The Big Volcanic Ash from Iceland Thread

[honey lamb]

"British Airways says test flight had no difficulties"

I could have told them there were no problems. We haven't been experiencing the brilliant sunsets predicted. In fact they have been very mundane and watery

Sky News was reporting that none of the planes went through the ash cloud, but rather flew through a perceived gap in the density of the ash... not sure what to make of that, they seemed to think it was significant, but perhaps in that media way of lets make this good news seem bad.

Picked up this link from FT.
Shows that Spanish airports have reopened...

New York Times map

What we know that they have to offer re-booking or refunds, regardless of fare code.

We know that they don't need to pay the EU compensation payments in addition to refunds, as this is extreme conditions outside of their control.

The board and lodgings issue is one I'd love to get a definitive answer on. As I understand it some passengers are being offered reimbursement of up to $100 per night for hotels and further expenses for food - however I've only heard this being offer to Upper Class passengers, and it would be interesting to know whether it's across the board for UC, or indeed any other passengers have been offered it? Any V-Flyers with personal experience, please share it here

Been away for a few hours - had to change houses here in Orlando - then again, we are very lucky as the owner of the house we were in had this one available on exactly the day they had other guests coming in to the one we were in.

I digress.

I posted earlier (probably about 7,000 posts ago on this thread so can't blame anyone for not remembering )that my sister had contacted the Au line on my behalf as I could not get through.

VS said they were paying $10 for breakfast / $15 for lunch / $20 for dinner. No receipt no refund. Also they were paying for 3* hotels.

This throws up quandry - was that just for u/c (hope not as I flew out J but scheduled to go back Y :0 ), U/C and Au, or everyone. I had assumed it was everyone as my sister described my circumstances to VS.

I am looking on the brightside here - I get extra time on holiday in my favourite place, I have my accomodation sorted, booked another hire car, and have no need to rush back. Now all I am waiting for is the sun to appear.

However, speak to Mrs S and you will get a completely different perspcetive.

[Pete]

Thanks spiceke,

I do remember someone posting figures, but this thread is getting a little difficult to pick through now

Hope the enforced extra holiday isn't too stressful (seriously), and that Mrs S can get to enjoy it now the accommodation is sorted.

[Pete]

I doff my cap to SeaWorld over in Florida. They are offering free admission to any UK, Irish or continental tourists stranded over there at the moment.

SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment is offering free one-day admission to any United Kingdom, Irish or Continental European tourists stranded in Florida due to the interruption in international air travel caused by Icelandic volcanic ash. The offer is valid starting Saturday, April 17, 2010 at SeaWorld Orlando, Aquatica waterpark and Busch Gardens Tampa.

Stranded tourists must present to the parks' front gate Guest Services window a valid return airline ticket from Wednesday, April 14, 2010 through Wednesday, April 21, 2010 or until normal flight schedules resume.

One ticket will be offered at each park for each return flight ticket presented. Children under age 3 are free.

And also for flight crew

The free admission offer has also been extended to all airline crews affected by the travel interruption through April 21. Official airline ID must be presented at Guest Services to qualify.

I doff my cap to SeaWorld over in Florida. They are offering free admission to any UK, Irish or continental tourists stranded over there at the moment.

SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment is offering free one-day admission to any United Kingdom, Irish or Continental European tourists stranded in Florida due to the interruption in international air travel caused by Icelandic volcanic ash. The offer is valid starting Saturday, April 17, 2010 at SeaWorld Orlando, Aquatica waterpark and Busch Gardens Tampa.

Stranded tourists must present to the parks' front gate Guest Services window a valid return airline ticket from Wednesday, April 14, 2010 through Wednesday, April 21, 2010 or until normal flight schedules resume.

One ticket will be offered at each park for each return flight ticket presented. Children under age 3 are free.

And also for flight crew

The free admission offer has also been extended to all airline crews affected by the travel interruption through April 21. Official airline ID must be presented at Guest Services to qualify.

Nice one SeaWorld!!!! Big thumbs up!

Certainly got one up on Disney & Universal.

I would guess that business will drop from long haul. This whole mess will certainly reduce future bookings particularly as the horror stories come out in the media. SeaWorld will need those brownie points!

Virgin will also need to consider how to limit the damage. They are particularly susceptible with reliance on B&S. I wonder if we will see a cut back in the extra flights recently announced, and where the extra assets might get used?

The greatest criticism from the punters seems to be problems with communications. Pity VS have not taken the opportunity to use sites such as this and theDibb - a couple of CS agents answering questions here can reach so many more people than when used on the phones.

What can I say - except I know where we will be going when the sun comes out (we already had Disney Annual Passes).

That is a fantastic gesture from Seaworld. They deserve all the positive publicity they can get for this.

