Virgin Atlantic miles scheme - is there one?

Hi all,

Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere but I'm new to this forum and to be honest am at my wits end.

I have around 150,000 Virgin miles (between my wife and I) that I have accumulated through giving Virgin my business over the past few years. In the past 18 months I have tried on 5 different occasions to use these miles but have been unable to, on any flight. Does this scheme actually exist? I mean if this happened in any professional industry the firm would be under the eye of the ombudsman before they knew it and they'd be answering to all kinds of misrepresentation suits.

I've stopped booking flights with Virgin as a result (and have stopped all Virgin bookings across my firm - around 200 flights per year) as I'm still waiting for a response to a letter written 13 months ago about this. Am I being unreasonable in wishing to use a benefit which the company advertised to me and being totally ignored when questioning why I can't use this benefit?

I've just let the Virgin broadband folks know why I'd rather pay BT 10% more per year and they couldn't believe it either.

Not sure if I'm missing something or there is a secret word you need to utter to get any service but many thanks for any enlightenment anyone might be able shed on this?

Rob

[Neil]

I, and I know many others who have booked flights(and upgrades) with miles many times.

You don't say where, when, what class of travel you have tried to book, but the miles seats are limited on each flight and certain routes, so it does require flexibility. It always pays to check on a regular basis as there is no set system to how/when the reward seats are released.

[mitchja]

I never had any issues booking reward flights or spending my miles. My most recent reward flight was booked earlier this year. A return Upper Class flight to Sydney.

I don't understand why you have cancelled your Virgin broadband though as Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Media are 2 completely separate companies. You will be pleased to also learn that BT are increasing their line rental and call charges for a second time this year on December 3rd, so BT will then be the most expensive telephone companies in the UK for calls and line rental.

I'm surprised you've found no flights

In April this year I booked one economy reward flight and 2 PE reward flights to New York, within 2 weeks of travelling and on the days of my first choice. In August I booked 2 upper reward seats to Tokyo for next April - again on the dates I wanted.

If your firm was making 200+VS flights per year then surely you would have had a flying.co account whereby your firm would also accrue miles and with that volume of business would have qualified for discount fares too.

As to waiting 13 months for a response that is very strange - especially give the volume of flights your firm takes and the potential loss of business. VS can be slow sometimes to respond but 13 months would indicate to me that the letter has got lost in the system and probbaly never actually arrived. Did you not chase this up?

But I concur with the others, there are lots of reward seats available but they are popular and get booked up quickly and you also need to be flexible - even if just by a day or to and avoiding popular holiday times on the holiday routes. We often advise on here to e.g. to consider flying to SFO/LAX instead of LAS and MIA instead of MCO. Not always perfect but valid options for many.

If James managed to get reward tickets for the almost impossible to get LHR-SYD and back route then it does show there is availability as this is a very busy route. There are often stories here about people getting reward tickets.

The fact that the CAA or the consumer protection agencies have not launched any sort of investigation in to reward flights (not just VS) is an indication that the system is generally working well.

VS have always been clear that reward seats are availabilty dependent and there is no guarentee that they are available on any particular route on any particular date.

Thanks for the quick responses everyone,

It seems I'm unlucky then, but for every flight that I try and book I find it a bit strange that I can be the only person in this situation. I travel for business quite regularly, around 4 trips to the US a year and can't use the miles for upgrades on any of these, no matter which tickets I purchase (I have never tried to get a free flight). I have tried booking up to three months in advance (to be fair it's not often that I have that much pre warning, normally a month and a half or so) and still can't use the miles so I'm not sure that the class of travel nor the destination has anything to do with it. In fact if I was aware of any such 'clauses' I wouldn't have bothered spending tens of thousands of the company money with any single airline and would have looked at other reward schemes (Amex Gold / Platinum rewards schemes offer a lot more flexibility with multiple airlines, hotels and services). It is interesting to see that two of the responses are from moderators of this forum, not saying that favoritism is in play but risk management simply can't be ruled out.

