the mental state of the audience for whom a book is intended.
edit to add link

I see a green grocer approaching to collect his ''''s' !

[:D][:D][:D]

[honey lamb]

Side-stepping the issue of apostrophes (which in itself could be described as elitism [:w] ) I would hope that EGG would continue to post. I have always enjoyed his TRs along with others and I hope I have been able to discern the tongue in cheek comment.

The big problem of the internet is the two-dimensional aspect of it. When you are a regular member of a forum such as this you expect people to know where you are coming from but must accept that a newbie might not be so clued in. I shot myself in the foot spectacularly a few years ago when I posted in another forum something that was intended to be funny but was taken seriously by one member. Fortunately while I was off-line other members recognised where i was coming from and did a certain amount of damage limitation but one cannot always rely on that. More recently one of my nieces took umbrage of something that I was posting on Facebook (as GJ can testify as he was part of that discussion) although my other five nieces were OK about it. I would have thought she would have known me better than that. Seems I was wrong!

The moral of the story is know your audience - or in this case, reader

quote:Originally posted by honey lamb
More recently one of my nieces took umbrage of something that I was posting on Facebook (as GJ can testify as he was part of that discussion) although my other five nieces were OK about it. I would have thought she would have known me better than that. Seems I was wrong!


I still can't understand why anyone would think you were the Wicked Aunty... [:?]

This forum really is a very placid place compared to the rest of teh interwebs. Sometimes it's too damn placid for my taste but then, I'm an enfant terrible or even, as The Founder Himself once called me, an agent provocateur. But I do have a heart of gold, right Neil? [?] [}:)]

GJ

[Scrooge]

I decided to stay out of this conversation due to the fact that if someone annoys me, I tend to let them know, though I have chilled out a little.

So after a rather fine dinner at one of Las Vegas's better steak houses in which I had to send back a steak due to the fact that it instead of being medium it was, shall we say a good vet away from being alive again and they served the red wine cold ! philistines !! but this down time did give me some time to think.

Is there elitism on this board, sure there is, are there cliques on here, sure there are.

Elitism happens on every travel board, there will always be some idiot who has to jump up and down yelling 'look at me look at me, I have XXXXX card, I travel in first, my s**t doesn't smell when I go #2' it happens, move on, ignore them or laugh at the behind their back or if your bigger than them, to their face [:D]

Saying that, if anyone here feels someone is getting out of line with them drop one of the mods a line, we will look into it, it is not unknown for us to contact a member and nicely ask them to knock it off.

Cliques,yes there certainly are some on here, as I said, the big one is the Mods, we've known each other both on here and off here for at least a couple of years, we talk in private and heck even go to dinner with each other, yes even LRoM !
If you go over to Dr V's bar chat you will see another clique, some would say cult, but I will stick with clique. They are all over this place AND all over the net on any forum, heck look at the Dibb( though I would say that is a cult and I will not take any arguments on that) the place is full of them.

I guess what I am saying is, this topic comes along every now and again, the thing to remember is VF is a family, a highly dysfunctional family, but a family non the less, what we have to remember is that as a family there will always be that strange uncle who shows up at Christmas dinner and does stuff that makes us wonder about blood lines, however at no point does it get to the point where people start being mean to each other (except you know who from you know where) and then it is done in jest.

Frankly I am amazed at the low turn over of the membership here, that makes it clear to me that on the whole things are going ok.

quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
This forum really is a very placid place compared to the rest of teh interwebs. Sometimes it's too damn placid for my taste but then, I'm an enfant terrible or even, as The Founder Himself once called me, an agent provocateur.


Indeed it is, but ...

quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
... Is there elitism on this board, sure there is, are there cliques on here, sure there are.

Elitism happens on every travel board ...

Cliques,yes there certainly are some on here, as I said, the big one is the Mods ...

If you go over to Dr V's bar chat you will see another clique, some would say cult, but I will stick with clique. They are all over this place AND all over the net on any forum ...

Frankly I am amazed at the low turn over of the membership here, that makes it clear to me that on the whole things are going ok.


Thanks Scrooge, a lot of bloody good common sense in your post. It's sad if people feel singed, in life you sometimes have to dust yourself down, stand up again and go back, or choose not to. I'll trust the mods to lock down any chat that is offensive or bullying, but as Scrooge says, seems a lot of people stay for a long time so that's a broad indicator something is working.

The world is full of a rich mix of experiences that shape views and personalities . Respect, manners and common sense is not something everybody intuitively understands but V-Flyers understand this better than most - you only have to take time out to read previous posts to see it works and why it is important.

There is no place for bully tactics or offensive remarks, but with monitoring from our great team of Mods already in place, I too feel we have the right balance.

quote:Originally posted by Scrooge

If you go over to Dr V's bar chat you will see another clique, some would say cult


Who you calling a cult...?

