Economy is really not THAT bad !

For most who don't come from priviledged backgrounds, the experience of Y is something you are used to when growing up.

Cant say I agree with that. Just because you fly Y does not mean you are not privileged. Its all about priorities. For some families they would prefer to spend their money on sending their kids to public school than J or F class flights for the whole family. Its just preference- I am sure not every J class passenger on these boards lives in a 7 bedroomed mansion in the Surrey Hills or just off the Kings Road and equally every Y class passenger on these boards does not come from a one up, one down terrace such as those around the less desirable areas of many a city. No different to other walks of life really, its about prferecne and how you decide to spend your money.


Anyway back to the original post. Y on VS is not that bad at all in the grand scheme of things. As many regular readers know I am always down the back for my jaunts across the atlantic (again not because I am not privileged but because at the moment a house deposit is more of a priority!) and its fine. My general issues come from the seat becoming uncomfortable after a while and the 'closeness' of other people. But its doable. I just only wish that all the VS aircraft had the water fountain feature, this is a life saver. I tend to not approach the galley for water as it feels wrong to pull back the curtain and interupt crew going about their jobs however I have noticed that when on a 346 I feel a lot more refreshed at the other end and I put this down to being able to access water without hassling crew!

For most who don't come from priviledged backgrounds, the experience of Y is something you are used to when growing up.

Cant say I agree with that. Just because you fly Y does not mean you are not privileged. Its all about priorities. For some families they would prefer to spend their money on sending their kids to public school than J or F class flights for the whole family. Its just preference- I am sure not every J class passenger on these boards lives in a 7 bedroomed mansion in the Surrey Hills or just off the Kings Road and equally every Y class passenger on these boards does not come from a one up, one down terrace such as those around the less desirable areas of many a city. No different to other walks of life really, its about prferecne and how you decide to spend your money.

My point at the end of my post "Perhaps not lack of money but some prefer to spend it on other things!" - is similar to what you are saying.

The point at the start of my post you are referring to was me saying that most people have experienced Y at some point in their lives. I've only seen the rare few who come from "priviledged" backgrounds who have only ever flown in J or W and never had to experience Y.

Taking a more realistic example, some may be able to fly J but choose W or Y as a means to have more money for their holiday i.e. upgrading their hotel etc rather than J flights which are only 9 ish hours of the holiday in total.

A good friend of mine prefers to fly J, but doesn't really earn enough to afford J for their annual holiday, so chooses to holiday ever 2 years in order that he can still have his J seats.

I'm not sure where I suggested those who only fly J come from 7 bedroom houses in the Surrey Hills?

I come from the long legs and short top half group.
I should have explained a little more in the whole economy thing, granted I never have the money for much more, I'm lucky that my job gives me the perk of usually free extra legroom.
I am however a fidgiter, I cannot sit still so sitting on a long flight with minimal leg space isn't easy for me.

I am a seasoned Y class flyer - that is all I do. Cheaper is better for my company so normally on an X, N or S ticket.

Simple maths really, my company would be bankrupt if we did not go that class...end of. :0

Enjoy the lounge, enjoy revivals but ALWAYS fly economy (upgrades only allowed out of personal pocket)

Was informed by check-in staff last week on my flight from LHR to BOS - "Virgin do not upgrade as policy". Only if CC need the seat you are in once on board - only way to upgrade prior to boarding is to pay hard currency! aaaww shucks!

sorry meant X, N or Q...typo

Entirely agree with the original poster, having done a similar thing in Y last month.

Of course having a Gold card helps massively to the whole experience and really gets you probably 1/2 the UC product. The airport experience was easy, I was relaxed before the flight, I could eat the food from the Club Houses and be selective about what I wanted to eat on board. The ability to use Revivals on the way back and ignore the horrible on-board breakfast was a great plus and allowed me to get half recovered. Too bad it's all going to end June

[mitchja]

Yes, the AU card is the key here I think.

