Lapsed VS flyers? Why?

Folks,

In passing with number of previously very regular VS flyers (including prominent individuals on this very website), I have asked when they last flew VS.

Seems like there has been a significant move to the dark side.

Personally speaking, I haven't flown VS since February 2010 when I blew a bunch of miles to take three of us to LAS in UC.

However I have flown long haul ten or a dozen return trips since then, mostly on BA.

So why would this be?

Personally speaking, here are my own reasons:

O BA has an F product where the personal attention beats VS UC hands down.

O The continual cost cutting is so evident in UC that only the seat, the bar and the Clubhouses offer any benefit. The frills have disappeared - even the salt and pepper pots I read will be a thing of the past (cost benefit analysis on that one please - I am sure in purely tangible terms the bean counter who came up with that cost more than getting rid of condiment set).

O I get VS gold with my Amex Centurion (interestingly, the others I quizzed do too). Not that I gain any benefit from it other than a shiny card!

O increasingly I found the cabin crews on VS to make the UC experience more and more of a chore to endure, rather than an experience to look forward to and enjoy. Particularly when you're forking out serious money, like it or not, I expect pleasant service, in the same way I make a particular effort to be courteous to crew. I don't appreciate being barked at one bit, which happens all too often one second after the seat belt sign comes on for landing as an example.

I think in summary VS have already for some time been complacent about blindly going for least-common-denominator mediocrity when they could, instead, give me some reasons to want to go back.

Cheers, Howard

* edit, in fact hadn't flown since feb 10, originally I said feb 09, age is marching rapidly forward.

Hi Howard!

Destination.
We like SE Asia, so obviously go with SQ; whether in Y, C or F. Plus *G definitely seems a more useful card in my wallet than VS-Au ever did.

Me and the missus are in CPT, having flown out with VS yesterday, on G tickets.
Nothing negative to say at all. But nothing outstanding either.

Jim

Howard,

Price is also a factor. It isn't difficult to find better deals than those offered by VS on certain routes. On my upcoming Australian trip, VS were significantly more expensive than several other major airlines.

It's about price for me. The ability to upgrade a PE sale fare with miles to CW beats VS hands down.

LCY-JFK is the best way to travel to New York, the staff seem to really enjoy it and it shows. Also helps that I live near LCY I guess. Worth collecting miles just for this trip.

I do miss the onboard bar, as when travelling in CW I do miss having somewhere to go and just get away from the seat for a bit.

Lack of innovation. They just seem to follow everyone else now

Poor entertainment system on some planes. At least BA are giving out iPads to their First pax as they know their old system is so bad.

Price is certainly a major factor, here's just two examples I found recently;

MCO
UC £2200
CW £1550

HKG
UC £3400
CW £2650

I am a VS fan, however, with savings going into the hundreds of pounds I see no reason to stay loyal.

-Steve

Being a humble AG, I'm not sure my comments would carry the same wait as some folks on here, but here's my own, very subjective, view.

I tend to hold on to some sort of nostalgic view of VS - the times years ago when it was fun and quirky/different - I believe that single factor alone, encourages many to stay loyal to VS perhaps beyond it's worth.

Nowadays, with the exception of flights already booked/secured for later this year, I search BA as well as VS for flights - I never used to touch the BA site unless I wanted a route VS didn't serve.

Why? My pound is king - I want to reliably get the product I think I'm buying - simple as that.
VS seem to be becoming increasingly sporadic in their level of service, and I'm tired of it. At least with BA, most times you know what you are going to get, and you get it.

The other significant factor for me, is that if I'm going to buy in to a loyalty scheme (flying, credit card etce etc), I want to be able to access decent rewards. VS limited route network and limited availability are not factors to encourage me to stay "bought in". In addition, on BA for example, I get miles when my child travels, I get a household account plus a vastly wider route network and similar/improved miles earning potential.

Whilst I still love flying, it has become more of a commodity to me, and any semblance of brand loyalty has pretty much evaporated - not helped by some of my customer service interactions over the last year or so.