Lovely post, Scrooge. The only point I'd contest is going to the mods if someone offends you...go to the bloody offender first and make your case. If they don't see the light, then consider a mod. But don't go running to mummy first...

GJ

quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes

Well if you're going to consult the Chicago manual you might as well consult Uri Geller for your lottery numbers...the AP Style Guide is the only one of substance.

Plus, the British are just wrong. [}:)]

GJ


Depends on whether you're a journo hack or a serious academic, I suppose. AP for the great unwashed, CMOS for the elites, I guess? [;)]

The BH just turned in a book with an academic press, and it was CMOS all the way.

Though in all honesty this site has got a little elitist on occaision and I have been singed once or twice. Hense a slight nervousness to post as often.

I just feel the need to highlight what I initally commented on the original thread, I don't want this to turn in to some how very dare you routine, it wasn't a huge statement of dusgust by myself or a slamming of the site in general, I made a point of balancing my comments by adding I still loved the site and also that generally this site was friendlier than others, I have also highlighted above
a few words which dilute what I was getting accross.

In truth it was one particular member and a couple of friends that appeared to have got some personal self gratification from being a bit clever and answering a question and adding a little subtle slap in the face for sport at the end and then people skipping to the thumbs up button. Thing is this doesn't only offend the victim but can also tarnish the look of the site to others reading it.

In future as has been suggested I will deal with and or ignore this
member in future and the elitist replies, though i also don't wish to open myself up to any further nut kicking in private where no one can see it either.

No doubt some people like to be acidic to people they know they are unlikely to meet and when they do it too much on one forum they will move on to the next.

So I would just like to emphasise in the majority my post was actually complimentary and not an attack on the site, wake up call perhaps to those that should draw the line that has humour and witty jibes on one side and insulting insinuations on the other.

What I will not do is skulk off dejected or put up and shut up because its easier for other people to say get over it or deal with it, that mentality is one bullies thrive in especially if they get to engratiate themselves with you first, I am a paying member and as such have a right to indicate if the site has prooved in someway difficult at any given time. I have paid to support the site and I would hope the site and its members would support me too ( which has been demonstrated by several kind messages ).

Now if any member doesn't like me I would just say keep that opinion to yourself and any jibes, always best I think to answer a post and not the poster.

Thanks for your support.

Elitist? Moi? or should I say 'nous?'

quote:Originally posted by Scrooge

Elitism happens on every travel board, there will always be some idiot who has to jump up and down yelling 'look at me look at me, I have XXXXX card, I travel in first, my s**t doesn't smell when I go #2' it happens, move on, ignore them or laugh at the behind their back or if your bigger than them, to their face [:D]


I guess what I am saying is, this topic comes along every now and again, the thing to remember is VF is a family, a highly dysfunctional family, but a family non the less, what we have to remember is that as a family there will always be that strange uncle who shows up at Christmas dinner and does stuff that makes us wonder about blood lines, however at no point does it get to the point where people start being mean to each other (except you know who from you know where) and then it is done in jest.




I have to agree with the above, when joining a few years back I posted a rather silly question without really searching (it was about Amenity packs! Calm yourself GJ!) I was gently shown how the forum works and have always felt welcome.

There will be always times where a thread gets heated or something is misread, hell I've done it and sure it will happen again. As others have said it is very difficult to see the tone in which it is written. I would hope someone PM me if I were to upset someone and likewise it goes the other way.

Just hope that you continue to post and be an active member, as I do love reading your TR's and posts.

quote:Originally posted by DMetters-Bone
(it was about Amenity packs! Calm yourself GJ!)

[ii]

GJ

quote:Originally posted by DMetters-Bone

I have to agree with the above, when joining a few years back I posted a rather silly question without really searching (it was about Amenity packs! Calm yourself GJ!) I was gently shown how the forum works and have always felt welcome.

There will be always times where a thread gets heated or something is misread, hell I've done it and sure it will happen again.


Dom - I am with you. I think we have all had those experiences, I know I have. Such is life in the virtual world with V-Flyer is part of.

Since then I have learned, posted with more confidence and humour, and made a great deal of friends on here. Infact I am going away with a group of them tomorrow and very much looking forward to it [y]

HG

quote:Originally posted by hackneyguy

Since then I have learned, posted with more confidence and humour, and made a great deal of friends on here. Infact I am going away with a group of them tomorrow and very much looking forward to it [y]

HG


[y][y][y]

and we promise not to trash the CH or the plane !

Sorry but frankly as a new member I've picked up on an elitism and you shouldn't feel sorry for also expressing that. So what where you sit on the plane? It's better to travel....

quote:Originally posted by TikiJon
Sorry but frankly as a new member I've picked up on an elitism and you shouldn't feel sorry for also expressing that. So what where you sit on the plane? It's better to travel....


Even better than expressing it is A) confronting it constructively and directly with th perpetrators and providing some examples in this thread so we can best understand the issue and work to correct it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can only read this as vague innuendo.

