No J on A330.

quote:Originally posted by eejp1007
That's just Virgin staff filling it up to give the impression of high loads in high yields seats!


I can't comment on LGW flights, haven't taken one since 13 July '03 when the Miami flights used to leave from there! But, in my recent experience this is not at all true. UC is still busy with paying customers, OK, there may be a good few on sale fares.

quote:Originally posted by eejp1007
That's just Virgin staff filling it up to give the impression of high loads in high yields seats!


Def no staff on the flights I've just been on (unless they were all retired [:I])

David

I've just done a quick and nasty check of UC bookings to MCO using the ExpertFlyer seat map
I selected a possibly quiet week just after the Easter vacations Apr 11th - 17th
There will be some flights booked without seats being reserved but going by the PE & Y cabins very few!

For UC:
VS27 - 37% booked - two flights with only 1 UC seat booked - PE rammed most days Y almost full.
VS15 - 35% booked - 1 flight with 0 bookings, another 4 with only 4 or 5
VS75 (MAN) - 58% booked - only 1 flight with more than 9 seats taken.

Other cabins were mostly full.

The following week (18-24th) even worse - most UC flights to MCO with 4 or less pax booked!

I also found my Dec. screen prints of G availability to MCO o/w in Apr, ret in May.
In Apr. there was availability for 2 Gs on 18 days LHR-MIA and 16 days MAN-MCO
In May there were 16 days available MIA-LHR and 8 days MCO-MAN.
At least one flight every week on both routes.

That would seem to indicate Gs are not so rare - at least not to Florida in Apr/May 2010!
Either that or VS had serious problems with their IT, and I was just lucky to hit the right week to start planning my next trip!

It would seem that the B&S routes have been hit hard in UC bookings c/w other cabins.

If that is the case, I can understand thoughts to have some flights without UC, particularly if they have much improved PE cabins. This would also make sense if they were going to increase service to regional airports - B&S regional do not need a daily service and there is much regional resentment at London Airways (BA) pulling services from them.

It may be a good opportunity for VS.

There's been a few merging of the MCO flights in May - I was originally moved from the 27 to the 15 (as the 27 had been cancelled) and most recently back to the 27 again as Virgin have rejigged things and the 15 is the flight cancelled. On previous trips PE and UC have been full as has Y (same time each year), this year on the same flights/dates (bearing in mind the flights have now been merged and there's only 1 flight), UC is still only half full, PE 80% full and Y 80% full.

quote:Originally posted by firsttimer
There's been a few merging of the MCO flights in May - I was originally moved from the 27 to the 15 (as the 27 had been cancelled) and most recently back to the 27 again as Virgin have rejigged things and the 15 is the flight cancelled. On previous trips PE and UC have been full as has Y (same time each year), this year on the same flights/dates (bearing in mind the flights have now been merged and there's only 1 flight), UC is still only half full, PE 80% full and Y 80% full.

Steve has very helpfully listed these merged LGW-MCO flights on theDibb.

Lots of them [:(]

I personally do not seeing this Being true. So J ex LGW has taken a bit of a hit but let's not forget that by the time these aircraft arrive we could be into a recovery phase with the economy and we must also remember it could well be that the expense of retrofitting J seats at a later date may not make it worthwhile. Then ne must remember the investment VS has made in the CH and that routes such as BGI are good performers for J.

Yes I see the 330s being useful on smaller carribbean flights which don't have demand for744 service but I can't see it without j. We all know it's upfront where carriers make money and granted W is an excellent money earner it would be stupid to not include a small J cabin.

I am also not convinced that the plans for seating configs will be finalised yet and given the usual secrecy surrounding new. Abin products (ie the seat manufacturer will have what is essentially a gaggin order over it) I can't believe something that is potentially comercially sensitive has been leaked out of the seat manufacturer.


With regards to merging of flights, this often happens during quieter periods however prices to
mco in may in y are still up at 550.

quote:Originally posted by willd
I am also not convinced that the plans for seating configs will be finalised yet ....

I must admit to being sceptical about the removal of J but seating plans must be very close to finalisation if they are not already finalised.

The first 5 aircraft are due for delivery in one year! (early 2011 according to the press releases)
Without a seat plan and routing decisions, how can VS take bookings?

Or are they only going to be used on new routes?
Even then it cannot be long before they must announce otherwise they will be losing out to other airlines.
And decisions must be made well before that announcement.

Willie Walsh seems to be signalling the end of J in BA's short-haul fleet.
British Airways has called time on European business-class travel, saying that the service may not survive the recession.
Short-haul premium will never recover. That part of the business has changed for ever and we have to address it.
Premium seats could be removed from planes operating out of Gatwick.

Is this thinking influencing VS?

I do not see VS current operation in any way similar to European and BA short-haul. It is possible to put up with restricted seating in short-haul that would be totally unacceptable for long-haul.
Or are VS considering some shorter routes?

quote:Originally posted by Bill S
The first 5 aircraft are due for delivery in one year! (early 2011 according to the press releases)
Without a seat plan and routing decisions, how can VS take bookings?


Yes I had forgotten that it was only next year so agree seating plans will be taking shape currently.

