Anyone know for sure?
This is my most travelled itinerary and the toss-up between BA and UA is not thrilling me at present. [n]
This is my most travelled itinerary and the toss-up between BA and UA is not thrilling me at present. [n]
I can see flight availability from 27 May through to 12 September. A very short season and I'm mystified if VS think this is enough to lure business travellers. Still, it's one of my favourite routes too and at least it's back for a bit.
Depending on where you need to go, Delta to MSP for example isn't a bad alternative. If Chicago is your end destination then it's the horror or UA or the trials of BA!
Depending on where you need to go, Delta to MSP for example isn't a bad alternative. If Chicago is your end destination then it's the horror or UA or the trials of BA!
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Out of interest, is there a direct way to get that info from the VS site without the painstaking process of incrementing dates and seeing what works?
As you say, a very short season indeed! I noticed that VS did a lot of advertising and PR, particularly around the city of Chicago, when first reinstating the route. How will anyone know or care about this 'burp'? I've generally thought of Chicago as a business rather than tourist destination although it is, of course, a fantastic hub (geographically if not logistically speaking). So a few summer months with, what I now see, as only a Thu - Sun flying week, is a bit of joke of a route by VS standards; no? Perhaps it's just V Holidays that will fill the seats? Still, I might squeeze in 1 or 2 trips and perhaps UC will be a) cheaper and b) emptier than before. Good for the FC miles if nothing else.
BTW - I must give credit to UA for their revamped business class. Still the same grumpy service but dead comfy seats and good entertainment options.
As you say, a very short season indeed! I noticed that VS did a lot of advertising and PR, particularly around the city of Chicago, when first reinstating the route. How will anyone know or care about this 'burp'? I've generally thought of Chicago as a business rather than tourist destination although it is, of course, a fantastic hub (geographically if not logistically speaking). So a few summer months with, what I now see, as only a Thu - Sun flying week, is a bit of joke of a route by VS standards; no? Perhaps it's just V Holidays that will fill the seats? Still, I might squeeze in 1 or 2 trips and perhaps UC will be a) cheaper and b) emptier than before. Good for the FC miles if nothing else.
BTW - I must give credit to UA for their revamped business class. Still the same grumpy service but dead comfy seats and good entertainment options.
Expert Flyer shows VS flying the route as VS39 on an Airbus A-343. EF also shows the frequency as 'daily' so I checked loads on a couple of Tuesdays and Wednesdays and there are a few seats showing booked (aside from the usual bulkhead/exit blocked rows). I guess we wait and see what else VS may announce.
Chuck-
Chuck-
The schedule that I have show the VS39 as daily from 27 May until 12 September.
I find it odd that VS cannot make ORD work, OK it's a big hub airport for AA and UA, both have three flights a day to Heathrow (AA four in the summer) and BA manages another three too, so there is competition. But it's a huge metropolitan area with lots of HQ'd business and great to visit - but this is well trodden ground.
I don't get that it's just a summer jaunt either, on lots of my winter flights there have been large numbers of people connecting to skiing destinations - better than some other options!
Maybe better co-ordination with VHolidays and VX (if it expands beyond just ORD-LAX) will help ...
I don't get that it's just a summer jaunt either, on lots of my winter flights there have been large numbers of people connecting to skiing destinations - better than some other options!
Maybe better co-ordination with VHolidays and VX (if it expands beyond just ORD-LAX) will help ...
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
We flew into Chicago with vs in June 2007 to start our route 66 road trip. Economy was almost empty then so we ended up with a whole row of seats each to lay out on. Sorry but can't remember what aircraft it was. I do remember though that the crew spent a lot of their time sitting talking to passengers.
quote:Originally posted by mfincham
I've generally thought of Chicago as a business rather than tourist destination although it is, of course, a fantastic hub (geographically if not logistically speaking)
We found Chicago to be a great place for a short break.
quote:Originally posted by Bill S
April/May '09 were very light loads in the A343.
