Increased Security Measures implemented

[Nottingham Nick]

I don't have any problem with sitting in my seat - provided I have acces to a book or magazine. It is just the thought of having nothing to do for the last hour that bugs me.

Nick

quote:Originally posted by slinky09
anyone know why VS is still implementing the 1hr+ pre-landing lock down? That's one that really irritates me ...


Think of the money they save in booze and food. [:p]

quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
I don't have any problem with sitting in my seat - provided I have acces to a book or magazine. It is just the thought of having nothing to do for the last hour that bugs me.

Nick

quote:Think of the money they save in booze
Get a few extra in the minutes before then [|)]
or time to organize a sing-song![:w]

quote:Originally posted by MrSquare
Slinky,

I can only state the obvious and say it's probably what the pilots discretion has chosen... [;)]


Securing a cabin of 450 on a 747 to MCO is very different to securing the UC cabin where you may be working, sleeping, enjoying a drink at the bar or whatever. In reality, the lock down could be 90 minutes or more since they start 1 hr out from landing but that always extends with air traffic and ground movements. That's what irritates, it's such a long time of total wastefulness and other airlines manage to do it much more efficiently. Not least not being able to pee!

It's all such a load of absolute b*********, coming home out of LAX new years eve there was nothing different in the security process at all,no pat downs no bag searches ziltch. Nothing has ever happened after someone has passed through US security just our 3rd world airports then!!!!!!

quote:Originally posted by slinky09
quote:Originally posted by MrSquare
Slinky,

I can only state the obvious and say it's probably what the pilots discretion has chosen... [;)]


Securing a cabin of 450 on a 747 to MCO is very different to securing the UC cabin where you may be working, sleeping, enjoying a drink at the bar or whatever. In reality, the lock down could be 90 minutes or more since they start 1 hr out from landing but that always extends with air traffic and ground movements. That's what irritates, it's such a long time of total wastefulness and other airlines manage to do it much more efficiently. Not least not being able to pee!


Your right - it was infact more like 2 hrs on my flight; 30 mins warning, 60 mins + before landing then to get to the gate. There was a big rush to the loo in the terminal I can tell you . . . .

[Darren Wheeler]

Full body scanners are coming

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8438355.stm

80,000 each is peanuts, relatively speaking. Now watch the airport operators wriggle over who pays.

Campaigners against will have a field day.

quote:Originally posted by Darren Wheeler
Full body scanners are coming

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8438355.stm

80,000 each is peanuts, relatively speaking. Now watch the airport operators wriggle over who pays.

Campaigners against will have a field day.


well we as pax will eventually pay. as for the campaigners against some need a good slap!

One said the new scanners are 'tantamount to a stripsearch'. Well there is a BIG diffrence between a scan and someone putting their hands on you dear. Surely this will reduce the number of people being touched by a total stranger.

As to those that say the scanners wont detect 'x' or 'y' substance well they said that about the current scanners and and x-raying bags. Are they seriously advocating there should be no security measures as that is the logical conclusion to their argument.

I flew LGW to MCO new years day. there was an announcement that the cabin would be locked won an hour before landing. due to turbulence the seat belt sign came on about 70 mins out. they then announced when it went off there would be 15 mins to use the loos. It finally went back on with no IFE 30 mins from touchdown.

quote:Originally posted by flabound
I flew LGW to MCO new years day. there was an announcement that the cabin would be locked won an hour before landing. due to turbulence the seat belt sign came on about 70 mins out. they then announced when it went off there would be 15 mins to use the loos. It finally went back on with no IFE 30 mins from touchdown.


Good use of Captain's discretion. [^][^]

They have had the body scanners at Moscow airport (DME) for some time.
I didn't see anyone have any objection at all!

Much better than pat downs - quicker and much less invasive.

But this would be better again!

quote:Originally posted by Bill S
[quote][i]

But this would be better again![/url]


brilliant, do you think they can Israelise Heathrow by the middle of May2010?

quote:Originally posted by Bill S
They have had the body scanners at Moscow airport (DME) for some time.
I didn't see anyone have any objection at all!

Much better than pat downs - quicker and much less invasive.


Or, provide both body scanners and manual pat down plus whatever, and then the pax has the choice. As long as the body scanners have shorter lines than the manual pat down, then people will use them, and you still have a choice. (Note to BAA idiots: that means have to put in place enough body scanners and people to operate them).

