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#793604 by Darren Wheeler
14 Oct 2011, 16:36
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Another very enjoyable flight.

This trip actually started on the 12th, but rather than have all the different legs in separate TR's, I'll combine them in one.

Normally, I just do the flight directly from LHR on a sale fare, but as the sale prices weren't that good this time round, it was time to investigate the AMS routing to save a few pennies...

Doing the pricing up on the web via ebookers I decided to take the plunge and save quite a lot of pennies in the process and turn this trip into a whole series of first for me. Having fired up Excel, I started putting all the different flights and hotels for the whole trip. Sounds very geeky (and it is) but save missing off a vital leg.

Firstly, a BA flight LHR-AMS. Total cost was £58 for an economy seat leaving T5 (first time for me). Before heading to T5, I stopped of at T3 to meet a couple of friends coming back on that days VS20 and to surprise them a bit. The other reason for going to T3 was to drop my main bag off at the Left Luggage desk. Three reasons for this. 1. To save me dragging it to AMS and back without opening it. 2. I don't trust BA to maintain priority baggage on a through-flight. 3. To speed my transit up. The cost of £8.50 for 4-24 hours is well worth it in my opinion.

Greetings done, then down to the HEX for the short hop to T5. As I say, this is my first time thought T5 for a flight so was a bit of an experience. First thing I notice s how everything seems to be up. I'm not sure where ground level actually is so perhaps there isn't any ground there, it's just up. I also hoped to meet another friend landing into T5, but as time was ticking, I couldn't wait long. I'd used the BA app to check-in to my flight the night before and used the electronic boarding card to clear security. Works very well indeed (come on VS...). Security was heaving and the guy behind me had the most terrible BO. Not the just-dashed-across-an-airport BO, but that have-not-washed-or-changed-in-a-week stench :$ Full searches and shoe circus were in full swing but once at the desk, it didn't take too long to clear. Food was needed as both breakfast and dinner seemed a long way off. Popped to Wagamama and wished I hadn't. The food was as good as usual, but the service terribly slow. Took an age to be seated and when I said I didn't need a menu as I knew what I wanted (chicken Katsu curry) I expected the order to be taken very quickly, but no, waited and waited. When it was taken, the food arrived quickly, but had to wait for someone to take my money. While waiting, I noticed what seemed to be a staff meeting going on. Whilst Wagamama isn't fast food, you'd think they would like to turn tables quickly.

A short walk down to Gate 2 for the flight and I'd forgotten what non-priority boarding is like... Chaos!! Soon boarded and at in seat 12A having made sure I got overhead space. As usual, carry-on sizes were routinely ignored. This was my first BA flight since 2004 and the one thing that did strike me was how stand-offish the crew were. Barely a smile or a word of greeting. The second thing that stood out was all electronics off once on-board. No using until the doors are closed etc. Flight was full but pushed back roughly on time and was soon in the air. A cup of tea, Rocky Robin bar and a few minutes of Queen on the iPod later, we began our descent into Schiphol. Pretty much straight to gate and being well forward, it didn't take long to exit. The walk to passport control seems to take an age for what was a mere cursory glass at said passport. Having no bags to collect, I was through the terminal ond outside in just a few minutes. A very damp and chilly arrival into Amsterdam.

I'd booked a night at the CitizenM hotel following HL's stay http://v-flyer.com/forum/index.php?f=5& ... ic#p785731 and have added my thoughts to TripAdvisor http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserRevi ... lland.html

Next morning, well I say morning as it still felt like last night, I trotted off back to the terminal for the next leg, back to LHR. As I had booked this on ebookers, I was travelling on a single ticket so had the protection that brings. Again had checked-in the day before using the BA app but couldn't get the boarding card to show on my phone. As no baggage, the kiosk gave the card and off I headed to the gate. As I booked the flight as Business Class I was in Club Europe so had access to Galleries if I wanted. I preferred more sleep so didn't bother. Leaving from gate D16, it felt like I was walking to Rotterdam and had to keep side-stepping the early morning dawdlers that fill airports, especially as the boards were showing "gate closing". On arrival I found there was no need to have rushed as there was still a long line at security. No shoe circus here and soon aboard in 1C. Club was very quiet and with no-one in 1A either, I had good prospects for an early get-away.

