BMI having serious affect on VS for transfers

Had extended discussions with Premier team today at VS, over arrangements for transfers from the "north" to LHR.

Looking into our potential trip to NRT later this year, with BMI messing around with their schedules there is no physical way of interconnecting on a code share back to MAN, the afternoon/evening flights have altered so not enough time exists to get the the flight after LHR arrival, and their later 8pm flight is being pulled.
This following on from their LBA cancellation last year makes transfers extremely hard, The guy I spoke to says they are being messed around something chronic with domestic transfers. It does make you wonder how much VS rely on BD for interconnecting business and at this rate (now having to look at overnighting/other options) wonder whether BA may start winning business back due to flexibility on the domestic side..

nh

Living in London this is not something I have to deal with but I see that one of the supposed marketing 'plus' points used for LHR is that it is THE international hub airport for the UK.

But if you can't get to your onwards destination in quick time then its not so much a hub as a dead end.

In that case pax will start to look elsewhere i.e. to an airline / alliance that can offer conenctions. In some cases that may even include flying to AMS and CDG if they have a better connection to a UK destination.

For example it is (since BMI cancelled the service to LHR) easier for my parents to flm KLM from Teesside (sorry Durham Tees Valley) to AMS and connect there than it is for them to get to London (and they would have the option of paying a visit to their dutifil son) to use LHR or LGW. Result no ££ for a UK based airline.[url][/url]

I think half the issue has actually been the takeover of BD by LH. It is clear that LH do not see BD operating as a domestic carrier, the cuts they have introduced (such as LBA) and the introduction of tiny jungle jets on domestic routes into LHR just shows that LH has it eyes set elsewhere. All expansion since the LH takeover has mainly been on routes that can be operated in co-operation with LH, for example Cologne and Berlin.

Sadly it seems that LH don't really see a future for the BD domestic/Eire network and would prefer to use valuable LHR slots for other (perhaps) more profitable routes.

It does make it very difficult. At least with LGW i think you could get a EASYJeT down from Liverpool, but to do that to LGW or Luton and then hop to LHR is a right faff and know id go for the carrier who would get me there in as less sectors as possible, little hassle and check my bags through. Im fairly sure this is a go on BA, AF and probably LH all from the North. Virgin may start to struggle for connecting pax relying on O&D traffic if BMI's cutbacks continue on there domestic routes. n(

[Scrooge]

Pretty much in agreement with what Willd said, when SMB had BD in a strange sort of way he needed VS in order to offer long haul, now LH has them they really couldn't care less about VS.

Until the 3rd runway gets put in at LHR there are not enough slots open with which to run a small domestic operation.

Oh...something has just dawned on me........

New thread time

I guess it's not so much that LH wants BD to run it's more profitable routes, although that's certain, but that using BD's LHR slots to replace LH flights to LHR means LH can in turn route those planes from German airports to other locations for expansion. It's a good deal for LH, but still leaves them slot glutted at Heathrow .

And VS will suffer if people can't connect - BA then becomes more compelling and I am sure this was a consideration when VS looked at purchasing BD. VS will have to get those A333s upto MAN and GLA to counteract.

[mitchja]

This has always been one of my issues if I land a LHR mid-afternoon.

BD seemed to be using the LHR>MAN
route as a slot minding exercise as some days there where as many as 14 flights a day on this route with as little as 25 mins between different departures all to/from MAN!!!

That late BD departure from LHR>MAN came about when BD took over BMed so I guess BD/LH are now streamlining this route.

The last couple of times I flown this route BD have also bumped me onto earlier flights in both directions too.

BA's last flight of the day is about 20:30 on some days.