In summary, and speaking personally, VS have lost the differentiating factor, and I'm goiing to spend my money the cleverest and wisest way I can for most benefit to me going forward.

Just my thoughts...

[Darren Wheeler]

Never had a bad flight with VS as my trip reports show. Never been looked down on like I was something that crawled onto a plane from under a rock, like on my recent ams-lhr flight.

Cost is a difficult one to judge without knowing a bucket-to-bucket relationship.

Are more people giving BA serious consideration now that there seems to be more confidence in them?

Having spoken to people in the past, they'd had no issues booking flights with BA, but the fear of strike action always made them pick an alternative. (how much did VS benefit from this? Certainly on the B&S routes IMHO).

Now it seems things at BA have returned to normal, with a big campaign on service and very competitive pricing on some routes.

I like flying with VS and I am loyal (paying extra) but i'd like to see some innovation soon! (not of the aeromobile sort!).

I think in summary VS have already for some time been complacent about blindly going for least-common-denominator mediocrity when they could, instead, give me some reasons to want to go back.

Cheers, Howard

Hello Howard, and firstly, a revelation was to be recommended to us at Gordon Ramsey RHR on Friday, with the pudding wine, a Saki of all things: Shiraume Umeshu, Akashi-Tai Brewery (tasted of excellent Christmas pudding, and wonderful!).

So, wine tip aside I largely agree apart from two points below, over the years BA seems to have upped its game where VS has moved from leader to follower. It's not just red pillows, but on LHR flights (I don't take any from LGW) all of the changes in recent years have been cuts. I increasingly put this down to poor leadership of VS as SRB has moved further away from day-to-day involvement, without his charisma and focus on innovation and customer service, those in charge are now solely bean counters lacking in imagination (you have to be a bean counter, but it helps to have flair too). It's not only in the front line that these changes are evident, but also in the flexibility in other areas.

That said, I disagree in two areas: cabin crew I have been exceptionally lucky (or by virtue of high status get more attention) but I still think they're among the best out there. Secondly, and more a point of order, you can't really compare UC with BA F.

That said, I disagree in two areas: cabin crew I have been exceptionally lucky (or by virtue of high status get more attention) but I still think they're among the best out there.

I wouldn't say it was necessarily status; as a lowly Red, using miles, all our recent experiences have been been excellent in this respect. Perhaps just down to good looks and charm :w

For me it is price why I havn't flown VS

My last three paid for TATL trips have been on LX (twice) and DL (one). Decision to use those was based 100% on price with them being significantly cheaper than flying VS yet giving a high standard of service and excellent food.

If it had been a £100 difference I might have flown VS (the CH is a big draw). The AMS 'trick' did not work for my dates.

My last trip on VS was a o/w JFK-LHR using my FC miles.

Personally my on board flight experiences have been good - no major complaints though the odd niggle.

Cost is a difficult one to judge without knowing a bucket-to-bucket relationship.

Darren, with great respect, I am not sure I understand the bucket point.

When I was searching for my flights this week I got best available prices for my dates from a number of the airlines flying to or near Brisbane. And that information is what I based my buy decision upon. Which letter was printed on the ticket was of no relevance to me. And, for your interest, VS UC to SYD came out £1500 more expensive than Emirates Business to BNE.

And if the prices had been the same, who would I have chosen? I don't know, but a trip, whole journey or just part, on the A380 does have considerable appeal so I think it would have been between EK and QF. y)

Perhaps just down to good looks and charm :w

.

But of course Paul, that is what it must be. oo)

I would always fly VS unless there was a specific reason not to. Nowadays having experienced too many cuts and disappointing flights, I fight the urge to default and always check flight times, lounge access, transit options, miles options and price before booking.

Today I am looking for CW/UC LHR-MIA flights in April and VS is coming in significantly cheaper which has surprised me. I should be delighted, but it's not just the price. On a short holiday to the States you need the flight to go well. I rarely get a brilliant BA flight but they are consistently good. I want to go with VS but they are less reliable and whilst it is wonderful when it works, I get really upset when it doesn't. Apologies for the ramble!