Personally I see the 330's being used out of LGW to help with the smaller services that dont have the demand for a 744 but do for a 330. You know the sort of destination that will get alot of VH customers. Then I see them also being used on east coast USA routes to add a bit of frequency. Of course somewhere like DXB could get them as well. The 744s at LGW would then be used for places like MCO, BGI, LAS.

I then would see the 787s being used mainly out of LHR. Of course this could all very well change.


I personally dont see the BA comment having any influence on VS decision. By shorter haul on VS we are talking destinations such as BOS, DXB and NYC. These are fairly high yielding routes and therefore a removal of J would be a real own goal. And as this site proves, just because you go to see Mickey Mouse, visit the Luxor or go to Barbados does not mean that the J cabins are empty.

quote:Originally posted by Bill S
Is this thinking influencing VS?

I do not see VS current operation in any way similar to European and BA short-haul. It is possible to put up with restricted seating in short-haul that would be totally unacceptable for long-haul.
Or are VS considering some shorter routes?


WW is busy making coffins and banging his own nails into them.

VS needs better fleet flexibility, there is no doubt about that. Where flights are quiet, smaller tow-engined jets are going to make yields much higher. For this reason alone, VS will need J on the 333s because without it, they will only work on, well, which route exactly?

[Scrooge]

quote:Originally posted by slinky09
quote:Originally posted by Bill S
Is this thinking influencing VS?

I do not see VS current operation in any way similar to European and BA short-haul. It is possible to put up with restricted seating in short-haul that would be totally unacceptable for long-haul.
Or are VS considering some shorter routes?


WW is busy making coffins and banging his own nails into them.



Yeah he is. firstly the short haul J product on BA is crap (I don't count TLV in that btw) I really do see the UK carriers going the way of the US carriers right now, the problem being they are 10 years behind the curve, the US carriers are now starting to add things to the flights, not chop them away.

The press releases say 270 seats. That may or may not be all 10 aircraft - it may be only the LHR variant.

That actually could tell us quite a lot:

It is not one of the standard AB suggestions.
It seems likely that J will take the whole of the front cabin in a similar layout to Air Canada
The ACA J seats behind the doors seem unlikely - certainly for the leisure routes.
They may have to take some seats to accommodate the bar.....
So it seems likely there will be 23-25 J seats.

It then gets interesting:
The rear cabins would split nicely into 36 W and 209 Y - that's assuming a W seat pitch of 38' and Y of just over 32'
But that suggests 6 rows of 2-2-2 in W..... much the same spacing as ANZ!
And more W with 36 seats in the A330 than there are currently in the A346 (28)

With the old VS W seat, it would be 2-3-2 as in the A340s but that either gives an even higher proportion of W or too many seats...
6 W rows would give 42 W seats and ~275 overall.

Unless they are pitching Y at much greater than 32'. A 34' Y pitch would still allow 5 rows of 38' W.

Either way, with 270 seats, it looks as though there is going to be quite a bit more room when turning right!

quote:Originally posted by Bill S
...

And more W with 36 seats in the A330 than there are currently in the A346 (28)



The A346 has 38 seats in W. [:)]

quote:Originally posted by Tinkerbelle
quote:Originally posted by Bill S
...

And more W with 36 seats in the A330 than there are currently in the A346 (28)



The A346 has 38 seats in W. [:)]

[:I][:I][y]
And more W with 36 seats in the A330 than there are currently in the A346 (28)
And almost the same as in the current A346

quote:

somewhere like DXB could get them as well.

Oh dear, i can see mini-me and her friends not liking that when they go out for the Dubai 7's. Serious therapy might be needed.

[Scrooge]

Just to drag this old topic up, but it has now been confirmed by sources inside VS that there will be a J cabin on the 330.

It will feature an updated version of the UCS, more details to follow.

quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
Just to drag this old topic up, but it has now been confirmed by sources inside VS that there will be a J cabin on the 330.

It will feature an updated version of the UCS, more details to follow.

[^][^][^][^]

So was the original leak just a try on to gauge reactions?

[Scrooge]

Who knows, as with any business there are always rumors flying around.

Frankly, IMHO VS does not use this site for all it's worth, instead the choose to spend money on surveys when in fact they would get a better reaction, quicker from here.

[Neil]

Thanks for confirming Scrooge, makes total sense.

quote:Originally posted by Scrooge
Frankly, IMHO VS does not use this site for all it's worth, instead the choose to spend money on surveys when in fact they would get a better reaction, quicker from here.


[y][y]

A couple of weeks ago, I had a survey about 'social interaction sites' from VS and mentioned the very same thing.

David

I wonder what the new enhancements will be to the new UCS?

Alex

quote:Originally posted by Alex V
I wonder what the new enhancements will be to the new UCS?

Alex


One should be the new wash bag I saw a prototype of last year perhaps ?[:?]

Hardly a big surprise given the announcement by NZ of their new seat and something that 'insiders' and 'outsiders' are hardly surprised about. VS would not want to be seen flying around with an old product. I guess we can assume that the 744's at LGW will be given this new seat as well, so we will go from the LGW fleet being perceived as the worst in the fleet to amongst the best in 18 months time!

Cant wait to see new interiors the current ones are on their last knockings, thanks for the update scrooge.

cheers

alex

Looks like it's true then, first A330's in two class W & Y class, later aicraft in three class!!!

Looks like they could be operating for VH to take on the charter boys then...