Again, barely engaging cabin crew and when I turned down breakfast, I got what can be best described as a mini-flounce off. Haveing read HL's review from earlier this year, I knew what to expect so declined. What I was go out made me realise I'd made the right choice and what came back confirmed it. Total waste of 'food' that for such a short hop could easily be done away with. It was nice to get a cuppa in a china mug that strong enough to please any builder and went very well with my emergency ration of an oatmeal and raisin cookie I'd got 2 days earlier. Quick landing and onto a gate at the main terminal. Second off the plane to an empty immigration hall. Slightly more thorough examination of my passport this time and through. Again, no baggage to collect so straight down to the bowels of T5 to hatch the HEX to T3.

Overall impressions of BA short haul. Not impressed. if Easyjet operated out of LHR I'd have used them. Felt like us passengers were an inconvenience to them. next time, might try KLM out of T4 instead.

Now dear readers, the Virgin part.

The ride to T3 took 4 minutes and with another lift was back in the terminal to collect my bag. A quick re-pack was done (a little too quick as you'll see) and I was across the forecourt to the Upper Check-in by just after 8am. Arrived next in line as had a wait of less than a minute for which I received a profuse apology. Checked in using the VS app had secured SEQ5 and seat 18K. On handing over my passport I was addressed by name and my AU status was recognised too. Bag tagged, boarding card issued and I was in the lift going up to the PSC. Screening took seconds and got a knowing look when I said my belt buckle was plastic - here was a passenger who knows the score...

More dawdler-dodging through duty-free and I was at the foot of the hallowed Grand Staircase. Greeted warmly and addressed by name again by the 'Dragon' who mentioned that the password for the WiFi had changed. First stop, Cowshed and got myself a massage for 10am but could have it later if I wanted. As per previous trips, the 'No pre-booking' policy works very well for me but I know others will disagree. By now the emergency ration was wearing off and proper food was needed. No Cloak of Invisibility as I'd just put my bag down when one of the servers appeared to take my order. Tradition had to be observed and Eggs Benedict, twice was ordered along with a pot of tea and after a hint, a cranberry juice. One advantage of the later departure of the 19 is that I had extra time in the Clubhouse even though I arrived over an hour later than I normally do (one has to get ones monies worth..). Breakfast arrived quickly and was excellent too. Logged on to the WiFi and see it is now through Virgin Media instead of T-Mobile. No issues with speed and now you are allocated a UK IP Geolocation so you get the UK BBC News page and iPlayer is available. Popped over to the Cowshed for my massage and it was just what I needed. I felt several 'pops' as knots were worked out or my back and shoulders which I blame on carry a shoulder bag around various airport terminals. Thanked my therapist and as usual, tipped her (I know, whole different debate) and fancied a freshen up, decided to make use of the spa.

Doing my quick re-pack, I was too quick and forgot to transfer my surfers to my hand baggage. Checking at the Cowshed desk, they didn't have any disposable ones and I was not paying airport prices for a pair. Instead, I was offered a robe and could dangle my legs in the spa. Before that, I made full use of the steam rooms and showers to "open the pores and detox your skin". A quick spa dip, use of the sauna and yet another shower, I felt refreshed. More sustenance was needed so a pop to the deli for some bread and brie. My attentive server from earlier sought me out and offered a little something from the bar - how very dare he!!! :D A Redhead was chosen and it was delicious. By now there had been a steady stream of flights being called and after the 5, the Clubhouse was very quiet again.

Around noon, the 19 was called and would de departing from gate 16. The one thing I have noticed is that flights are given first call, then final call followed by named call. No second calls. Needing a walk I headed of, but first had a chat with the Clubhouse manager to give some positive feedback on both my server and the lady at the Cowshed desk. I'd done it on-line too, but it's nice to give it at the time for immediate cascade. He mentioned it was coming up to annual review time so was very please to hear it. Hopefully it will all get passed on.

On the walk down to gate 16, I had a sudden thought. I hadn't seen my wallet recently. Cue lots of rummaging in bag, checking pockets multiple times, pulling everything out of bag, all while heart rate racing... Eventually found it in picket I don't normally use. Mild panic passed, back to walking... G-VWOW, Cosmic Girl was waiting for me and the gate was empty so no issues with priority boarding through door L1. Greeted by name again and a little chat about nearly-lost wallet I was in 18K. Disappointed that there was no 12/14 A/K overhead show today. Champagne offered before I had even sat down and made sure the CC knew to call me Darren. Hate being Mr and 'Sir' even less. AU status was also recognised again.