H

In Moscow there were long lines for border control - absolutely no line for the body scanners at all!
Very quick and simple. There seemed to be very few alarms - far fewer than usual with the metal detector gates - so although each 'scan' took a few seconds longer, the overall process was much quicker.
I would guess that the much better visualisation resulted in the very few false alarms.

The quicker they are installed the better - but the real problem will be in training and getting suitable personnel to operate them.

I don't know if its just me that is thinking this, but the press have been reporting the new method of actually planting a bomb inside someone, and that the new full body scanners would not be able to detect this.

I did have a thought as to why a number of sniffer dogs are not employed and after every scan, each passenger must face a sniff? It seems relatively simple to me, and personally think it would be more effective at smelling out explosives.

Is this possible? [?]

I dont think sniffer dogs are the answer. They are highly trained which takes a long time and is v expensive and they can't actually work for that long a period before they need a rest.

For a airport the size of LHR or LGW they would need dozens and dozens of them.

Plus I and a lot of people don't like dogs etc and having a dog near me would make me nervous and that then causes suspicions.

THere are some scanners that can carry out 'sniff' tests but I think these are still in the testing . No doubt some campaigner would complain about this interfeering with their right to wear perfume !

What happened to the scanners that puffs air at you to detect any explosives, have been through that one coming back from Vegas, and also the full body scan one.

quote:Originally posted by Penny_L
What happened to the scanners that puffs air at you to detect any explosives, have been through that one coming back from Vegas, and also the full body scan one.

Too much trouble - don't work'

quote:Originally posted by MrSquare
I don't know if its just me that is thinking this, but the press have been reporting the new method of actually planting a bomb inside someone, and that the new full body scanners would not be able to detect this.


Al Qaeda apparently tried this, to assassinate a Saudi politician. The would be assassin did not realize the strength of his own body to contain the explosion [:$].

But once again, Brown and that silly Lord Adonis miss the point. Failing physical security was the second act in error (if that is fair, since no existing scanning process would have detected the powder). The first and much more important remains the abject failure of intelligence, security and wit.

So, like the stupid sitting down rule, everyone gets beamed but the terrorists go through without an single probing question. Hmm. How much would a more successful strategy cost?

quote:Originally posted by Bill S
In Moscow there were long lines for border control - absolutely no line for the body scanners at all!
Very quick and simple. There seemed to be very few alarms - far fewer than usual with the metal detector gates - so although each 'scan' took a few seconds longer, the overall process was much quicker.
I would guess that the much better visualisation resulted in the very few false alarms.

The quicker they are installed the better - but the real problem will be in training and getting suitable personnel to operate them.


Got to agree Bill. My first experience of the scanners were in DME and the screening was very good.
Roll them out I say.

Iain

How many people, on average are doing the patting down bit anyway? Been looking at VS027 and VS028 (LGW-MCO and back) the last couple of days and the flights are leaving between 1h30-1h45 late on average (occasionally making some time up so only 45 mins or so late landing). Last time I looked at the load for my flight, it was about half full so what's causing so much in the way of delays? Lack of people, taking their time etc?

The main reason for delays?

Usually down to pax not being ready for security - that is ANY security check not just the additional ones - number of times we have seen pax at security not taking coats off, putting phones and coins in hand baggage etc (the same ones who then moan about the time they have been waiting), alongside with basically not doing what they are told. THese are the real reasons for delays not generally de to lack of staff (thogh that of course does happen).

Same reason why there are sometimes log queues at check-in because some pax wait until they get to the desk before finding their passports and tickets etc and this then just delays everyone.

Also pax just wandering around the terminal thinking 'lets do a bit of shopping - the plane will wait'

Lock downs for adults are bad enough but on a plane bound for MCO I guess around 100 are under 10. It's difficult enough getting a 5 year old to 'hold on' for 10 minutes let alone 60.

I think wet seats and funny walks may be on the cards post landing.

FM

[Nottingham Nick]

According to the VS facebook page, 'Our hand baggage allowances are now back to normal. However, extra security measures at the airport, still remain in place for all flights to the USA.'

Currently no reply to the passenger who asked if the one hour 'lock down' still applies.

Nick

That's good to hear, I heard it was being reviwed today. If it means I don't get shouted at at work again, I'm fine with that!

quote:Originally posted by Lizz
That's good to hear, I heard it was being reviwed today. If it means I don't get shouted at at work again, I'm fine with that!


Amazing because since Christmas Day when this all kicked off, if anything passengers have become a lot more understanding regarding security issues. As long as we explained everything that was happening, there have been no problems and definitely no shouting.

[:)]