Seat reservations removed without warning.

so check your booking regularly to see if your seats have been shifted. I do this about twice a week; Mrs V thinks this borders on OCD...

Oh dear, I check mine daily - what would Mrs V say to that? LOL

:0 :0

I check mine daily too even though we have had our long held requests changed twice at DTD check-in - to emergency exit seats. I wonder if our requested seats for our return flight in UC will be changed.

Katie

so check your booking regularly to see if your seats have been shifted. I do this about twice a week; Mrs V thinks this borders on OCD...

Oh dear, I check mine daily - what would Mrs V say to that? LOL

:0 :0

I'm almost as bad as that, I have to keep reminding myself I'm not flying for ages so that I don't check every day! I'm limiting myself to every other....

I do this about twice a week;

I check mine daily

I don't check every day! I'm limiting myself to every other...

I'm starting to understand why the VS website is rather slow sometimes...

Yes the same thing happened to us travelling back from Vegas last year had requested seats 11 months before, and being with VH we knew we would be in the bubble, had requsted 79 A & C did OLCI got to the airport 5 hours before departure

The agents at check in said you have 70 A & C right near the toilets no way i said anything but those on the return trip especially if you want a nap with people constantly going to the loo v( She would not budge and hubby had to drag me away as i was willing to stand my ground for anything different :0

as i suspected in the end we got no sleep and people queing in our space for the loo not pleasant. Hubby had to admit in the end never again.

Ok, I understand this "seat unbooking" thing to be a repetitive thing, but this is a scenario which bothers me.

Sure, I can ask for a seat n months in advance. Sure not guaranteed etc etc.

But if you've done OLCI, surely they are set then? Even five hours before the flight, how can someone have whipped your choice away from you? Doesn't OLCI actually reserve the seat? You've checked in, right?

If not, when is the seat actually yours?

Yes the same thing happened to us travelling back from Vegas last year had requested seats 11 months before, and being with VH we knew we would be in the bubble, had requsted 79 A & C did OLCI got to the airport 5 hours before departure

The agents at check in said you have 70 A & C right near the toilets no way i said anything but those on the return trip especially if you want a nap with people constantly going to the loo v( She would not budge and hubby had to drag me away as i was willing to stand my ground for anything different :0

as i suspected in the end we got no sleep and people queing in our space for the loo not pleasant. Hubby had to admit in the end never again.

Ok, I understand this "seat unbooking" thing to be a repetitive thing, but this is a scenario which bothers me.

Sure, I can ask for a seat n months in advance. Sure not guaranteed etc etc.

But if you've done OLCI, surely they are set then? Even five hours before the flight, how can someone have whipped your choice away from you? Doesn't OLCI actually reserve the seat? You've checked in, right?

If not, when is the seat actually yours?

I usually do OLCI, and have been moved at the gate before, and twice after boarding

[Neil]

After OLCI they might still need to move you for operational reasons. We had a situation where our party needed to be moved for special assistance needs and that meant two other parties had to be moved also, and this was literally just before check in closed after a good 40 or so mins of the agent trying to sort things out for us. It isn't easy for them and unfortunately they can't keep everyone happy all of the time.

In 2009 I had three flights booked to the USA for business reasons. Since I’m self employed through my own company I’d booked economy as I couldn’t stretch to the – albeit tax deductible – high cost of PE or UC. I’d been a member of this forum for a while and so was sufficiently interested/concerned about getting the best from the flight that I chose my seat carefully and checked regularly how busy the plane was etc. So it was disappointing when my seat was changed when I did OLCI for both of the first two flights and I ended up somewhere where I hadn’t wanted to be. Clearly not a big thing in the wider scheme but enough to annoy me.

The third time I was booked on the evening flight to NYC out of Heathrow. I knew I had a heavy day planned in London the day of the flight so was keen to get some rest on the plane – or at least as much as you can in economy. So I again chose my seat carefully and had it ‘confirmed’ to me (I know, I know...)But then I do OLCI and I have again been moved from one the ‘good’ two side seats at the back of the 747 to a middle seat in a block of 4 in the centre of the cabin. Nothing could be done when I asked at Heathrow and I was given the line about ‘ not guaranteed...condition x, subsection y of our contract with you.’

So I paid to upgrade to PE. And that was the last time I paid for a revenue flight with Virgin.

Since then my business has, I’m pleased to say, done very well and I now fly Business Class on my more frequent trips to the US and elsewhere. Last trip the Company even treated me to first class. I fly BA or others if they have special deals on offer when I book. And I’m very fortunate in that I can afford to take my family on nice holidays flying business class...but not with Virgin.