Pushed back on time and only a short taxi before we were ready and a nice little touch, the pilot managed to get clearance before coming to a complete stop so still had momentum. Took off towards the East and rapidly climbed out. First drinks round was done but I choose to take mine at the bar. G&T supplied and after a hunt by CC, lime was found. y) Happy Days!! No olives as nibble, just crinkle-cut crisps. Not impressed by the new swizzle sticks, but hey. Had a chat about the new service that starts in November and the CC said they hadn't had any training for it yet. Hope it gets resolved soon or might not be an auspicious start. The FSM spent most of their time in PE and Y, but that had no discernible impact on the Upper service.

While sat at the bar, meal order was taken and AU status recognised yet again, so no issues with choice.
Starter - Risotto
Main - Beetroot Tortellini
Dessert - Lemon Mascapone tart.

The risotto was very nice, but about 30 seconds over-cooked so just on the edge of going mushy. Still edible and tasty. I must be difficult getting risotto right for a flight so no loss of marks there.
The beetroot tortellini was delicious and a very good-sized portion too. So much so that I couldn't eat it all.
No such problem with the lemon mascopone tart. Light and zesty.

For wine, I went for the obelsburg Grüner Veltliner Loessterrassen. Different (never had Austria down as a wine producer) and very nice. I think I was the only person who had it too.

Nice mug of tea and a piece of chocolate finished it off. Seconds for tea was gratefully accepted and the chocolate saved for another day. :)

To my shame, I passed on the cheese plate as was quite stuffed and the early start was catching up with me. Struggled to watch a few episodes of The A-Team (Ain't gettin' on no plane, Hannibal!) but gave in and converted the seat to have a snooze. Managed about 3 hours on and off and was more dozing than sleeping, but it did charge my batteries.

With 2 hours to go, I fired up V-Port and started to watch Battle: Los Angeles. Harmless hokum but then so have all other films along the same name. Offered some Light Bites an went for the mini burger and a cream tea which finished off the flight. Soon the CC were securing the cabin for descent and a smooth landing into SFO under a cloudless sky, just before 4pm. Said my thank yous' to the CC and a quick exit from L1. Immigration hall was empty so processed very quickly. Priority baggage worked too with no issues at customs. I even timed it all and 13 minutes from plane door to arrivals hall. At least with the later arrival, you miss the BA, AF and Pakistan flights. I now see that at SFO, baggage carts are now free when they use to charge about $4 for them. They even have someone saying "free baggage carts". Not that I needed one, but nice to see on less 'extra' being charged for.

Up to the BART and arrived at my hotel by about 5pm.

Had my first celebrity spot too, although celebrity is probably pushing the envelope to bursting and then some... It was (if not his spitting image) Kris Marshall from My Family and that guy off the BT adverts. Although he does need to learn the lines about remaining seated with seatbelt fastened until the sign is turned off and switching off all electronic items... He was in a big hurry as he sprinted up to immigration, only to be delayed as it looked like he was on a visa, then running around the baggage carousel after his bag, then delayed again at Customs as his form wasn't completed and they wouldn't let him go until it was.

In summary, I need to split it up a bit.

BA side.
Very poor. Felt like a burden rather than a paying passenger and certainly not inspired me to try them unless I have to.

Virgin side.
Another fantastic flight with good food and an engaging, attentive crew who clearly knew what was expected of them. I'll be sending feedback to Virgin in the next few days. Even more reinforcement (if it was ever needed) that I have chosen to hitch my travel to the right airline.

The whole AMS routing.
If you want to save a whole bundle of cash on an Upper flight (I think the value drops too much for PE or Y) then have a long, hard look at this. OK, you need to have the extra day to make it work, get a single hop to AMS and look at a hotel, but you will still save a good wedge. My top tip would be: Try to do it with hand baggage only.
There is one question that has bugged me about it... Normally, if you fail to take the first leg of a flight, all the remaining legs are cancelled. But what would happen if I checked in for the VS flight, dropped my bag off and had it accepted into the system all before my BA flight closed? Would the system still cancel you and your bag off-loaded, or would it go "ERROR. daisy, daisy.." and accept you on the flight? I just don't know, and don't fancy taking the chance.
#793606 by flabound
14 Oct 2011, 17:08
so you went LHR-AMS on one booking then AMS-LHR-SFO ?? presumably all on one booking so the mid way LHR didnt really count ? Do you mind telling us what the total fare differences were ?could be worth a look
#793609 by Guest
14 Oct 2011, 17:24
Great Trip Report Darren, thank you for taking the time to post (&so quickly after the flight!).

I've taken HL's wonderful advice and booked an AMS-SFO for next year.

Your CitizenM review on TA was great to read and again sounds like a great experience!

