Would this be allowed?

Flying to Dubai next year are 3 adults and 3 kids, 13, 10 and 4.

Will be redeeming miles and looking to book the adults into Upper and the kids in Y.

The 13 year old is very responsible and all kids are seasoned flyers.

er NO

and to be honest I am DISGUSTED you think this is even acceptable bahavour on your part as an ADULT !

THIRTEEN is not an responsible age to be in charge of younger siblings in the econ cabin whilst you and queencole are ensconced in UC.

Sorry to be blunt but talk about IRRESPONSIBLE parenting.

Now where is the phone number for Sussex County Council Social Ssrvices because if I had more info about you that is who I would be phoning.

Yes, it's possible. I've flown (several times) on the same flight as Dragonbaby when she was a bit younger but not in the same cabin (she was in PE and I was in UC). Granted she was 14/15 and she was classed as an unaccompanied minor on each flight with the requisite forms to complete.
DL

It can be done, they would have to go as unaccompanied minors.

I can't see why not. As children my sister and I flew many times unaccompanied from School to meet our parents and never had any problems - BA (or BOAC as it was) used to fly us with 'Sky Nannies' and it worked very well as I seem to recall.

quote:Originally posted by tontybear
er NO

and to be honest I am DISGUSTED you think this is even acceptable bahavour on your part as an ADULT !

THIRTEEN is not an responsible age to be in charge of younger siblings in the econ cabin whilst you and queencole are ensconced in UC.

Sorry to be blunt but talk about IRRESPONSIBLE parenting.

Now where is the phone number for Sussex County Council Social Ssrvices because if I had more info about you that is who I would be phoning.



The poster asked a question. I think it inappropriate that you question their ability to parent (and would suggest you either moderate or remove your post).All airlines fly UMs - my boarding school would have been full of pupils in the school holidays otherwise.
DL

Sorry but to me there is a difference between a child traveling as an unaccompanied minor (for all sorts of perfectly valid reasons) and one where the children are in econ and the parents in another cabin ON THE SAME PLANE.

In this case they cannot be 'unaccompanied' because I would imagine the children would check-in with said parents, probably go into the CH as parent are in UC, and board the plane as a family.

DL its different, because in my mind, because babyDL was not being left in charge of younger dragons.

quote:Originally posted by tontybear

In this case they cannot be 'unaccompanied' because I would imagine the children would check-in with said parents, probably go into the CH as parent are in UC, and board the plane as a family.


VS see this situation as being exactly that.Under 16 and in a different cabin = UM.

DL I am not going to moderate or remove my post. Our posts crossed.

What I said is my opinion.

There is a world of difference between a child/children having to traval alone (e.g. your boarding school pupils) and one where the parents were on on the same flight as their children and taking a deliberate decision to travel ON THE SAME PLANE but in a different class.

I fully accept the first as a valid reason but simply don't accept the latter.

To me that is a total abrogation of parental responsibility.

If all the children were teenagers, my moral compass would say why not? But you're asking a lot of a 13 year old to care for a 4 year old on a long night flight. Can you not have the little one with you and the teens on their own?

quote:Originally posted by tontybear
DL I am not going to moderate or remove my post. Our posts crossed.

What I said is my opinion.

There is a world of difference between a child/children having to traval alone (e.g. your boarding school pupils) and one where the parents were on on the same flight as their children and taking a deliberate decision to travel ON THE SAME PLANE but in a different class.

I fully accept the first as a valid reason but simply don't accept the latter.

To me that is a total abrogation of parental responsibility.



Whilst I accept that it is your opinion I do not believe that you have the right to label the poster an irresponsible parent (nor to threaten contacting the relevant statutory agencies).
This however is my opinion.

[Neil]

I agree with Slinky. If they were all teenagers then no poroblrm at all in my book, but the fact one of the children is only 4 makes me say no. Firstly, it is unfair on the 13 year old to have the responsibilty to look after them, but also
I don't think it would be fair on the other pax. I think it would be fairly resonable to expect at some point the young child to act up, or have some sort of issue and without a parent around to help control them it could cause an issue.

I have no idea what the legal situation is on this, but imagine that there would
be nothing stopping you doing it.

I also agree with DL, whilst we may not agree with what the OP has asked we shouldn't question there ability as a parent, this is not the place for such accusations.

