Elitism on the forum?

I've been staying off this thread, as feel its getting a bit out of hand...

we're new, we fly purely for leisure, we've never flown via booked UC, we're based in the north (bulk of regulars generally seem to be southern based), so don't generally fit the generic characteristics.
I've done cheeky TR's which some may take the wrong way, but hey thats just my sense of humour.. we've saved for bl...dy ages to upgrade a future trip, and I find the insights into peoples experiences enlightening.
Recent York gathering, has shown that people are people and no matter the size of your seat, we all travel & have experiences to share (else we wouldn't be reading this?). There will always be a leaning towards UC reports, as its the business people/ those with more disposable income who travel more frequently.
I think the need for more non UC TR's is needed.. o.k. maybe its a dull flight with not much to report, but they all count, and usually something happens which could be entertaining/ funny for the reader. Highflyers recent report being the obvious..
If the site starts walking on eggshells it will loose its position which sets it out from many of the main flying sites, which from my viewing appear more interesting in one-upmanship on who's got the most/ highest loyalty card & how self important you are etc.. Lets not go down that route...

NH

[Decker]

My tupporth... historically some members of the board have referred disparagingly to shell suited oiks, cattle class etc. Some members have referred disparagingly to toffs, snobs etc. When this started the contributors were well known and it was easy to see that this was light hearted banter intended to amuse not offend. As the site has grown newer members may have seen this and considered it acceptable language and emulated it. By accepting it we have implicitly made it acceptable. Personally I'd prefer that such descriptions were never used as I consider them to be exclusionary and pejorative..

I don't believe we're elitist but I can concur with previously expressed views that subgroups can and have sprung up within the site. This is inevitable and there is no reason to prevent it from happening. We are not a state run institution with codified standards of member treatment. HOWEVER as has also been made clear, at EVERY V-Flyer social ALL are welcome and ALL are made to feel welcome. The truth is the subgroups love to see new people come along and go out of their way to include them. We also welcome other newer members suggesting and organising socials. Heck throw a tupperware party and I can guarantee some of us will turn up.

So elitist? No. Cliquey? If a clique is solely defined by in jokes then yes. If however it has to not be welcoming to outsiders and act to preserve the limited membership of the clique then no.

[Scrooge]

Just to touch on the 'flying UC' thing, what a lot of people are forgetting is that people join here having predominantly flown in Y or PE, they one day dream of flying in UC, so after saving their hard earned money or miles they get the chance to take what may be a once in a lifetime trip and then they post a report here about it, take a look, there are many such reports.

Now, taking that mod hat off for a sec.

If it comes down to having members who travel mostly in Y and PE but get to take that UC trip and post a report about it or having your regular UC travelers post a report I know which one I would take.

When it comes down to it many of the people who fly UC the most don't even post a TR, for the simple fact that there is very little in their eyes to report, frankly unless it's one of a few people posting I don't even read TR's anymore, or off course if there is something that requires my attention from a mod POV

Hat back on

What I would ask everyone to remember is that we are (by most standards) a pretty easy going forum, if someone wants to act like a twit we let them, chances are they will be ignored and go away, it beats the running around slapping members on the wrist that I see in other forums.

I am a little disconcerted that my comments are being misconstrued as
me having a problem with UCS pax or frequent/business pax or even people who write trippies rather tongue in cheek. Thats so not the case, I travel a couple of times a year in UCS, I know and have learned a lot about UCS from this site alone, in fact it is this very
site that has made me a loyal VA customer. I have also done some what I would consider cheeky parody type TRs.

When I was using the word Elitist I was more refering to the manner in which an answer was being worded to others, not all of the time not some of the time but occaisionally but enough to dissuade me from posting as often and yes even slightly regretfull for stumping up another 50 to stay a member and then thinking is this what I just signed up to it didn't happen over my last few years membership?. A jokey jovial tone is one thing but an elitist sometimes cutting responce in order to belittle another member for the amusement of other members and to collect thumbs ups, or jump around clicking a thumbs up when a buddy adds another cutting yet seemingly impossible to challenge put down is not acceptable, and preference of cabin choice doesn't have anything to do with it.

I know GJ you would love me to name and shame but I feel that would be crass. it would also encourage more of the same in any case I wouldn't know which one to choose and though it isn't you I am sure your already aware.

Can all members please be assured that this thread was in no way a general statement about class of travel nor even good old fashioned fun, it was more to do with the way in which answers are delivered which has been more often aloof or elitist with ulterior motif and aim of self satisfaction/gratification..

[Nottingham Nick]

quote:Originally posted by easygoingeezer
I am a little disconcerted that my comments are being misconstrued as
me having a problem with UCS pax or frequent/business pax or even people who write trippies rather tongue in cheek.....

I don't think it was any sort of personal sleight against you, or your original post. It is just that, as the debate developed, different aspects of elitism / arrogance / disrespect were introduced into the mix.

At the end of the day, I think there is broad agreement that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but no one is forced to agree with them. Strong debate will always lead to disagreement, but shouldn't lead to personal attacks.

I remember a line from one of the many diversity days I have attended 'Challenge the opinion, not the person.' That is what we try to encourage on this site.

Nick

Eeasygoinggeezer,

I think it is good that you have sited a type of elitism without naming and shaming, and perhaps it will give everyone food for thought as to how their replies are worded in the future.

It was good that you raised the subject, as it has brought forth lots of opinion and hopefully made us all aware of how carefully we must word things.

quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
quote:Originally posted by easygoingeezer
I am a little disconcerted that my comments are being misconstrued as
me having a problem with UCS pax or frequent/business pax or even people who write trippies rather tongue in cheek.....

I don't think it was any sort of personal sleight against you, or your original post. It is just that, as the debate developed, different aspects of elitism / arrogance / disrespect were introduced into the mix.