Pleased to hear it went smoothly on the VS front, glad your AU was acknowledged so frequently! I'd also be interested in the luggage query - to complete bag drop at LHR before the AMS bit would be much easier! We've considered leaving our luggage with friends nearby and having them drop it off!

Flabound - I saved over £1000 on the AMS flight, even after BA flight to AMS and 1 night hotel in AMS! Yes it's an extra days holiday, but £1000 goes very far in $$ for holiday!

Cal
#793611 by Petmadness
14 Oct 2011, 17:46
Fabulous TR! Really informative and got me looking into the routing to save a wedge :D Unsurprised to hear about BA crew, although should be careful what I say as my niece has just got her wings for them :?
Great to hear about the quality of the VS CC y) Still a furlong ahead of BA ^)
#793612 by pjh
14 Oct 2011, 18:08
Excellent TR, thanks. Been there with the "aaargh where's my wallet / passport / keys / brain" cold sweat too many times now.

Priced up an AMS routed round trip to NYC in UC for the week before Christmas. I may be doing something wrong, but computer says ex LHR GBP 4,100, ex AMS GBP 1,700. Admittedly before flight to AMS and overnight hotel, but still....

(Edited to correct over statement of ex LHR pricing)
Last edited by pjh on 14 Oct 2011, 21:34, edited 1 time in total.
#793613 by tontybear
14 Oct 2011, 18:12
Thanks for the TR Darren.

No sign of Binky though n( n(

And as for no cheese plate - v( v( v(

The idea of leaving your main luggate in LHR left luggage to check in when you get back there is one to bear in mind. One of my hesitations about doing the AMS 'trick' was having to lug my case on the extra legs.
#793614 by tontybear
14 Oct 2011, 18:16
pjh wrote:Excellent TR, thanks. Been there with the "aaargh where's my wallet / passport / keys / brain" cold sweat too many times now.



Once left my passport/BP on the sweet counter, had an 'oh fcuk' moment when I was sorting myself out then the call to the concierge desk !

Not as bas though as dropping my coat on the stairs and getting 1/2 way to the gate though before noticing then back to the CH then back to the gate!
#793621 by DragonLady
14 Oct 2011, 18:57
Thank you for the great TR Darren- I'm looking forward to my flight tomorrow even more now :D .
I'm not sure that I could do with all the faffing flying through AMS though, but I know it works for some and the cost saving force me re-consider in the future :) .
DL
#793624 by honey lamb
14 Oct 2011, 20:22
Excellent trip report, Darren. Your experience mirrored mine - except of course that I ate the BA breakfast and suffered the consequences :$

The tip about using the left luggage facility in LHR was an excellent one for those leaving from LHR for the AMS leg y)

flabound wrote:so you went LHR-AMS on one booking then AMS-LHR-SFO ?? presumably all on one booking so the mid way LHR didnt really count ? Do you mind telling us what the total fare differences were ?could be worth a look

The fare difference was well worth it from my perspective even though I booked during a VS fare sale. The fare seems to be a fixed one so the savings are even greater when measured against a normal Z fare. Having said that, the savings ex-AMS are not available on all routes. I recently booked a fare sale flight to Dubai which was cheaper on the VS website than ex-AMS.
#793629 by Martin
14 Oct 2011, 21:45
Great TR Darren, thanks for posting. Interesting to hear about the AMS routing and I'm trying to work out if the extra faff of two flights and a hotel night is worth it. Looking at PJH's cost saving of £2400 less a bit for the extras, it seems it may well be!
#793630 by honey lamb
14 Oct 2011, 22:25
Martin wrote:Great TR Darren, thanks for posting. Interesting to hear about the AMS routing and I'm trying to work out if the extra faff of two flights and a hotel night is worth it. Looking at PJH's cost saving of £2400 less a bit for the extras, it seems it may well be!

I certainly found it to be so.

With regard to the extra flight I think a lot of it is to do with one's frame of mind. For my part, I have to fly into LHR as it is so one extra flight is not going to put me up nor down. In any case I love flying and every flight I take is an adventure even if it's a puddle jump across to the UK. For someone for whom flying is a chore or who is genuinely afraid then I can see that it may not be worth the savings and indeed in some cases they might not be so great. A lot depends on so many variables just as with any airline pricing
#793633 by buns
14 Oct 2011, 22:59
Darren

Thanks for a truly excellent TR y) y)

The AMS routing is certainly food for thought and to have sterling service from VS right from the start at LHR until you arrived at SFO is icing on the cake