I still fly Virgin but only on reward flights. I have to stay in hotels a lot and like Hiltons so it makes sense to put the 1000 miles a night (or double/triple miles recently) to my Flying Club account and my wife and I take a UC trip somewhere nice every year on the back of it. UC is nice so long as I can avoid the dated 340-300’s. And I still value what I read on here to help me get the best from those trips.

My point is that my seat reservations may only have been on request and the small print may have explained that I can be moved but when it happened again and again I took the view that Virgin were either incompetent or else were so willing to suggest I would get something that they were actually unable or unwilling to make happen that I wasn’t willing to spend money with them anymore. That may be an over-reaction to a fairly minor change and I guess that Virgin are not going to go bust because I spend my money with other airlines. I may even come over to others as tiresome (I appreciate that clarkeysntfc has withdrawn that word but I do remember that was how I felt I was being assessed when I asked why I had, again, not got the seat I had requested that last time at Heathrow).

But it surely is such a simple and basic business point. You don’t annoy your customers by continuing to promise (or giving them the impression that you are promising) things that you can’t deliver. And if you do that, you shouldn’t be surprised when people go elsewhere. Even if it is ‘just’ a request for a specific seat on a plane.

The sooner VS remove high profile references to seat 'reservations' on their website the better. I wholeheartly agree with the final point made by Nickal in the prior post - ie. that VS very much give the impression that these are 'reservations'. Fully accept that once you delve deeper into VS's small print you'll deduce that these are requests, but that's not good enough - please VS - remove references to seat reservations because this is not service you offer.

On the other hand, aside from the B&S 747 cockups that we all know about does it really, truly go wrong that often? And when your seat moves do you always end up in the worst of the worst?

I'm not a very frequent flyer but I've never had a seat request changed and never experienced moans on board where it's obvious that someone else has been hard done by.

What would be nice in these occaisions would be to inform the passenger that the change occured and that they're sorry blah blah... Why not have an email notification box for seat changes and a 'I understand the risks' checkbox and if you don't fill it in then tough.

The sooner VS remove high profile references to seat 'reservations' on their website the better. I wholeheartly agree with the final point made by Nickal in the prior post - ie. that VS very much give the impression that these are 'reservations'. Fully accept that once you delve deeper into VS's small print you'll deduce that these are requests, but that's not good enough - please VS - remove references to seat reservations because this is not service you offer.

I was thinking exactly the same.

This is a demonstration of the inconsistency of the VS website - where the bits people actually read don't match the bits that people should read.

Also, seat requests don't "move" by themselves.... it has to be actively done by "someone".

Maybe I am being cynical but a couple of years ago my wife and I were coming from Las Vegas in UC on reward seats, with the front two seats booked "and requested" for many months. When we arrived to drop our bags off, we were told that our seats had been moved move back in the cabin as another couple had "asked" if they could have our seats as they wanted to sleep - I politely pointed out that was the same reason we had reserved those seats and insisted they honour our OLCI. When we got on board there were 2 VA staff sitting in our seats!

So this may be part of the problem - staff doing favours for friends, but I am sure some changes are forced as they need to accomodate families, etc but how on earth does that justify splitting up already booked family groups...

After reading the last couple of posts, I went into the VS web site and searched "seating information". I too agree that the wording of this policy does certainly need to be changed. It is ambiguously written and this is why the problem occurs.

VS need to alter the paragraphs where the word seat 'reservation' is mentioned over and over again. It should be clear that passengers can 'request' a seat and then at this point VS should explain exactly what they mean by that.

People do misintrepret the word 'reservation' though. When it comes to arranging an airline ticket (with whoever) my understanding is that 'reservation' actually refers to the purchase of a ticket and not the booking of an actual numbered seat. For instance, I've got a 'reservation' to stay in a hotel over the weekend. I've requested a sea view but until I checkin I won't know if that room is available and I certainly could not have stated I want room 206 on the 2nd floor!

What I have concerns about would be that VS opt to change to the BA seating policy where you pay to 'reserve' a numbered seat in advance. This means you cannot access their seat plan prior to OLCI. I believe that would create even further anxiety and panic.

Also, seat requests don't "move" by themselves.... it has to be actively done by "someone".

Maybe I am being cynical but a couple of years ago my wife and I were coming from Las Vegas in UC on reward seats, with the front two seats booked "and requested" for many months. When we arrived to drop our bags off, we were told that our seats had been moved move back in the cabin as another couple had "asked" if they could have our seats as they wanted to sleep - I politely pointed out that was the same reason we had reserved those seats and insisted they honour our OLCI. When we got on board there were 2 VA staff sitting in our seats!