Several years ago I managed to bag one of those ridiculously cheap 'Freddy Fares' to SYD and back. Including a one night stop-over in HKG both ways, it cost me a grand total of £351.00 return in economy (or ~2 pence per mile). That is the furthest I have ever travelled in a Y cabin.

Being AU meant I got Clubhouses/lounges/J check-in etc all the way helped enormously. Would have have booked the same flight, not being a AU card holder, probably not. Would I do the same flight again in Y - yes at that price, no for the normal economy fare.

The biggest difference I experience in flying Y or J, is the fact in Y, there's nothing apart from you and your IFE screen for the entire flight. A J flight most certainly feels to pass much quicker because there's so much more interaction between you and other pax and the crew. On a VS flight, you are getting up, going to the bar etc etc, There's more to do and keep you occupied in J than there is in Y.

If you don't want to fly economy for what ever reason, that's completely fine. I have no issues with anyone who chooses to not fly economy.

Yes, the AU card is the key here I think.

Several years ago I managed to bag one of those ridiculously cheap 'Freddy Fares' to SYD and back. Including a one night stop-over in HKG both ways, it cost me a grand total of £351.00 return in economy (or ~2 pence per mile). That is the furthest I have ever travelled in a Y cabin.

Wow £351 return!! That is cheap! That is pretty much the furthest you can go in Y too!

Bring back those fares please VS!!

I flown all three classes recently and yes, flying UC all the time would be great, but, I like economy too. It gets me on holiday

Never really had a bad Virgin economy flight. You get fed, watered and entertained. It does what it says on the tin.


...and, yes, all you tall people should go into PE or UC. No more knees in my back, thanks

The biggest difference I experience in flying Y or J, is the fact in Y, there's nothing apart from you and your IFE screen for the entire flight. A J flight most certainly feels to pass much quicker because there's so much more interaction between you and other pax and the crew. On a VS flight, you are getting up, going to the bar etc etc, There's more to do and keep you occupied in J than there is in Y.

Absolutely hit the nail on the head for me there. The few times I have flow J, I have found that I have been just as tired on arrival but the flight certainly passed quicker.

[mitchja]

I do definitely feel much more relaxed and refreshed on arrival if I fly J. Sleeping is not an issue for me in any cabin as I can sleep on a razor blade

As I mentioned on the VS Facebook page about the 'reclining your seat' debate they are currently having. There's several options available to all pax on all VS flights now to book yourself either an exit row, a bulk-head row or an extra leg-room row should you choose to do so.

I think I'd managed to bag either an exit or bulk head row on 3 of the 4 flights I did in Y to SYD and back (this was before the extra leg-room rows existed). I didn't even have to pay for them as several exit row seats remained un-allocated and the FSM asked me and others to move and sit in them during take-off and landing (I choose to sit there the entire flight)

Interestingly, (or not!), I did a couple of dummy bookings; only about £90 of that price is ticket price - the rest is various taxes, fuel surcharges, weird US security fees etc...

If VA only get £90 for flying someone transatlantic, feeding them, giving them a few drinks and showing them a few films, getting a seat seems like a massive bonus!

Craig.

Don't forget that the fuel surcharge is really part of the base fareand not a fee imposed by an external body so yo need to count that too.

[mitchja]

Here's a typical return economy VS fare breakdown for NYC:

Fare 1: Carrier VS NKWMGF LON to NYC (rules)
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code N
Covers LHR-JFK (Coach)
£102.00
Fare 2: Carrier VS OKXMGF NYC to LON (rules)
Passenger type ADT, round trip fare, booking code O
Covers JFK-LHR (Coach)
£67.00
VS YQ surcharge (YQ) £150.00
VS YQ surcharge (YQ) £5.00
USDA APHIS Fee (XA) £3.10
US Immigration Fee (XY) £4.30
US Customs Fee (YC) £3.40
United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty (GB) £60.00
United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge (UB) £30.63
US International Arrival Tax (US) £10.00
US International Departure Tax (US) £10.00
US September 11th Security Fee (AY) £1.50
US Passenger Facility Charge (XF) £2.80

Subtotal per passenger £449.73
Number of passengers x1

TOTAL AIRFARE & TAXES £449.73
This ticket is non-refundable.
Changes to this ticket will incur a penalty fee.