It may become more economic when the 330s arrive.
When we flew out in April 09 (on an A346) there were 7 seats taken in UC. Though they weren't minded to provide an easy upgrade path (I think I was quoted 1500 pp + miles) it meant we got great service in PE...
I've generally thought of Chicago as a business rather than tourist destination although it is, of course, a fantastic hub (geographically if not logistically speaking)
We found Chicago to be a great place for a short break.
quote:Originally posted by Bill S
April/May '09 were very light loads in the A343.
It may become more economic when the 330s arrive.
When we flew out in April 09 (on an A346) there were 7 seats taken in UC. Though they weren't minded to provide an easy upgrade path (I think I was quoted 1500 pp + miles) it meant we got great service in PE...
We can get better, because we're not dead yet
quote:Originally posted by slinky09
I find it odd that VS cannot make ORD work, OK it's a big hub airport for AA and UA, both have three flights a day to Heathrow (AA four in the summer) and BA manages another three too, so there is competition. But it's a huge metropolitan area with lots of HQ'd business and great to visit - but this is well trodden ground.
But most of those companies have contracts with UA/AA so VS doesn't stand a chance there, then the companies that are not under contract have employees that are FF members, getting them away from UA/AA and asking them to give up their FF miles and status isn't easy, VS keeps trying ORD and keeps failing, time to move on.
I find it odd that VS cannot make ORD work, OK it's a big hub airport for AA and UA, both have three flights a day to Heathrow (AA four in the summer) and BA manages another three too, so there is competition. But it's a huge metropolitan area with lots of HQ'd business and great to visit - but this is well trodden ground.
But most of those companies have contracts with UA/AA so VS doesn't stand a chance there, then the companies that are not under contract have employees that are FF members, getting them away from UA/AA and asking them to give up their FF miles and status isn't easy, VS keeps trying ORD and keeps failing, time to move on.
In addition to what Scrooge says. I don't think VS tried that hard to make an impression at ORD.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, (remember them? [;)] ). The VS of old would have laid something special on.
They would have opened a super clubhouse, or put on a special plane with state of the art IFE, or something that would have grabbed the headlines and MADE people want to fly with them.
My experience was a very poor lounge, indifferent ground staff attitudes and a generally so-so flying experience - result - poor loads. Who would have thought it? [:w]
Nick
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, (remember them? [;)] ). The VS of old would have laid something special on.
They would have opened a super clubhouse, or put on a special plane with state of the art IFE, or something that would have grabbed the headlines and MADE people want to fly with them.
My experience was a very poor lounge, indifferent ground staff attitudes and a generally so-so flying experience - result - poor loads. Who would have thought it? [:w]
Nick
I've flown twice to ORD on VS.
First was in November in 2000 in Y. I seam to remember that both legs were very quiet (managed to collect several of the amenity kits - mum still uses the bag !) - and this was the week of Thanksgiving - flew to ORD on the Monday and returned on the Thursday. Don't remember the plane or details of the service etc
Second was in November 2008, travelled out the Thursday of the week before thanksgiving and returned the day before. Upgraded from PE to UC both ways at LHR no problem so was in UC and it was pretty full both legs but think I was told the back was pretty quiet. Was the A340-300 on the way out but the A340-600 on the way back.
The JAL lounge was just adequate - limited drinks and only pre-bagged snacks and no UK newspapers / magazines, there was wi-fi but no use as I had no laptop and no free ones to use (whihc would have been handy). I knew before it was no CH but to be homest it was worse than the servisair lounge in T3 at LHR interms of drinks / snacks / paper choices (which also had views) - so that was a dissapointment. There were no specific VS 'touches' other than the minder being in a VS uniform.
I agree Chicago is a fab destination - which is why I went both trips, not to travel onwards. Perhaps if VH had promoted it more as a holiday destination (and not just for families) or an alternative to NYC for museums and shopping it might have been different. I do agree a summer only schedule is not going to get them much business from anyone.