Whilst Tonty has voiced a razor sharp opinion and possibly should not label the OP as a bad parent he/she is totally entitled to consider
that the proposed arrangement to be bad from their point of view.

If I had kids I don't think I would ever want less for them than I would want for myself.

We were in UC pre suites and two adults did this and then tried to get the toddler to occupy the space between their J seat and ours, the CC made it clear that either the child or one of the adults had to leave, in the end the dad went back to EC so no one saved any money.

In answer to the OP though it would appear the arrangement is quite possible irrespective of ones thoughts on the matter.

[honey lamb]

OK, my take on it as someone who is both a parent and a former manager of child protection services, albeit in a different jurisdiction. While I personally, think it inappropriate for a 13 year old to be responsible for a 4 year old for the length of a flight to Dubai, on a professional level there are more important things for social services to be investigating than a 4 year old in the care of siblings in the same vicinity as the parents. Social Services in any jurisdiction are stretched enough as it is.

My take would be that one adult should be in UC and one in Y given the age of the children. I would have said go for it but for the 4 year old. It puts a lot of responsibility on the others and also on the cabin crew in allowing access to you if there is a problem.

With regard to the children travelling as UMs there would be a problem with the 4 year old as VS do not accept UMs under the age of 5 even with siblings as they would all be UMs as under the age of 16 In other words the 4 year old has to be in the care of one or other parent either in UC or Y

If I offended anyone or appeared to cast apersions then I apologise - that was not my intention.

I was not saying / implying the OP was a 'bad parent' but to me, and admitedly I do not have children, any parent who is even proposing doing what the OP proposes needs to be challenged. I know my own mother would not have even considered it, but we were all brought up differently.

There is a difference, as I said before between children having to travel (for perfectly valid and acceptable reasons) 'solo' and those travelling in one cabin and the parents / guardians in another.

DL - social services in the UK has dealt with similar issues. Surely the primary concern is the safety of thechild(ren)? (and DL - to be clear I am not questioning you on this and personally I could not work on child protection issues so cudos to those that do)

I may be over sensitive to child protection issues because the organisation I work for was criticised as part of recent child protection issues (though I was personally not involved).

I posted the original question in the chat room of another (non travel related) site I am a member off. And apart from one comment of 'send then cargo' the responses were of the 'its really not on' nature.

Whilst many airlines may accept UA's as I said before there is a difference between a 'real' UA and one that is on the same plane as a parent but in a different class and I would like to think that VS (or indeed any airline) would pick up on this and challenge the parents.

quote:Originally posted by kingcole1974
Flying to Dubai next year are 3 adults and 3 kids, 13, 10 and 4.

Will be redeeming miles and looking to book the adults into Upper and the kids in Y.

The 13 year old is very responsible and all kids are seasoned flyers.




kingcole1974,

As a member of crew this is something I see very often and I would not be concerned. All the children would be considered UM and looked after by the crew. With the crew and the 13 year old to keep a watchful eye for the 6 hour flight it is really not a big deal. You can pop back and visit them whenever you want.

It is very common practice and I don't think any member of crew would raise an eyebrow to it. Just do not try and bring the children up to Upper Class. This is also very common and a major headache for the crew!

Hope this helped.

forgetting the moral arguments, how selfish are you -you can fly UC but the poor kids get EC. Why not trade the miles, compromise and all go PE ? Its only 5-6 hours FFS. Isn't part of the journey/experience/holiday thing -all about travelling together ? I know a guy who used to fly UC and dump his GF in econ (he worked for VS). Whats does that say about him- not first class but NO class.

[Darren Wheeler]

Ok, chill out.

The OP asked a question and it provoked an interesting response, but it's now starting to get personal.

Well thanks for the only sensible reply from the cabin crew, and also thanks for all the opinions of those who judged by decision to simply ask if this was possible.

I have not even investigated the plane layout yet, but it might even be possible for the kids to be literally one row behind - i dont know.

I am aware of the UM programs as myself and my kids have flown as UM's in the past, and I was also thinking (as someone did) whether this would be an official or unofficial UM situation.