Interestingly, (or not!), I did a couple of dummy bookings; only about £90 of that price is ticket price - the rest is various taxes, fuel surcharges, weird US security fees etc...

If VA only get £90 for flying someone transatlantic, feeding them, giving them a few drinks and showing them a few films, getting a seat seems like a massive bonus!

Craig.

Don't forget that the fuel surcharge is really part of the base fareand not a fee imposed by an external body so yo need to count that too.

Thanks for clarifying; didn't realise - had the impression it was some kind of 'duty', I guess that's what they want us to think! Y still represents decent value at the sale prices I reckon. One thing Mrs Monster and I appreciate is being able to 'lift the armrest' in the middle of our pair. Esp on the A340s when you get a pair. Its like sharing one big chair. Not ideal for the single traveller!

Interestingly, (or not!), I did a couple of dummy bookings; only about £90 of that price is ticket price - the rest is various taxes, fuel surcharges, weird US security fees etc...

If VA only get £90 for flying someone transatlantic, feeding them, giving them a few drinks and showing them a few films, getting a seat seems like a massive bonus!

Craig.

Don't forget that the fuel surcharge is really part of the base fareand not a fee imposed by an external body so yo need to count that too.

Thanks for clarifying; didn't realise - had the impression it was some kind of 'duty', I guess that's what they want us to think! Y still represents decent value at the sale prices I reckon. One thing Mrs Monster and I appreciate is being able to 'lift the armrest' in the middle of our pair. Esp on the A340s when you get a pair. Its like sharing one big chair. Not ideal for the single traveller!

I'm not sure where I suggested those who only fly J come from 7 bedroom houses in the Surrey Hills?

Most I know do fly J or F though so can work the other way around.

When I have flown with friends or the other half, I have chosen to fly J. I would probably fit well in a Y seat, but I have been spoilt by J so wouldn't choose to. I don't have the grandest of wages, but I make sure I can afford the things I would want in life, like J class tickets. One reason why I don't travel as much as I would hope to as I have always paid for my own tickets/share of hotels etc. with no help from parents etc. Wouldn't say no to such help though :-p

I wouldn't bash Y, what helps with the price of J is to work out the price per mile

I'm not sure where I suggested those who only fly J come from 7 bedroom houses in the Surrey Hills?

Most I know do fly J or F though so can work the other way around.

I wouldn't bash Y, what helps with the price of J is to work out the price per mile

That's very true I expect most people who live in 7 bedroom properties have the money to predominantly fly J or F, but may, out of choice, fly W or Y.

You may bash Y a little after an MCO flight in the school holidays with the person in front on full recline the entire flight!! Especially if you've only been exposed to J or F !!

Fair play to you though, if you're saving up for J each time then I expect you hold far greater satisfaction from the luxury travel from hard earned £££!! ( same for me too, it feels good to save up for something really good then to sit back
And enjoy it!)

Luke

My point at the end of my post "Perhaps not lack of money but some prefer to spend it on other things!" - is similar to what you are saying.

I quite agree, I have several friends who could well afford F but fly in Y, they think (particularly to New York) that it's very poor value for money. And depending on your point of view, it is.

Then again I have some other friends who have a 1, 2, 3 mantra when travelling 1x the cost on travel 2 x the cost on hotels and 3 x the cost on dinner ... their priority being to sample the best fare they can anywhere in the world.

The last time I flew in Y on VS was from SFO in 2001 on a packed jumbo on an aisle seat next to the mid-galley (I was someone's guest ...). I played space invaders for the whole flight, it was so dire. I think a better seat on a less busy flight might have been different.