First was in November in 2000 in Y. I seam to remember that both legs were very quiet (managed to collect several of the amenity kits - mum still uses the bag !) - and this was the week of Thanksgiving - flew to ORD on the Monday and returned on the Thursday. Don't remember the plane or details of the service etc
Second was in November 2008, travelled out the Thursday of the week before thanksgiving and returned the day before. Upgraded from PE to UC both ways at LHR no problem so was in UC and it was pretty full both legs but think I was told the back was pretty quiet. Was the A340-300 on the way out but the A340-600 on the way back.
The JAL lounge was just adequate - limited drinks and only pre-bagged snacks and no UK newspapers / magazines, there was wi-fi but no use as I had no laptop and no free ones to use (whihc would have been handy). I knew before it was no CH but to be homest it was worse than the servisair lounge in T3 at LHR interms of drinks / snacks / paper choices (which also had views) - so that was a dissapointment. There were no specific VS 'touches' other than the minder being in a VS uniform.
I agree Chicago is a fab destination - which is why I went both trips, not to travel onwards. Perhaps if VH had promoted it more as a holiday destination (and not just for families) or an alternative to NYC for museums and shopping it might have been different. I do agree a summer only schedule is not going to get them much business from anyone.
Huzzah for International Jet-setting !
Well, you won't want to visit Chicago at this time of the year. So if anyone's going to make it work as a tourist destination, when snow in April is a reasonably frequent event, it's going to be on the current calendar. For a biz destination, VS needs to sort out how to compete with BA for UK-based passengers, it has no chance with US based ones for many reasons that have already been enumerated.
I did this a few times in the last four years, and it definitely was an underwhelming experience when used to flying out of SF. While that is a tough and unfair comparison in some ways, the check-in experience was regularly poor to fair, the security setup a total nightmare, the lounge worse than a Red Carpet or Admiral's club (and that is saying something). Absolutely no incentive whatsoever to fly VS here unless you happen to fly them regularly to other destinations. It's been said before, that is just not enough.
I slept better in UA's new C seat than I have in the bed I'm currently bunking in [:)]
UA is {more or less) FIFO for clearing upgrades before the flight goes DM. They actually have two FIFO lists, one for GS/1K, one for everyone else. I never had a problem clearing upgrades to LHR even back when I was Premier with them. Two things to note here. It's really FIFO - you add yourself to a list expressing your interest to upgrade, and when it becomes available you get it, in the order you requested it. Not only is this not totally status/fare driven, it actually favors lower status FFs who maybe fly more for leisure, but plan carefully to upgrade. And it avoids you having to check every day whether space has become available. Secondly, with a system like this the ability to set up a list that provides some level of priority to your highest status passengers provides a significant incentive to achieve that status - and we've had many discussions here about 'why be gold'. It's a bit harder to get 1K on UA than gold on VS, but the rewards are meaningful.
Not to even want to start a comparison thread between VS and NA airlines - in many ways they don't compare. But I do think the system for managing upgrades is much better both in how it practically works, and in how it provides some incentive for folks to achieve higher status with the airline.
I did this a few times in the last four years, and it definitely was an underwhelming experience when used to flying out of SF. While that is a tough and unfair comparison in some ways, the check-in experience was regularly poor to fair, the security setup a total nightmare, the lounge worse than a Red Carpet or Admiral's club (and that is saying something). Absolutely no incentive whatsoever to fly VS here unless you happen to fly them regularly to other destinations. It's been said before, that is just not enough.
I slept better in UA's new C seat than I have in the bed I'm currently bunking in [:)]
UA is {more or less) FIFO for clearing upgrades before the flight goes DM. They actually have two FIFO lists, one for GS/1K, one for everyone else. I never had a problem clearing upgrades to LHR even back when I was Premier with them. Two things to note here. It's really FIFO - you add yourself to a list expressing your interest to upgrade, and when it becomes available you get it, in the order you requested it. Not only is this not totally status/fare driven, it actually favors lower status FFs who maybe fly more for leisure, but plan carefully to upgrade. And it avoids you having to check every day whether space has become available. Secondly, with a system like this the ability to set up a list that provides some level of priority to your highest status passengers provides a significant incentive to achieve that status - and we've had many discussions here about 'why be gold'. It's a bit harder to get 1K on UA than gold on VS, but the rewards are meaningful.