Regarding the broadband, yes they are separate companies but if you're unhappy with a 'brand' it wouldn't make much sense doing business with the same brand for another product. From what I can see Virgin is all about branding and as such I see no point in spending money with a firm that I feel has let me down with a separate business line under the same brand. As I mentioned, it's not the cost, it's the way I'm treated after offering loyalty to a brand. If BT put their prices up and continue to supply me with a fibre optic high speed line (which they support fully, and offer me free calls to the US and Africa) then they'll get my loyalty, if not then I'll consider moving from them as well. Hope that explains things?

I wasn't aware that only a few seats are available for 'miles usage' on each flight. In fact in doing the math there will be folks (like me) who will simply never be able to redeem their miles on flights which I find to be misleading if not dishonest. Imagine the supermarket loyalty schemes where as contrived.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, most appreciated.

I would not describe myself as a 'frequent flyer' (unfortunately!) - it's probably only 2 or 3 return flights per year; however, to date, I have had no problems using my miles to either buy or upgrade flights, and mostly within the time frame I have in mind, if not the actual day, so I have no complaints at all with the redemption process.

Maybe you have just been unlucky with the dates/routes you are looking at?

[honey lamb]

It is interesting to see that two of the responses are from moderators of this forum, not saying that favoritism is in play but risk management simply can't be ruled out.

Your statement that two of the responses are from moderators and the implication of favouritism is totally incorrect. V-Flyer is completely independent of Virgin Atlantic and the powers that be in the Flying Club would be completely unaware of the identity of the moderators should they wish to make a booking for a reward flight. What the moderators (and others) do know is how to be flexible when it comes to booking reward flights, the classes of fares to book in Economy and PE to get a miles upgrade, the fact that the LGW planes only have 14 seats in UC and therefore reward seats are less likely and that school holidays are generally speaking not a good time to look for rewards. All this has been learned from the shared knowledge on this site.

Bob welcome and thanks for an interesting first post y) . I cannot comment on Virgin Media, the one enquiry I sent to them never got a response, so I didn't pursue :w .

As to miles and redemptions or upgrades - you probably know many of the rules in terms of fare codes that are eligible etc. But I too am surprised that you've not been able to use them. Three weeks I booked to go to SFO, with about five days notice, and I bagged a miles upgrade on one leg (I found space in Upper for the return, but on the dates I wanted to travel out UC was full, I then moved that leg by a day and got the upgrade). Last week I booked a return to LAX and back from IAD with miles ... last month I travelled to Dallas via Newark, and found a miles upgrade on one of my legs, again at short notice.

You will see comment here that some routes, at some times of year are very difficult to get upgrades, e.g.:

- LGW planes with the small UC cabins during UK family holidays = virtually impossible.
- SYD, all the way, very difficult but not impossible and some good results have been noted.
- London-New York on a Monday or Friday being peak business travel times, it can be touch to get a redemption or upgrade - but that's the same on AA, BA, et al.

ALL airlines restrict redemptions on flights, they have to, it's just common commercial sense. But, doing the math, they are taken up ... even by people like you, that is not misrepresentation. If you want to travel in October to New York in Upper Class, here, right now, are the dates on which you could do it:

So, while several people will agree that getting a miles seat can be difficult at certain times, all of us here revel in our ability to do so, sometimes with a bit of planning and flexibility.

TontyBear, thanks for your comprehensive response.

We don't have a corporate account with Virgin or any other airline and the move to use Virgin was actually encouraged by me across the firm after using miles (I've had around 200,000) in the past without any issue. We allow individuals to build up loyalty points at their discretion which they can use for upgrades (we won't pay for business class seats as an internal policy - economic slowdown etc...) or even for the personal use. However I wasn't sure that miles scheme was still running given the recent issues I've had in utilizing this and alarm bells rang that we could be wasting our 'loyalty' if this were the case. As I recommended Virgin internally and I have this issue then I'm not prepared to recommend them further to my colleagues, in fact if I didn't inform them of my issues and relinquish my support the issues rub off on me directly.