Hope the rest of your trip is of equally high calibre


buns
#793635 by tontybear
14 Oct 2011, 23:04
It depends where you want to fly and how far in advance you book

I am looking at a short notice trip to NYC for a couple of weeks time (out 27/10 and back 2/11)

VS is quoting £ 3706
Opodo AMS 'trick' - £ 1976

Now that does look like quite a saving but I can fly Delta direct from LHR in Business for £1,501 or Swiss (via ZRH) for £ 1544

Now I do like flying VS but I like saving money even more!
#793732 by at240
16 Oct 2011, 12:25
tontybear wrote:VS is quoting £ 3706
Opodo AMS 'trick' - £ 1976

Now that does look like quite a saving but I can fly Delta direct from LHR in Business for £1,501 or Swiss (via ZRH) for £ 1544


You're right -- in fact opodo has those Delta flights at £1471 which saves £2235 compared to the VS/BA fares! :0

Brand loyalty disappears pretty rapidly when the differential is that large!
#793738 by tontybear
16 Oct 2011, 14:07
at240 wrote:
Brand loyalty disappears pretty rapidly when the differential is that large!


Yes indeed and I think you can guess which airline I will be be flying with (trip to be confirmed tomorrow)

Though I would re-iterate that this was for a flight to happen in the next two weeks.

The figures change if I were to fly further out and if a VS Z fare was available. So in mid Jan the VS (Z) fare is £ 2366 and via AMS £ 1803 - Still a 'saving' though but I could again get the Delta direct from LHR for £ 1850 (and without the extra expense of a flight and hotel in AMS)

These fares work best for some routes and for some people better than others. People need to do their research carefully.
#793784 by catsilversword
17 Oct 2011, 05:48
Very entertaining Darren. I'm guessing your UC flights weren't bought in the sale - or were they? The split trip is something I've ruminated over, but the extra time had kind of scared me off.

Interesting to see your views (and that of others) about BA staff - very different to what the current ads would have you believe!
#793785 by Jacki
17 Oct 2011, 06:54
Loved the TR and I'm beginning to think I too should be considering the AMS route y)
#793787 by MarkedMan
17 Oct 2011, 08:22
It would be be interesting to know if these fares book into Z from AMS all the time (exception might be if the flight is really full I suppose). Contextual load management is not commonly thought of for VS, I am sure, it's normal to look at its fares as point to point, but this is pretty common practice. AMS-SFO is a different flight than LHR-SFO with a different competitive profile, and you will see different pricing and different fare buckets available. Occasionally this is an oversight, usually it's intentional. If you were doing it on BA, you'd just gladly accept the extra tier points ...

The trickiest thing with this practice comes into play if you are purposely planning to NOT take a flight. In some cases that might be considered a violation of T&Cs - you'll certainly get into trouble if you routinely do it with flights all on the same airline. Otherwise this is just dandy. If you were doing this with BA, Lisbon is another place from where this usually works, for example - and that starts to play into your holiday plans more directly :D

Still, as Tonty shows, LHR is a very competitive market even with flights ex-LHR, and it's usually not too hard to find a good fare if you look beyond a single airline. Even Air NZ has some interesting pricing propositions LHR-SFO from time to time, even if flight 1 gets into LAX late enough you probably won't reach SFO until close to midnight.
#793789 by honey lamb
17 Oct 2011, 08:53
MarkedMan wrote:It would be be interesting to know if these fares book into Z from AMS all the time (exception might be if the flight is really full I suppose).

I don't think they do. Recently I was pricing fares ex-AMS to JNB and on one or two dates the price spiked significantly suggesting to me that on those dates the fares were being priced into the D bucket. Similarly I booked a flight to DXB a couple of weeks ago and for once it was cheaper to fly direct than take the AMS option.

catsilversword wrote:Very entertaining Darren. I'm guessing your UC flights weren't bought in the sale - or were they? The split trip is something I've ruminated over, but the extra time had kind of scared me off.


The price ex-AMS is not affected by fare sales and remains the same regardless of sales. The only time the fare is affected is when the Z bucket has been sold out and it goes into a higher bucket
#793833 by Darren Wheeler
17 Oct 2011, 16:18
honey lamb wrote:The price ex-AMS is not affected by fare sales and remains the same regardless of sales. The only time the fare is affected is when the Z bucket has been sold out and it goes into a higher bucket


Interestingly, a bit of playing indicates that the 42-day rule for Z fares in either not enforced or you get a full J. There is very little change in price for less than 7 days than when I booked. You don't get the fare code until you pay though.
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