I spend literally all my spare time giving it and and trying to do the right thing for my kids and others less fortunate and I really took offense from the 1st reply. Forgive my language, but that XXX word removed by mod (tonty whatever) hasnt a clue about me, and if anyone made a comment to my face, i would most likely throw a puch for the very 1st time in my life!

Shocking.


edit by mod to remove one word insult- remainder of post as is....Nick

[Nottingham Nick]

Above post edited to remove insult.

If this debate is to continue, please let it do so without personal insults to other posters.

Child care is a highly emotive subject, clearly bringing out strong views.

The OP asked for opinions as to whether his plan would be allowed, but got answers concerning the morality of it.

This is the danger of asking for opinions in a public forum. Sometimes that answers are not what you want to hear.

Any child care / morality debates are for the off topic forum. This area is for discussion about flying issues please.

Nick

quote:Originally posted by Nottingham Nick
Above post edited to remove insult.

If this debate is to continue, please let it do so without personal insults to other posters.

Child care is a highly emotive subject, clearly bringing out strong views.

The OP asked for opinions as to whether his plan would be allowed, but got answers concerning the morality of it.

This is the danger of asking for opinions in a public forum. Sometimes that answers are not what you want to hear.

Any child care / morality debates are for the off topic forum. This area is for discussion about flying issues please.

Nick


Thanks Nick,

I shudnt have sworn, and as it happens, my comment was not needed as he showed his full colours with his reply!

As you stated, I did only ask if it was possible - if it is/was then we can consider further options.

Before asking the question, myself, wifey and kids discussed a great deal.

We came to the conclusion to consider further as we noted a recent AA flight from LAX ot ORD when despite the family being booked together, all 4 of us were in different seats. Seat belts on for 2/3 of flight........ OK same cabin, was was a 757 so could have been 25+ rows apart!

I am considering our kids sitting 6' away behind a curtain, all sitting together!

Also, to counter the selfish argument, the kids wont benefit from the extra space, drink options or food, but we will all be able to enjoy family time in the clubhouse prior to flight.

quote:Originally posted by tontybear
er NO

and to be honest I am DISGUSTED you think this is even acceptable bahavour on your part as an ADULT !

THIRTEEN is not an responsible age to be in charge of younger siblings in the econ cabin whilst you and queencole are ensconced in UC.

Sorry to be blunt but talk about IRRESPONSIBLE parenting.

Now where is the phone number for Sussex County Council Social Ssrvices because if I had more info about you that is who I would be phoning.




I really couldn't agree with this more.

How you can be, as the OP describes, a 'seasonsed flyer' at the age of 4 I have no idea. I flew probably 30 times before the age of 5 and my parents still recall what a nightmare it was sometimes.

Extend this further; I assume in Dubai you will be staying in different rooms because the 13 year old is very responsible? Taking seperate taxis from the airport to the hotel? Why not go the whole hog and you guys go to Dubai and leave the 3 kids at home. After all, the 13 year old is 'very responsible'.

I'm sure many cabin crew will testify but it seems for some that logic goes out the window the moment people step onto a plane.

Despite what you may think, there will be a strong chance that your children will need to go from Economy to Upper Class and vice versa. If I were in Upper Class, trying to sleep, whilst children were ferried back and forth from Economy then I would be extremely annoyed. However clearly given your general attitude on this thread I doubt that would concern you.

Just to mention that, as well as the four year old being too young to be an Unaccompanied Minor, you will also need to pay full adult fare for the ten year old (thirteen year old is already at that stage!).

EC

[Darren Wheeler]

quote:Originally posted by Edna Cloud
Just to mention that, as well as the four year old being too young to be an Unaccompanied Minor, you will also need to pay full adult fare for the ten year old (thirteen year old is already at that stage!).

EC


Sorry, but the ages for VS are:
Infant - Under 2
Child - 2 to 11
Adult - 12+

The 4yo would not be classed as Unaccompanied as they are not travelling solo.

Farout people! This situation is not uncommon and my parents did this for me and my sister when flying from Australia to Europe for many years when we were young. It didn't make my parents bad parents and nor did we mind, my parents did so much for us kids and had a great upbringing, their BC flight was their treat.

I think some of the posts have been rather harsh and the OP can't be labelled as a bad parent and getting social services involved is rather over the top.

Best thing to do re the situation is give VS a call re the 4 year old and go from there.