Survey - Upper Class Menu wine list

On the subject of the menu, thinking specifically about the Wine List, what do you think of the descriptions? Do you spend time reading them, and are they useful, or do you tend to just look at the name and where it's from?

[Darren Wheeler]

This request for views has been approved by the Moderating team and Geoff's credentials verified.

Please post your views below, but try to remain on topic so any valuable information does not get lost.

Geoff, you do a good job at describing what is usually plonk. Although when the wines are as unsophisticated as those on offer, I find that less, is more.

[Nottingham Nick]

The whole art of the menu writer is never more apparent, than on a plane.

I am not a wine drinker, so can't really comment about that aspect of it, but the flowing prose that describes the food, often leads to disappointment when the plate arrives.

My conversations with people who do enjoy their plonk lead me to think that the same may be true of the effusive paragraph that describes a decidedly ordinary product.

We know that one of the main complaints about the whole of the VS experience, is that the reality doesn't live up to the hype / advertising, so my vote for the wine list wold be to keep it simple. That way, the expectation levels may not be set too high.

Nick

I think Nick's point is well made, trying to over inflate expectations is a VS trait at present, and the wines on offer in J are, ok...just that ok, nothing special, just plonk. Maybe a recommendation for each course for those who aren't big wine drinks may enable a more informed decision rather than a list of mediocre wines with flowery descriptions. Inflight most have the opportunity to try different wines and there is no better opportunity than to suggest matches for the menu.
VS aren't standing out from the crowd at present, and with the likes of NZ blowing VS out of the water in terms of food/drinks etc, an opportunity does exist to try and regain some wow factor.

I also think Nick has put it quite well. VS are promising more than they can deliver. The overal J product is good, but if you look at specific areas you can tell that cuts have been made and VS have tried to spin it as an improvement.

The description is often describing a wine that doesn't turn up, it increases people's expectations that the wines don't live up to.

I have found the J wines on-board to be very basic, so they should only have a very basic description. Until the wines are of a decent standard, the description should be kept short to avoid disapointing customers with the promise made in a description.

NH idea of recommending wine pairings depending on your meal choice sounds good.

I do like the idea of wine pairings

I too agree that the description rarely tends to marry the liquid that ends up in my glass.
Unless you are serving fine wines (which you are not), I don't think convoluted descriptors are neccessary.
Pairing suggestions are a nice idea though.
I personally would like to see some dessert wines on the menu too.
DL

I knew this would hit a raw nerve, the OP could have foreseen the same.

VS's standard of wine is inferior to any other business class offering I've experienced (such as CX, EK, 9W, BA, AA, CO being specific examples).

However well VS excels in other areas, food and wine is one which does just not seem to get the attention. When has VS even been listed as a contender in the Cellar in the Sky competition for example?

So I don't mind the flowery descriptions, I expect very little, am mildly surprised when something is drinkable. I suspect this is why also the champagne runs out so frequently, people taste the wine and go back to something dependable!

I personally would like to see some dessert wines on the menu too.
DL

Oh yes, dessert wines would be a nice addition!

[Decker]

Concur with Nick and Slinky. VS serve wine I normally wouldn't stoop to at home. NZ are all over them and even BA is more drinkable. So regretfully you're polishing a turd.

[honey lamb]

I'm afraid I'm not one of those who go by effusive descriptions of wine. I really don't know what they mean when they call a wine "oaky" or talk about bouquets or the taste of certain fruits since everyone's sense of taste is unique to that person dependent on what one is used to or cultural differences. One person's :$ is another person's y) So to answer your question, I don't study the descriptions, don't find them useful and tend to look look at the name and where it's from

Having said that, I do agree with the others in describing the wine on board as "plonk". I can get better on offer at my local supermarket. I also find that on board there is little enough help in choosing a wine to complement the meal and I too would welcome pairing

ditto on not wanting the 'froth' in the descriptions. Yes to grape type, vineyard, location and year plus any specific prodction comments.

No to any 'jilly goulden' type comments that just irritate and confuse - I'm getting whiffs of burnt rubber along with the taste of melons warmed by the morning sun ...

CC need basic training in wine too and especially info on the wines on board - shouldn't be too hard to prepare crib sheets for them along with the menus and then be able to suggest that wine X goes with the fish dish rather than a response 'its all nice'

Would be interested to know what process VS does when chosing the wines to go with a particular menu - do they taste both together or chosen seperartly.