(Mrs S and Miss S still wont be happy though lol)

Apologies if this has already been asked, but anyone any idea of exactly how many VS aircraft are out there grounded right now and where? Just curious. I'm guessing a few crews have had a few good nights out!! Pretty sure last Wed VS401 is still in DXB.

[Darren Wheeler]

Apprarently the Tories want the Govt and airlines to hire cruise ships.

Almost 200 million pax flights per year.
Say 500,000 a day.
Now 2,000,000 pax out of position.

If (thats a big If!) pax would accept the same conditions as war-time troop ships.....they could maybe get 20,000 on a ship....more likely only 4,000...then 125 cruise ships would take 4 weeks. And that's from just 4 days disruption.

Sounds like a Political solution!

And how long is a transatlantic crossing? 4 days? 5 days?

To drag up a term from the time of the Pilgrim Fathers, "Puke Stockings"

Just out of interest, regardless if what virgin's policy is, what is the eu policy on being stranded, ie board and lodgings? Lord Adonis seems to think they are liable in some way?

This seems like a grey area.

What we know that they have to offer re-booking or refunds, regardless of fare code.

We know that they don't need to pay the EU compensation payments in addition to refunds, as this is extreme conditions outside of their control.

The board and lodgings issue is one I'd love to get a definitive answer on. As I understand it some passengers are being offered reimbursement of up to $100 per night for hotels and further expenses for food - however I've only heard this being offer to Upper Class passengers, and it would be interesting to know whether it's across the board for UC, or indeed any other passengers have been offered it? Any V-Flyers with personal experience, please share it here

Chatting to our neighbour yesterday, his daughter & family are stranded in Palma but being "taken care of" - extra hotel nights, meals etc being paid for. I asked which tour operator they booked through and he said "oh no they did a flight only and Easyjet are paying" y)

Someone at work is currently stuck in New York, BA have told her not to expect to be home till the end of this week. Don't know how well she is being looked after though.

To be honest I'd rather be stuck on a beach than a city.

For what its worth COBRA are supposed to be meeting this morning.

Just out of interest, regardless if what virgin's policy is, what is the eu policy on being stranded, ie board and lodgings? Lord Adonis seems to think they are liable in some way?

This seems like a grey area.

What we know that they have to offer re-booking or refunds, regardless of fare code.

We know that they don't need to pay the EU compensation payments in addition to refunds, as this is extreme conditions outside of their control.

The board and lodgings issue is one I'd love to get a definitive answer on. As I understand it some passengers are being offered reimbursement of up to $100 per night for hotels and further expenses for food - however I've only heard this being offer to Upper Class passengers, and it would be interesting to know whether it's across the board for UC, or indeed any other passengers have been offered it? Any V-Flyers with personal experience, please share it here

Some seemingly informed chap on BBCR5 this morning (not Simon Calder) was saying that there is no Force Majeure clause in the EU directive - basically it is the responsibility of any EU airline to get you home and pay expenses in the interim.
Could be devastating for those on brink but I wish I had known about that when Jet2 abandoned us in Barcelona a few years back.

Do insurance companies still use the "Act of god" scenario in their polocies?

I'd have thought in this day and age, it would be extremely difficult to prove that this was actually an act of "God" as such, and not just the result of science. I assume that they just use the "Natural disaster" wording to cover their bases.

And is it possible to get insurance that does actually cover this kind of thing?

Specific question (which may not get a specific answer!) - Friends of ours, a party of 6 (couple with 2 kids + 2 grand-parents) have been in Orlando for the last 2 weeks (flight only on VAA - NOT Vholidays).

They were due to fly back today - what chances are there that they will actually be able to fly back today (I'm assuming very little chance), but more importantly if they can't be flown on the today's booked flight, when are they likely to be back (even if flying recommenced tonight or tomorrow morning???

They are not FF's on VAA and have no FC status etc.

Thanks.

[Neil]

Virgin have confirmed that all flights are cancelled today, so they won't be able to return today.

As for getting re-booked. They will have to either call VS or see the team at the airport and they will be able to advise on that. Obviously there are a lot of people who are already in their situation, but until the airspace is re-opened then it is almost impossible to be able to say anything. It is highly unlikely though that they will get on one of the first flights once they start operating. Passengers with tickets for those flights will get their seats and then any spares will be filled up with pax stranded, but with 1000's already in that position it will take time to clear the backlog.

Neil

Apprarently the Tories want the Govt and airlines to hire cruise ships.

Almost 200 million pax flights per year.
Say 500,000 a day.
Now 2,000,000 pax out of position.

If (thats a big If!) pax would accept the same conditions as war-time troop ships.....they could maybe get 20,000 on a ship....more likely only 4,000...then 125 cruise ships would take 4 weeks. And that's from just 4 days disruption.