So this may be part of the problem - staff doing favours for friends, but I am sure some changes are forced as they need to accomodate families, etc but how on earth does that justify splitting up already booked family groups...

On the contrary I don't think thats cynical. I've heard a fair few reports about people losing their prefered seats in order to "accomodate" staff !

I even read a report not too long ago about someone being bumped out of their prefered seat after boarding the aircraft to accomodate staff members that they had actually seen waiting at the gate on standby! :0 This wasn't on VS by the way - but lets be real...I believe this kind of thing probably happens on most airlines (VS included).

If this happened to me, I think I would have a very hard time holding my tongue!

Of course I'm all for staff perks/favors - so long as they are discreet and don't impact your paying customers.

I'm with Clarkey, it is tiresome that these things are brought up time and time again, usually by people who come, dump, cause a ruckus, and go ... mind you it happens less here than on FT in the VS forum, which just about drives me mad, and I'm about to give up on rebutting those.

I also agree it's kinder to be nice to a newbie, even one who wants to vent in a completely misdirected way.

But then I'm dreading the next six month during which there'll be a weekly "Is PE staying upstairs" "When do the LGW 747s get refitted" etc. posts - so while I note your comment Neil, I'd also suggest that newbies take time to read the site and glean information before posting a repetitive comment or question. I did. But then I tend to read T&Cs and understand the difference between 'request' and 'reserve'.

I'm with Clarkey, it is tiresome that these things are brought up time and time again, usually by people who come, dump, cause a ruckus, and go ... mind you it happens less here than on FT in the VS forum, which just about drives me mad, and I'm about to give up on rebutting those.

I also agree it's kinder to be nice to a newbie, even one who wants to vent in a completely misdirected way.

But then I'm dreading the next six month during which there'll be a weekly "Is PE staying upstairs" "When do the LGW 747s get refitted" etc. posts - so while I note your comment Neil, I'd also suggest that newbies take time to read the site and glean information before posting a repetitive comment or question. I did. But then I tend to read T&Cs and understand the difference between 'request' and 'reserve'.

oo) ^) oo) ^)

Without adding too much, this is one of the better aviation related forums for its friendliness etc. Before I post on forums that I do not frequent often (eg: PPrune) I will always read a thread or use the search function. Its hardly rocket science. In fact, if you google "LGW refits" google will direct you to the latest VF discussion, if using Pete's excellent search function is too tough.

Back OT....

Its a seat request. Its a luxury that you do not have to pay for it in this day and age a la BA/TOM etc. Its not the be all and end all. You have a seat on the plane and 99% of times the plane is large enough that you can get a block of seats with family etc at check in.

If you want to see real seat booking problems may I suggest an internal flight in Egypt on Petroleum Air Services.

With regard to contacting about changes in seat requests, if you look on this site there are plenty of complaints that VS do not email about changes in flight times even though they have the contact details

I have just logged into my booking and be informed that my inbound flight will arrive into LGW 10 mins later at the end of November from Orlando


Secondly there are seven 747's based at LGw, 4 have 451 seats and 3 have 452 seats.

If the 451 config changes to a 452 config and vice versa then this knocks out some of the seat requests due to the diffence is seat number and lay out. Even if the same seat and row exists on the other config there is still a risk of you losing your original REQUEST.

With the majority of aircraft swaps taking place within 14 days of departure this is when your seat request could change or vanish.

It also quite clearly states that no seating can ever be guaranteed on the select seats page of the My Booking area on the website, but people never take the time to read things.

Select a seat for the highlighted passenger by clicking available seats on the map below, or type an available seat number into the box next to the passenger name. Finish by clicking 'submit'. Please note some seats are held for assignment at check in.

To honour this request, Online Check In needs to be completed no later than 13 hours before your flight departs. Whilst we will always try our best to meet your requirements, please note that seat numbers are never guaranteed and are subject to operational changes.

I agree that the word "Reservation" is fundamentally wrong, as it breeds misinterpretation. Some of the less travel savvy among us will take that statement literally, much the same as a Restaurant reservation, so i think changing "reservation" to "request" would certainly help.