I think the reasons given in the above posts give a clear signal that Virgin need to improve not cut their services if they want to retain their customer loyalty. It is clear that significant numbers of passengers feel the experience has been reduced to the point loyalty has gone. VS had a great product, but they need to produce more than "fun" advertisements to prove to me that 2012 will be any different.

Looks like we are all pretty much in agreement with the OP then doesn't it - lets hope someone from VS reads and inwardly digests the posts.
I have certainly gone over to the dark side for my next flight and look forward to checking out the difference then

One of the main reasons I used to have a VS preference over BA was that VS never went on strike and BA did. This leads to worry which is the last thing you want while looking forward to a well earned holiday.
Well last year removed that differential.
I wonder if VS really understand the damage they have caused themselves by this. You only have your first strike once. After that the damage is done. That legacy will sat a very long time.

Well for me, I used to always use BA, but I found the service in CW was deteriorating, with each flight I took. After a rather poor service on a flight to JFK, I decided to give VS a try as I'd heard such good reports. Took a flight to Cuba in UC ( my first) and loved it, so much so, last year, flew to JFK in UC and again the service was great, far better then I'd received fom BA. When thinking bout my trip to JFK this year, VS was my first choice, I'd only use BA if VS don't fly where I want to go.

[Darren Wheeler]

There's a similar thing on the VS facebook page at the moment after VS won

"Travel Weekly Reader’s Choice Award for ”Best International Airline,”"

I do laugh when people cite Skytrax as a reputable review site.

Personally I feel that if there is a move from VS to BA, one of the reasons is because of the uncertainly surrounding the refits on the Gatwick/Manchester route.

We have always used VS for our Easter break to Orlando but this year we've opted for BA. The reason at the time was purely cost but as as it has turned out I'm glad we changed to BA. We've paid a bit extra for booking an actual seat. I'm one of those folk who needs to have as much as possible organised in advance and the thought of not knowing until OLCI what the plane will be, let alone not being able to request my seat in advance, would cause some anxiety (I know it sounds silly but that's just me) ii)

I have not noticed any changes or deterioration in services provided on my recent VS flights. In September we got upgraded both ways on the LA flights even though we'd only paid the lowest sale fare price and we're lowly red fc members. Our economy flights to NYC in December were fine and on that Airbus A340-600 I've always thought upgrading to PE is not worth the large cash difference.

I prefer the BA club world or AA business class products, because I hate the isolation of VS Upper Class cabin. That is another reason why personally I think BA trumps VS.

[buns]

Howard

I can fully understand where you are coming from here.

I suspect that the ability to be Au on VS without having the need to step on VS Metal has not only altered the dynamics of how Frequent Flyers are perceived by Crew, but has also unwittingly served to devalue the product.

From a personal point of view, cost will now play a greater part in my choice and as others have already said, VS are not as competitive as they used to be. However, I do think that the VS PE product is currently ahead of BA, so it is likely that VS will continue to receive my Queen's shilling for the time being

buns

[mitchja]

Nothing has changed here. If anything I've flown VS more over the last 12 months.

I won't an don't consider any other airline. I really couldn't care less what other airlines charge.

I most certainly would not fly BA long-haul. Domestic is bad enough for me on BA :$

BA airport staff obviously have to undergo personality transplants before they can start work. This also includes jobs-worth training as well.

Message to BA LHR T5 check-in staff, if you don't like you job, bugger off and let someone else do it as there's a huge line waiting behind you, but DO NOT take it out on me.

VS for me every time without fail. VS are miles ahead in every respect both on the ground and in the air y)

Genuinely not trying to be contravercial, just making what I consider a valid point...

I wonder, is there a slight divergence in those that fly for business, and those that fly for leisure?

For example, if you fly regularly for business, and the company pays, the rewards are very positive - you get AU "easier" on VS, if you can get reward flights the redemption amounts are reasonable etc.

For me, paying out of my own pocket each and every time, it's very much about the consistency of product and perceived value.

As stated and evidenced many times, when VS get it right it's great; When it's not so good, it's average to poor and then becomes a price/reliability thing.