Sounds like a Political solution!

And how long is a transatlantic crossing? 4 days? 5 days?

To drag up a term from the time of the Pilgrim Fathers, "Puke Stockings"

"glib-gabbety puke stockings" y)

I think glib-gabbety politicians would be the term to use!

I was "rounding down" to 1 return crossing a week.
With turnaround it would take more than 6 weeks to deal with just 4 days flight backlog and perhaps Scrooge could tell us just how many cruise ships there are in the world. And how long would it take to convert them to carry 4,000 pax.

Too many people will just think of this as a UK problem but we have to consider that every other country is involved. NATS deal with 2.2 million flights, over 200 million pax flights a year (see About NATS)- the vast majority on the North Atlantic routes.

That is not just a UK problem - nor even just an EU problem.

Another chance for GB to save the world .... and we don't need even more stupid suggestions from the Tories to help! We'll run out of ) symbols!

Now we just need the other clowns to call a strike tomorrow.

/rant
It will be interesting to see what the COBRA bailout will be.

Just saw on the Independent web site that flights are still grounded until at least 01:00am tomorrow (Tuesday)... Not good.

Can you imagine what it'll be like if the other, larger, neighbouring volcano erupts now????

[Bazz]

At 08.30 NATS updated restrictions to last until at least 01.00 tomorrow Tuesday 20 April. LINK Next update due 15.00 local time.

[Bazz]

Lord Mandy and his cronies, Lord Adonis, et al, outside of No. 10, said they were looking at the possibility of commandeering civilian vessels and were evaluating naval assets in relation to transporting stranded pax.

I know there is a general election a few weeks away even though the campaign is overshadowed by the volcanic ash cloud but as both main parties are coming up with this idea can we not turn this into a party bashing thread please.

Specific question (which may not get a specific answer!) - Friends of ours, a party of 6 (couple with 2 kids + 2 grand-parents) have been in Orlando for the last 2 weeks (flight only on VAA - NOT Vholidays).

They were due to fly back today - what chances are there that they will actually be able to fly back today (I'm assuming very little chance), but more importantly if they can't be flown on the today's booked flight, when are they likely to be back (even if flying recommenced tonight or tomorrow morning???

They are not FF's on VAA and have no FC status etc.

Thanks.

I'll stick my neck out on this one.
If NATS stick to the rules, flights won't begin (other than "test" flights) until the jet stream clears the ash on Saturday.
So eight days backlog - and 85% capacity already filled.

Someone has to break the rules.

Hopefully that will be today - but I don't really have much confidence in any government in the middle of an election taking ANY risk of a few aircraft attempting a "Hudson" in the N Atlantic - they'll pass the buck to the airlines.

Some things can be done - remove all airport noise restrictions - offer emergency funding to prevent the immediate risk of airline collapse enhancing the situation - investigate re-routing via open areas. To be blunt, they will help but not remove the problem.

I'm not due to fly back until mid May - I don't expect to get back on-time and am already planning for a few weeks enforced extension.

It may always clear up - the volcano might stop - they might suddenly discover the ash is safe - the winds might only blow from the SW. Pigs might fly us all home.

Prudence suggests plan for the worst - and hopefully we will then be pleasantly surprised.

[Nottingham Nick]

That just about sums it up in a succinct manner - even if it isn't really what we want to hear, Bill. oo)

The problem is now - in order to get planes back in the air, someone is going to have to stick their neck out and make the brave decision.

We now live in a world of buck passing and quite understandable fear of litigation.

So, my bet is on a long period involving much procrastination, many empty discussions, a plethora of bland political statements about how bad the situation is but not offering a solution, lots of meetings, the formation of a few sub-committees, and lots of agencies looking for help from others before planes are back in the air.

I hope I am wrong, as Thursday looms ever closer, but our current crop of leaders are not renowned for brave decisions.


Nick

[Bazz]

Agree with Bill and Nick completely, it will be a brave decision indeed, or Heaven forbid, if a plane full of pax is brought down because of the ash, a foolish one. In these litigious days no one wants to have the finger pointed at them if things go wrong, there are no "hard shoulders" up there - caution is best advised.

I'll stick my neck out on this one.
If NATS stick to the rules, flights won't begin (other than "test" flights) until the jet stream clears the ash on Saturday.
So eight days backlog - and 85% capacity already filled.

Someone has to break the rules.

Hopefully that will be today...

I agree, it seems to me that NATS and whoever are behaving like a Little Britain sketch ... "computer says no" with no real ability to analyze or justify. Nor are they subject to any sort of probing, at least in public. My view is that they don't know, and just say no. Despite a growing number of tests and that some airlines (e.g. Aeroflot) appear to be flying with no problem and even NASA have said that if the ash reaches US airspace they don't view it as a problem like over here ...