I hate to come across as cynical, but we now seem to live in a society consumed by the "Blame Culture". It's always someone's fault, but certainly not mine. We are at the cutting edge of technology. It wasn't that long ago that we were all hell bent on getting to the Airport 5 hrs before our flight to be 1st in the queue when the Desk opened. Every year it was the same. Every year, it was like a Next sale. It worked though, because of it's simplicity, namely, you got to the Airport early to get the best seats, and to guarantee sitting together. If you got there late, and were towards the back of a long, meandering queue, you were resigned to the fate of being allocated whatever was left. Technology is great, but a little research is required by all of us to better comprehend it's complexities.

The problem nowadays is that, thanks to tinternet, we all have access to a breathtaking amount of information, like Forums, review sites, etc. This certainly helps us tremendously with Holiday planning, but it can also be counterproductive, as it can lead to high levels of stress, if something previously not a concern to us, goes wrong. If it does go wrong, boy does someone have to pay. Just my opinion of course.

[Darren Wheeler]

http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/en/gb/pa ... ection.jsp

While it does use the word reserve 3 times, it does make it very clear that it can be changed due to operational requirements.

First of all yes I am a newbie and yes I have just joined to post this but I am looking for constructive advise from the experts.

Long story short family holiday to Florida booked for oct half term since mid of jan. I reserved sorry requested some nice seats for the 4 of us (747 config 1 23DEFG) out and back. I've been checking every week or so and last week the reservations both ways disappeared after a change of status message.

Ok so having done my research I realise that there is very little I can actually do about it so what are my best strategies for getting 4 seats together (preferably across the middle) bearing in mind that outbound I can't request 4 seats together anywhere on the plane and that coming back I wont have internet access (or the time) to do online check in but I can still get 4 together but across an isle.

I probably wouldn't be quite so annoyed if it wasn't for the fact that customer services have come out with phrases like "computer error" "change in aircraft" and "everyone has had to rebook their seats".

I'm sure a 9 hour flight to florida next to a 4 year old with my misses over the other side of the plane will be just fine.... Please help!

First of all yes I am a newbie and yes I have just joined to post this but I am looking for constructive advise from the experts.

Best advice- keep checking your booking to see if the seats magically reappear. At T-24 Hours be at OLCI to try and secure a row of four together, remember VS hold a percentage of seats back for proper check in, I cant remember the exact percent but no doubt Neil will be along in a minute to advise of the percentage. Failing that do twilight check in at LGW as you will be ahead of the masses.

As for at MCO do OLCI- I know you say you wont have access but its worth it. Judging by the queues for regular check in at MCO, hardly anyone (except Americans or those of us who have internet access) do it. It wont take much to either go into the Apple Store or find a starbucks. Failing that maybe DTDCI check in is worth a shot.

I probably wouldn't be quite so annoyed if it wasn't for the fact that customer services have come out with phrases like "computer error" "change in aircraft" and "everyone has had to rebook their seats".

I dont see why that annoys you. These issues happen from time to time. I was one that was affected by VS IT mistakingly, earlier in the year, somehow getting rid of all seat requests on my return from MCO. All worked out well in the end. Aircraft changes do happen from time to time and is the nature of the industry I am afraid. In my mind I could understand peoples annoyance if like on BA, they had paid for the service and lost the request. In the grand scheme of things, as I mentioned in my earlier post, VS do bloody well and getting everyone sat together, even if for you it would mean two and two behind each other for example.

[honey lamb]

Best advice- keep checking your booking to see if the seats magically reappear. At T-24 Hours be at OLCI to try and secure a row of four together, remember VS hold a percentage of seats back for proper check in, I cant remember the exact percent but no doubt Neil will be along in a minute to advise of the percentage. Failing that do twilight check in at LGW as you will be ahead of the masses.

It's 40% of seats that are held back for airport check-in.

As willd says, keep on checking regularly. It's not unknown for seats to be released a few hours before OLCI opens

It wont take much to either go into the Apple Store or find a starbucks. Failing that maybe DTDCI check in is worth a shot.

Would also need a laptop or the chutzpa to ask of a loan of one but most hotels have a 'business centre' that lets you do OLCI for free.

Failing that, and am not advocating it for computer security reasons (and probbaly in breach of FC T&C), is to let a friend back home have access to your FC account and do OLCI check-in for you and try and select a row of 4.

It wont take much to either go into the Apple Store or find a starbucks. Failing that maybe DTDCI check in is worth a shot.

Would also need a laptop or the chutzpa to ask of a loan of one but most hotels have a 'business centre' that lets you do OLCI for free.

Yes indeed but the beauty of an apple store is they have lots of laptops for you to use. Certainly at the Florida Mall apple store it is not uncommon to see people logging onto vs.aero to check in