I guess those that are fortunate enough to be able to fly UC etc on their own money more often than I can, the equasion might be slightly different?

It's fair to say that my recent VS flights have been more positive than negative, but it's the negative ones that leave a bad taste and leave me regreting the day I chose to pay extra for PE/UC...

Horses for courses, you could say - but I really think the consistency issue is the biggest threat to VS loyalty and future business...

[honey lamb]

Interesting discussion. y)

First of all I have to say that in recent times I have not had a bad VS flight. There might have been some elements in one or two flights where things were not up to scratch such as a less than stellar Clubhouse experience on one occasion or a below par check-in experience but overall the experience was more than positive. However I must admit to beginning to have itchy feet. Others were beginning to use other airlines and reporting positively and to a certain extent the Clubhouse has lost its WOW! factor and I felt I should stretch my wings a bit (if you'll pardon the pun 8D )

Now I must say that my experience with long-haul prior to VS was one return flight to JNB on BA which was absolutely awful and one return flight, again to JNB on SAA which was OK. Since then it has been with VS rising through the ranks from Economy to PE and in latter years to UC. I've always managed to find a fare that was acceptable to me and on a par with other airlines or at times that suited me. Nonetheless I was delighted that in the past twelve months I travelled to areas not served by VS and so was ready to embrace new airlines without feeling that I was being a traitor. So how did I fare?

My first trip was with BA and as 25 years had elapsed since my first encounter with them, the slate had been wiped clean. So how was my second experience with them? I hated it! I hated the layout of CW. In the window seat I felt totally isolated from the rest of the world especially when things were handed over the divider and being in the aisle seat meant I was knocked at every hand's turn. The food was awful, the crew stand-offish and at one stage I was addressed as Mr honey lamb!! :0 My second foray with BA, albeit in Club Europe fared no better in that I was stupid enough to eat their breakfast and suffer the consequences for the rest of the day.

I relished my second long trip with SQ. After all they have been held as the gold standard of airlines down through the years. Well, what do you know - it was as good as, and no better than the better ones of my VS flights - well apart from the check-in in Singapore which was the worst I had ever experienced. What I did miss on that flight was the interaction with the crew. Oh they engaged with me, perhaps not in the same friendly way as the VS crew but at least I felt they were there to look after me in the way that BA did not.

So, I've learned that the grass isn't always greener. I shall not be joining the lemming-like rush over to BA but I shall view all of my options when looking at flights and especially ones to non-VS destinations and will consider price and times as part of the equation

Last flew VS Xmas 2010 because they were dirt cheap.

Recently flown BA and AA to the states.

Would only use VS if they were at least £50 cheaper per seat than BA/AA as we travel in a party of six.

I still remember the good old days like many have commented about in earlier posts.

I guess that's why I still lurk here looking for any signs of change

Concorde - I don't think that's a controversial point at all, and I definitely fall into the category you mention - lots of business travel, lots of accrued miles to use for Gs in my senior years, and the benefit of the CH on my occasional (self funded) family jaunts to the caribbean, Dubai etc, which helps take the edge off having to spend hours and hours in Y...

So yes, the model works for me, although if I wasn't generally happy with the service level and product, I'd switch, my company has a number of 'preferred' carriers, and it's generally easy to get either the VS/BA on my common routes.

... a revelation was to be recommended to us at Gordon Ramsey RHR on Friday, with the pudding wine, a Saki of all things: Shiraume Umeshu, Akashi-Tai Brewery (tasted of excellent Christmas pudding, and wonderful!).

....
Secondly, and more a point of order, you can't really compare UC with BA F.

You must PM me next time you are around RHR, I just moved around the corner a few months ago to Chelsea Embankment, a quick pre dinner drinky awaits.

Sorry, the post didn't read the way I meant it to about BA F. I was trying to say that the very fact BA has F for me is a reason to use BA over VS, rather than a direct comparison of the two products. (Alhtough I hasten to mention that this didn't stop VS advertising UC as "first class for a business class price" some years ago.)

Cheers, Howard