I must say that I wasn't aware of the limited seats available for miles usage policy. This is my own fault for not reading the small print and not actually having a previous issue it just didn't occur to me.

Thanks again everyone, I'm learning pretty fast that miles are not really a valuable business tool. My only flexibility is over the weekends as my time is simply not my own during the week and I need to be where the business demands, not at the airlines discretion. I can't ask the people I fly in to meet with to change their schedules so that I can use air miles, I think they'd think I was joking, and fairly so -)

Apologies for the comment on the moderators, it is pretty easy to jump to conclusions though especially when you feel completely left out in the cold after a year and a half of trying to redeem something I feel I've already committed my spend to while others seem to jump on a plane within 5 days notice.

Hi bob and welcome to v-flyer y)

If you want more flexibility with availability in a FF program then open a BA account as you will find much more availability and for for less miles on a MFU booking, overall this has to be a better option

cheers

alex

Bob - do you have a Flying Company account? I recommend you look up this, under the Corporate and Trade menu item on the VS Web site. If you'd like some more info on this than you can see there, please PM me.

Hi to Bob. As Slinky said, very interesting first topic!

Have you ever tried calling the Flying Club Call Center? I find them quite useful before I learned how to work the fare codes and online M+M and Spend Miles sections on the website.

Getting reward flights or miles upgrades isn't difficult if you can be slightly flexible. I did the same as Slinky for my upcoming trip to SFO. Got a return upgrade to UC but decided that I wanted the outbound too but I had to move my departure day back from Mon to Sat. The call centre people are always happy to try and work something out with you so it might be best to call them when you know you are travelling.

Hi Bob

Welcome and thanks for sharing your views on the forum.

I know when I first collected Flying Club miles some years ago, I found them difficult to redeem and in frustration I bought Eurostar returns to Paris for the family and spent them that way.

It was not until I flew regularly and discovered this site, in particular the fare codes section in the toolbox (above), that I began to understand the inherent complexity. I was aggrieved that I could never get an airport upgrade. I was regularly told: "Sorry sir you are on the wrong type of ticket". I also got to grips with what folks here call "buckets" or different codes of ticket in each class and the restrictions attached to them.

It also became clear to me that calling the Flying Club hotline is a much better way of finding suitable reward flights than searching online.

The result is that I now know the rules and restrictions (complex as they are) and can take advantage of the offers. As most of the other replies have noted, flexibility is the key, as well as avoiding key routes during peak holiday times. Booking early helps - 11 months in advance, and sometimes leaving it late works if you don't have fixed dates.

As a result I'm taking my first ever reward flights to Australia early next year for myself and my wife.

Good luck

Martin

It is interesting to see that two of the responses are from moderators of this forum, not saying that favoritism is in play but risk management simply can't be ruled out.

Your statement that two of the responses are from moderators and the implication of favouritism is totally incorrect. V-Flyer is completely independent of Virgin Atlantic and the powers that be in the Flying Club would be completely unaware of the identity of the moderators should they wish to make a booking for a reward flight. What the moderators (and others) do know is how to be flexible when it comes to booking reward flights, the classes of fares to book in Economy and PE to get a miles upgrade, the fact that the LGW planes only have 14 seats in UC and therefore reward seats are less likely and that school holidays are generally speaking not a good time to look for rewards. All this has been learned from the shared knowledge on this site.

As honey says, the only difference is that the moderators tend to have more experience - that and the experience of others here is certainly what draws me back, along with the friendliness of all concerned.

With regard to booking reward flights - I have very little experience compared to almost all on here, as I only get to fly once or maybe twice a year. That said, I've booked reward flights (miles to entirely pay for flights), or miles plus money flights with no problems. Yes, you do often need to have some flexibility as to where and when you fly, but the flights are definitely there.