Thank you.

GJ

Unfortunately, the answer above perfectly illustrates the problem with A) disregarding someone who was honestly expressing their feelings an apparently pompous attitude C) using too many unhelpful lettered lists...

Sorry - I too am a new member who's been put off by the obvious elitism on here. It's not something that I'm that bothered about or was even intending to discuss. It's easy to solve - I just won't renew my membership this year.

When you think about it, the slide into elitism is inevitable on a 'fans' site like this. Most people who want to join and contribute are likely to be regular Virgin flyers. That means they probably have more disposable income than the average or are traveling on business accounts. Either way, the topic of conversation does seem to be biased towards clubhouse access, quality of food in UC and whether cabin staff address you by name. None of which interest or effect the vast majority of Virgin users - but that doesn't really matter because they're not here!

quote:Originally posted by Capt.Pag
Unfortunately, the answer above perfectly illustrates the problem with A) disregarding someone who was honestly expressing their feelings an apparently pompous attitude C) using too many unhelpful lettered lists...


D) Snarky! [:p] How can you say the poster was being disregarded? I was trying to get some tangible examples of what constituted elitism in their mind so that they could be addressed (and, if warranted, mitigated) by anyone in this forum.

Helpful to that pursuit, however, is your own post. Your answer reveals that, for you, the presence of elitism on the site is generally the result of too many postings about the Upper Class experience. The good news is that there is absolutely nothing inherent about the site design, mission, membership requirements or any other functional or spiritual aspect of the site that either suppresses Y or PE class travelers or that falsely elevates UC travelers. All are welcome.

I would also argue that there is a huge difference between [I'm going to numbers now, letter lists are so de trop]:

1) A trip report where the Upper Class experience was reported, appreciated and recommended to any and all who might have the opportunity to experience it and,

2) A trip report with sneering references to 'steerage,' the 'hoi polloi' or other pejorative references to Y or PE passengers as a class of person.

Thankfully, instances of the former vastly outweigh the latter.

I can only hope, Captain, that the mere reporting of travel in Upper Class does not lead you to instantly assume that a malignant elitism infects the heart of every UC poster here and, further, leads you to tar those who do travel in that manner. They are lucky enough to have the experience -- whether rich as Croesus or finally able to get that miles reward after years of Y travel -- and do not deserve to be harshly judged by a class-conscious critic if they throw no tar themselves.

To do so would display an elitism more real -- and more regrettable -- than that more ethereal one at which a few have pointed their fingers in this thread.

GJ

I have found some really useful bits of information on this site that have helped me when flying. The information is not just limited to Virgin either; if I have a question, it has been answered in a very helpful and informative way. I often say to my Husband that I will have a trawl through v-flyer to see if I can find the answer.

Personally I think that all aspects of travelling with Virgin are interesting to read, and if there is a lack of information that spans all classes of travel it would be great for all to contribute to even out the disparity. Now that would make an ever better read for me.

I am sure that the moderators would find it useful if the types of elitism could be sited. If you feel that you have been victim to this, then it must leave a bad taste in the mouth and I am sure that the moderators could then be on the lookout for it cropping up in the future. It would be a real shame to lose those members and their contributions.

I think all contributions to the site are very useful and there have been lots of interesting topics with a wealth of information to be digested.

I'm a Y flyer nearly everytime I take a flight.

I don't feel there is a 'elitism' on this site. There is a clique but this is to expected in any environment as people make friends. A lot of the most informed contributors on this site have been members since the conception of this site and have been become good friends who do a lot together. Unlike most cliques where it's very difficult to get in to, the members on v-flyer have more than welcoming to inviting everyone to join them on social events.

The more informed contributors have also seen the most changes to VS so are in a position to whing and moan about the good old days of VS. Also, they in a position to give great hints and tips to problems or upcoming flights/holidays which everyone benefits from.

However, there can be times when a certain topic or question might enrage a member. This is where a pause before posting from ALL members might be needed.

As for the bias to UC, I don't think there is. There might be more threads about UC experience but I think that's more down to the very varied levels of service in this cabin that either irate or please flyers/posters. Most people at the back, including me, are more happy to get from A to B.

With any website you tend to get more posts about bad experiences and not many people will post if the flight was as expected.

Agreed, there will a section of people that will not be interested in the UC experience but I for one love reading the Trip Reports posted on this site for all cabins and all airlines.

Love and Peace![:X]

with the bias to UC and threads about it UC etc I think that when people are paying with their own money and paying quite a few thousands of pounds and not get the experience or service they quite expect of course people are going to voice their concern about it.

I am not dismissing Y at all but when someone is paying 300 to go to NYC there isn't much one can expect than to be fed, watered, and get there safely. Now please don't all jump on this, I am just trying to make a comparison, of course people have expectations no matter what cabin they fly and I haven't found any thread that people have dismissed them becuase they are flying Y.