Above all ensure wine is stored correctly on board - nothing as horrible as warm wine !

[honey lamb]

I agree with everything you've said, tonty.

ditto on not wanting the 'froth' in the descriptions. Yes to grape type, vineyard, location and year plus any specific prodction comments.

A wine tasting in Paris recently helped me understand a bit more as to what I should look for so I agree with that

No to any 'jilly goulden' type comments that just irritate and confuse - I'm getting whiffs of burnt rubber along with the taste of melons warmed by the morning sun ...

My point exactly. Anyway, who wants to drink burnt rubber? )

CC need basic training in wine too and especially info on the wines on board - shouldn't be too hard to prepare crib sheets for them along with the menus and then be able to suggest that wine X goes with the fish dish rather than a response 'its all nice'

True but when I flew on the VS18 the day the menu changed, the cabin crew standing beside me during boarding as I was perusing the new menu told me they didn't even know what wines were on board for this rotation as they were in bond until take-off. How could they know that without some briefing in those situations?

Would be interested to know what process VS does when chosing the wines to go with a particular menu - do they taste both together or chosen seperartly.

Above all ensure wine is stored correctly on board - nothing as horrible as warm wine !

A perfect reason for pairing

Pairings would work for me and a good crew understanding too. That said, I was served warm white wine on two recent flights including one back in PE last night, served out of a little plastic bottle - not sure that ever works v( v(

How about a nice British Fizz.....now that would be bold in UC. I would also like to see a dessert wine.

Two thoughts on this:

1. Good food and wine should speak for themselves, in my opinion. Tell us what they are and that's enough. (By all means suggest pairings with food.)

2. More generally, it would be better to concentrate energy and resources on the quality of the wine in the first place, rather than the description of it. The product is called Upper Class. So it should aim to be classy. The over-indulgent descriptions are the opposite of this! It all ends up sounding like one of those M&S adverts from a few years ago. Remember them?

"This is not just cheap plonk...
... this is cheap plonk that you only drink because you are on an aeroplane and you've paid a lot of money indeed for it."

[Decker]

ah yes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vn5MM38grw

nsfw

ah yes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vn5MM38grw

nsfw

That's just disturbing...

ah yes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vn5MM38grw

nsfw

definitely nsfw! LOL that's cross and I'm never eating sausages and mash again! 8D

Name and where it's from was always my main thing, but I'm not against all descriptions. I don't know that I would describe the wine as plonk, I buy 2 dollar bottles from Trader Joe's or Whole Foods (mostly, as they're around the corner) from time to time if I need large quantities to cook with in a daube or fish stew, and VS wines are invariably far better than that stuff

But I am no super taster - too many hot chilli peppers to ever be able to go back to that - and no real expert, so tasting notes are meaningless for the most part to me. They might be helpful if I can readily match them to a wine I know for which I can recall a similar description, but that's unlikely.

The problem you're trying to solve is how to give folks meaningful info about a wine in the 10 to 20 dollar range, tell them what to expect. Since, from time to time, VS has made off-the-beaten-path selections, I think some sort of description is important if you're to get folks to try it. For me, I like broad buckets ("this Chardonnay is crisp, in the burgundy style" or "oaky, like you find in California", something like that), and comparisons when you put a wine like a rose on the menu (tastes like wine X).

I want to say you had a Gruner Vertliner on the menu once, or maybe it was some obscure italian varietal. What's my reference point for picking this, nice and easy? Why should I drink it? I used to think it was great that VS would pick these sorts of wines, and this is when descriptions can really be helpful. For a Gruner or a Falanghina, tell me which of the well known wines it is close to, and what the main difference might be. I can use that kind of info. I can't taste flowers, berries, chocolate or cat pee in my wine, unfortunately, so that kind of description is well beyond me.

Suggesting pairings is a great idea, even with the disclaimers one should make about availability - there are some things could be done about this too. I would go as far as to say you should encourage a pax to request the pairings with the food they order, so crew will serve you a pairing glass of wine with each course, rather than relying on you to request the wine.

[Decker]

Good call marked man - when doing tasting menus I always opt for the matching wine flight so do the same on board

I am allergic to oaked wine so just look for enough basic information to make a considered choice rather than the fluffy overkill that has already been described. I agree CC could be be better informed.
Sadly It has been a few years since the food and wine menu on board brought a smile to my face - but perhaps I am just getting older!