Hope I haven't repeated what someone else has said!

Myself and my partner use miles every year for a west coast trip. Over 5-6 years we've always got dates we wanted give or take a day or two either side. We're lucky enough not to have to go in peak school hols. I tend to book book bang on the eleven month threshold (of seats being offered for sale) so as to stand the best change of clinching the G's (UC rewards). That said I'm finding these days that even closer to the time G's pop up, as others have said above getting short time reward availability is pretty common. For me though, as its an annual holiday an other bookings are involved (hotels, cars..etc) I like the certainty of clinching my reward fares eleven months in advance.

Thanks
James

I'm really taken back by the amount of helpful advice I've received on this forum after scouring the web for help! This is simply incredible and I'd like to thank you all for your advice and guidance, I feel as if I've just been picked for the 1st football team and am being patted on the back as I run on for my first game (now that I know the rules-).

I'm going to put an hour aside this afternoon and spend some time speaking to airline agents to see what I can get. I'll let you all know if I shoot and score later on !!

To save yourself (and the call-centre staff) some time, have some destinations and dates in mind (and class of travel) when you call. Explain what you've tried and failed to be able to do previously and you'll find virgin very helpful.

As said above, be realistic abour routes and dates (Sydney at Xmas is going to be rare for example - but sometimes you might get lucky!). Virgin don't have truck-loads of reward seats, and the availability varies as time passes, but there most def are seats available - just make it easier for them by having some planned dates ready.

Most importantly, let us know how you get on! y)

Viz.

[honey lamb]

A couple of more tips. If you choose to pay an upgradeable fare in economy and then use miles for PE or UC make sure that there is availability in the other cabin otherwise you end up paying more than you need to for an economy seat. You can always purchase in a lower bucket and then pay the difference to an upgradeable fare.

If all that is available is a PE seat and you are looking for UC, depending on the route, nab the PE seat and then keep checking for UC availability. Playing the waiting game can pay off and even if it doesn't you will still have a good experience with PE.

Good luck with your search y)

Hi Bob

Good luck in your search.

From what you've said about your travel, I'd be surprised if you couldn't find any way to redeem your miles. I've managed to spend about 200,000 miles this year on reward flights. One was booked literally at the last minute (plenty of availability opened up near the departure date) and one was a West Coast redemption which had to be on fixed dates. I just kept looking and then pounced when the seats became available.

Perseverance was the key.

Right, just realized I have 30,000 + miles with BA. Gave them a call (as recommended) and have managed to get a business class return to the US!

I can't thank everyone enough, I'm laughing out loud (as the acronym goes!). Now I just need to convince Virgin to switch my miles with them into BA miles -)

I think that the Virgin scheme is BRILLIANT - particularly compared with my experiences with other airlines

We use miles for a 'big' holiday every year, and by booking 330 days in advance (the max allowed under IATA - although Virgin sometimes offer tickets at up to 335 days), we've NEVER not been able to book the flights / route / dates we want

We've booked UC for Boston next year, LA this year, Perth Via KL on Malaysian (1st class), and the year before to Bali via Singapore on Singapore (Suites class - which you can't do now)

If we'd have bought the tickets above (which we wouldn't have) then we wouldn't have had any change out of £50K - show me ANY loyalty reward programme anywhere (not just airlines) that can give you a payback of this amount

But besides the 'monetary value' the FUN and EXPERIENCE we've had on these flights / journeys is Invaluable

Peter

Don't forget that you can use VS miles on other airlines as well although I accept these are much harder to get.

Now I just need to convince Virgin to switch my miles with them into BA miles -)

I won't hold your breath on that one !

Don't forget that you can also spend VS miles with Hilton Hotels and transfer VS miles to HH points so that might be worth a try and far better than them just expiring and you getting no benefit from them.