Not to even want to start a comparison thread between VS and NA airlines - in many ways they don't compare. But I do think the system for managing upgrades is much better both in how it practically works, and in how it provides some incentive for folks to achieve higher status with the airline.
I agree with all the comments. Unless you have a compelling product, breaking US traveller's habits is a tough nut to crack. So yes, MarkedMan, pursuading business travellers needs a different approach but I do disagree about visiting Chicago in Winter, done it many times for business and pleasure. And I wholeheartedly agree that VS's increasingly crappy approach to maintaining its most frequent fliers will count against it given how UA and AA are so much more sophisticated.
Also agree with Nick:
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
In addition to what Scrooge says. I don't think VS tried that hard to make an impression at ORD.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, (remember them? [;)] ). The VS of old would have laid something special on.
It's looking tired compared to others ... there's no pizazz on the route.
Still miss it though [:#].
Also agree with Nick:
quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
In addition to what Scrooge says. I don't think VS tried that hard to make an impression at ORD.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, (remember them? [;)] ). The VS of old would have laid something special on.
It's looking tired compared to others ... there's no pizazz on the route.
Still miss it though [:#].
There's a plane at JFK, to fly you back from far away
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
all those dark and frantic transatlantic miles
Don't get me wrong, I'd go in Winter any time, even without the Cubs playing... I suppose my point was more that it just isn't peak holiday season, and even less so for Chicago, which has wx events such as the UK has experienced recently, but on a regular basis throughout winter. A Christmas shopping trip there/long weekend is just as feasible as NYC/BOS and, totally agree, every bit as compelling. I'd bet they analyzed their numbers thoroughly, though, and didn't see a very significant tourist bump until May, or it just doesn't make sense that they would have scheduled it the way they did.
Losing this route definitely played a role in my giving up on VS - I missed it too.
quote:Originally posted by slinky09
And I wholeheartedly agree that VS's increasingly crappy approach to maintaining its most frequent fliers will count against it given how UA and AA are so much more sophisticated.
Interesting thing about this is that it can be a double edged sword - when too many benefits accrue because of your FF status, there is a definite scenario of product devaluation as key fliers become locked in regardless of the quality of the actual product. It's clear US airlines have a bit of an issue here, specifically in that this decreases the yield in their premium cabins, yet they now have legions of FFers who'd pretty much pack up and leave if they weren't able to upgrade a $1000 intl 10+hr Y ticket to biz class. Diametrically opposite strategy to that of SQ, perhaps understandable given the very different histories of US carriers who barely flew outside NA, as opposed to SQ always carrying passengers on intercontinental routes.
VS does seem to be a bit challenged on both sides, it has to be said.
Losing this route definitely played a role in my giving up on VS - I missed it too.
quote:Originally posted by slinky09
And I wholeheartedly agree that VS's increasingly crappy approach to maintaining its most frequent fliers will count against it given how UA and AA are so much more sophisticated.
Interesting thing about this is that it can be a double edged sword - when too many benefits accrue because of your FF status, there is a definite scenario of product devaluation as key fliers become locked in regardless of the quality of the actual product. It's clear US airlines have a bit of an issue here, specifically in that this decreases the yield in their premium cabins, yet they now have legions of FFers who'd pretty much pack up and leave if they weren't able to upgrade a $1000 intl 10+hr Y ticket to biz class. Diametrically opposite strategy to that of SQ, perhaps understandable given the very different histories of US carriers who barely flew outside NA, as opposed to SQ always carrying passengers on intercontinental routes.
VS does seem to be a bit challenged on both sides, it has to be said.
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