My point at the end of my post "Perhaps not lack of money but some prefer to spend it on other things!" - is similar to what you are saying.

I quite agree, I have several friends who could well afford F but fly in Y, they think (particularly to New York) that it's very poor value for money. And depending on your point of view, it is.

Then again I have some other friends who have a 1, 2, 3 mantra when travelling 1x the cost on travel 2 x the cost on hotels and 3 x the cost on dinner ... their priority being to sample the best fare they can anywhere in the world.

The last time I flew in Y on VS was from SFO in 2001 on a packed jumbo on an aisle seat next to the mid-galley (I was someone's guest ...). I played space invaders for the whole flight, it was so dire. I think a better seat on a less busy flight might have been different.

Spot on y)

For me I get a real kick of sitting up front - I like the old romance of flying (hence my membership of this this site (but I am an OLD ROMANTIC :X ) however quite content to stay in mediocre hotels such as Hyatt or Marriott and have a mix of dining from fine to fast food (e.g. love cheesecake factory and you cant get much low end than that place IME); on the other hand my brother in law is content and enjoys Y on long haul and is a flying geek (well he is a pilot and has his own aircraft) - horses for courses

Then again I have some other friends who have a 1, 2, 3 mantra when travelling 1x the cost on travel 2 x the cost on hotels and 3 x the cost on dinner ... their priority being to sample the best fare they can anywhere in the world.

I'm being very dense today. what does this mean?
1x what for cost of travel? 2x what for the hotel?
can someone explain it to a simpleton

...mediocre hotels such as Hyatt
...love cheesecake factory and you cant get much low end than that place IME

:w

My point at the end of my post "Perhaps not lack of money but some prefer to spend it on other things!" - is similar to what you are saying.

For me I get a real kick of sitting up front - I like the old romance of flying (hence my membership of this this site (but I am an OLD ROMANTIC :X ) however quite content to stay in mediocre hotels such as Hyatt or Marriott and have a mix of dining from fine to fast food (e.g. love cheesecake factory and you cant get much low end than that place IME); on the other hand my brother in law is content and enjoys Y on long haul and is a flying geek (well he is a pilot and has his own aircraft) - horses for courses

You can do a hell of a lot worse than cheesecake factory!!! It's definitely not fast food by any means and it's not low end!!!

You can do a hell of a lot worse than cheesecake factory!!! It's definitely not fast food by any means and it's not low end!!!

yes indeed but it is all relative - to some people it is low end but to others it is a high quality place to eat. Neither is right or wrong it all comes down to personal taste and experience

Overheard once

'Well I suppose we will just have to suffer at Le Gavroche. Are you sure you couldn't get anywhere better?'

You can do a hell of a lot worse than cheesecake factory!!! It's definitely not fast food by any means and it's not low end!!!

yes indeed but it is all relative - to some people it is low end but to others it is a high quality place to eat. Neither is right or wrong it all comes down to personal taste and experience

Overheard once

'Well I suppose we will just have to suffer at Le Gavroche. Are you sure you couldn't get anywhere better?'

Agree it is all relative but cheesecake factory is no way the lowest of the low which was implied by " you can't get much more low end than that" - sorry that's not true! Denny's, burger king etc this is low end!

For some they may never have experienced BK or Mcdonalds etc and may view cheesecake factory as low end but no one can ignore the fact that they exist and sit lower down!

Personally I really rate cheesecake factory, in the same way as the guidebooks do! Frommers, lonely plant etc, rated as mid range!

however quite content to stay in mediocre hotels such as Hyatt or Marriott

I love that you say hyatt and marriott are mediocre, I get excited staying at the premier inn. All I need is a mini kettle and some free teabags and it's virtual luxuary to me
God only knows how I'd react somewhere posher now I'm old enough to appriciate things like that. I remember being put up in the airport hilton in Zurich when I was younger when missing a connecting flight, needless to say I looked a little like this >>> ^)