At the end of the day, I think there is broad agreement that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but no one is forced to agree with them. Strong debate will always lead to disagreement, but shouldn't lead to personal attacks.

I remember a line from one of the many diversity days I have attended 'Challenge the opinion, not the person.' That is what we try to encourage on this site.

Nick


Thankyou so much, truly the furthest thing from my mind is and was to disrespect the site, it was more to try and retain the fun loving friendly yet professional community that I had grown accustomed to.

Thank you too ClaireAW

quote:Originally posted by easygoingeezer
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
quote:Originally posted by easygoingeezer
I am a little disconcerted that my comments are being misconstrued as
me having a problem with UCS pax or frequent/business pax or even people who write trippies rather tongue in cheek.....

I don't think it was any sort of personal sleight against you, or your original post. It is just that, as the debate developed, different aspects of elitism / arrogance / disrespect were introduced into the mix.

At the end of the day, I think there is broad agreement that everyone is entitled to their opinions, but no one is forced to agree with them. Strong debate will always lead to disagreement, but shouldn't lead to personal attacks.

I remember a line from one of the many diversity days I have attended 'Challenge the opinion, not the person.' That is what we try to encourage on this site.

Nick


Thankyou so much, truly the furthest thing from my mind is and was to disrespect the site, it was more to try and retain the fun loving friendly yet professional community that I had grown accustomed to.

Thank you too ClaireAW


EGG, I fear I've turned you into an omelette! My apologies...I was less than clear. [:I]

My point vis a vis your OP (for I never thought you, too, were bemoaning UC TRs, etc) was that I thought you and any other individual who felt aggrieved should approach the perpetrator VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE to have a chat about the transgression, not name/shame in public. The only naming I was hoping for was a concrete example or two of the type of offenses you were upset about, minus the name of the perp. Capt. Pag, for instance, helped us out by being very concrete about his impressions

Now, I completely understand the type of elitism you had in mind -- snotty responses to posts. Again, I never thought you were referencing UC, et al.

Sometimes I do have a wee bit of sarcastic fun in a post, but it's always tongue in cheek and when it's not I do a good job of making that very clear. I'm absolutely guilty of the offenses Decker enumerates in his post above...but in all honesty, whilst I love UC, nice hotels, etc., I have no sense that this makes me a better. I celebrate anyone who travels and learns more about the world -- whether with a backpack and a hostel or Vuitton and the Ritz.

I hope you have a lovely weekend!

GJ

[Decker]

Thanks for the clarification EGG - makes much more sense now. Personally I've never seen your comments as putting the site down - rsther protecting how it ought to be. What I think you're suggesting may be the problem is condescension not elitism if I may so stoop to reply [;)]. As for GJ - we've always known wither your tongue is [:P]

quote:Originally posted by Decker
As for GJ - we've always known wither your tongue is [:P]


I said 'cheek.' Entirely accurate... [:I]

GJ

[Decker]

quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
quote:Originally posted by Decker
As for GJ - we've always known wither your tongue is [:P]


I said 'cheek.' Entirely accurate... [:I]

GJ



I actually felt the need to give you a thumbs up for that one myself,
in a manner of speaking...oh dear what have I done[:o)]

quote:Originally posted by easygoingeezer
quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
quote:Originally posted by Decker
As for GJ - we've always known wither your tongue is [:P]


I said 'cheek.' Entirely accurate... [:I]

GJ





I actually felt the need to give you a thumbs up for that one myself,
in a manner of speaking...oh dear what have I done[:o)]


Hey! I felt that! [:0]

GJ

quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
quote:Originally posted by easygoingeezer
quote:Originally posted by GrinningJackanapes
quote:Originally posted by Decker
As for GJ - we've always known wither your tongue is [:P]


I said 'cheek.' Entirely accurate... [:I]

GJ





I actually felt the need to give you a thumbs up for that one myself,
in a manner of speaking...oh dear what have I done[:o)]


Hey! I felt that! [:0]

GJ


If you say so[:p]

[Darren Wheeler]

[y]

[Scrooge]

Thank you all for the last couple of posts, even in what I would consider a 'serious' thread I find myself laughing [y]

quote:Originally posted by Decker
Personally I'd prefer that such descriptions were never used as I consider them to be exclusionary and pejorative..




Could I just point out that I consider it elitism to be wearing 2 hats at the same time [}:)]

quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
Thank you all for the last couple of posts, even in what I would consider a 'serious' thread I find myself laughing [y]

quote:Originally posted by Decker
Personally I'd prefer that such descriptions were never used as I consider them to be exclusionary and pejorative..




Could I just point out that I consider it elitism to be wearing 2 hats at the same time [}:)]


Well noticed!! [oo][oo][oo]

[Decker]

quote:
Just to touch on the 'flying UC' thing, what a lot of people are forgetting is that people join here having predominantly flown in Y or PE, they one day dream of flying in UC, so after saving their hard earned money or miles they get the chance to take what may be a once in a lifetime trip and then they post a report here about it, take a look, there are many such reports.

Now, taking that mod hat off for a sec.

If it comes down to having members who travel mostly in Y and PE but get to take that UC trip and post a report about it or having your regular UC travelers post a report I know which one I would take.

When it comes down to it many of the people who fly UC the most don't even post a TR, for the simple fact that there is very little in their eyes to report, frankly unless it's one of a few people posting I don't even read TR's anymore, or off course if there is something that requires my attention from a mod POV

Hat back on

What I would ask everyone to remember is that we are (by most standards) a pretty easy going forum, if someone wants to act like a twit we let them, chances are they will be ignored and go away, it beats the running around slapping members on the wrist that I see in other forums.

Scrooge


[:w]