Can VS continue to operate with little or no connecting traffic from a feeder though? Is there really that many hardcore VS fans that would overnight or wait around for hours just to fly VS? I can't see VS competing long term unless they opt into Star Allience or join up with a feeder airline like well erm EASYJeT ): :w . If and its a big IF a thrid runway is build at LHR then its still going to take years and if the slots became avaliable are VS really going to take the next step and start a SHORT HAUL operation when they could of bought a ready made BMI? As for expanding out the NORTH with the new planes is it really going to be that radical though? I cant see a MAN - NRT or DEL or GLA - JFK, its likely more to be just and exra flight to MCO or BGI maybe a west coast option of LAS. Is this really enough? ?|

[honey lamb]

Is there really that many hardcore VS fans that would overnight or wait around for hours just to fly VS?

Yes )

[mitchja]

Is there really that many hardcore VS fans that would overnight or wait around for hours just to fly VS ?|

Another Yes from me too.

I will now only use VS and BD for domestic flights (unless I need to get to LGW where there's no choice other than BA ! )

Is there really that many hardcore VS fans that would overnight or wait around for hours just to fly VS?

I did it for years. The levels I went to in order to make VS flights work was with hindsight actually pretty astonishing. I'm not necessarily proud of it

Moreover ... I've done somewhere north of 60k miles in the last 4 months, and on pretty much every trip have had to contend with wx or strike-related canx events. When I have booked myself to have an overnight somewhere between connections, it has made my life incredibly easier. I suppose it serves me right for choosing to do so much travel in the worst winter in memory both in the US and Europe, in the end for me the knowledge that I will make a flight reasonably close to the time I am planning on is of great solace, and I will happily spend a night in an airport hotel for the privilege.

For the first time in a very long time I've decided to drive to LHR rather than shuttle from Manchester.

Issues 1) Poor connection times, particulary for the return. 2) Baggage - as VS couldn't/wouldn't add connecting flights this time (to a NZ redemption) it meant I had the choice of 20 KG or 23 KG baggage allowance with BMI/BA booked on a seperate PNR - and the stress of missing the connection. 3) Ecomomics - to fly would have been c.£300, plus return taxi to Manchester @ £100 = £400. Driving, one night at LHR incuding 21 nights parking and diesel = <£180.

So not great - as others have said the hub and spoke idea is only as good as getting people in from the spokes.

Regards
RedV

I could understand it if it were say a holiday and you didnt want the worry of missing the connection overnighting, but if you had a business trip where time is money and money is time would you really still do it, i love VS and try to travel as much as possible, i dont have the problem as i live in the south east but it would drive me loopy if i found myself waiting around for hours when i saw others taking off before me... Unless the clubhouse is involved ):

Is there really that many hardcore VS fans that would overnight or wait around for hours just to fly VS?

I have always had to involve some form of domestic connection living in Aberdeen. I have normally opted for BD in all honesty and have almost always booked this point to point. Various reasons.....including, ensuring i was in London a day early so as not to miss my non refundable first UC flight, giving me extra time in the clubhouse etc etc. I recently opted to book the codeshare all the way through to DXB and it was definately not without it's issues. See my recent TR last week. Seating problems, too tight a connection for any serious clubhouse action, too long a connection on the return leg (missus trapped airside without a cigarette for more than 13hrs including flying time). All of these add up. However a silver lining to the cloud. Definately dont want to speak to soon but i'm sure the 1 TP i got for the domestic connection one way on my FC account was an error. No telling on me now!!!

As a regular MAN - NRT via LHR this is a worry for me. I've already had my next LHR-MAN transfer bumped forward which gives me 1hr and 5 mins to make the connection - highley unlikely I think! For my flight next month I've had to opt for the 8pm flight giving me a 4 hour stop over! If the BMI route dries up my likely option will be to take the BA shuttle and forfeit the extra TP and miles.

It's not so bad checking the bags in twice and I do wonder if there's more chance of an upgrade being at the check in desk at Heathrow rather than transfering through - any thoughts?

Its sounding like the 8pm is being pulled, as they weren't allowed to book it..

The nearest connection on a code share for NRT MAN is the following morning...