4x A346's to go by the end of the year

Are VS management being realistic and smart, or are they overly cautious and likely to get left behind?

...

With the apparent (yet to be truly and consistently delivered) upping of the stakes by BA (and others), is this a management team paralised by indecision?

I haven't seen a bold move by VS since SRB stepped down from any day to day involvement. I hope something comes, but at the moment if I look back at the last two years I've seen all talk and no action.

And yes, BA is moving forward, just announced increased frequencies to JFK, HKG, JNB, MIA, and MCO for example, together with new planes, new cabins, new IFE, etc. Then BA has a globally effective alliance with reciprocal FF earning just about anywhere - it looks compelling!

I think we'll see some expansion when the 787's start coming online but not by much. At the same time we'll start seeing some more of the A346 start leaving the fleet.

I believe the remaining two A343's are due to leave either 2013/2014 so if all 10x A333 come back into the fleet, they will have replaced all of the A343 and some or the A346's.

That would leave 15x A346 in use and what I think we will see is that the 787 will start to replace these (as there is a order for 15x 789 to begin arriving in 2014.)

I know VS get a lot of stick for their fleet choice and management but thinking a bit more about it, all the choices are logical and surprisingly well planned out!

If the A380 order comes off, it would be about the right time to retire some of the 744's to do some of the Mouse Shuttles from LGW/MAN/GLA!

RyanJW - agreed. However, as Slinky has so eloquently written, it seems the apparent indecision over the last few years has let BA and others get the jump of them in terms of fleet, routes, IFE, refits, alliances......

I think we'll see some expansion when the 787's start coming online but not by much. At the same time we'll start seeing some more of the A346 start leaving the fleet.

...

That would leave 15x A346 in use and what I think we will see is that the 787 will start to replace these (as there is a order for 15x 789 to begin arriving in 2014.)

I know VS get a lot of stick for their fleet choice and management but thinking a bit more about it, all the choices are logical and surprisingly well planned out!

If the A380 order comes off, it would be about the right time to retire some of the 744's to do some of the Mouse Shuttles from LGW/MAN/GLA!

It may sound like I am having to much of a dig, but logical and well planned out? Let me see of the last four aircraft orders:

- Order A346 then delay then cancel part of the order.
- Order A380s then delay to the point that no one thinks they're coming.
- Order 10 x A333s then lease out the first three to other airlines when delivered
- Order B787s, well at least in this case VS can't be blamed for the delay.

See a pattern?

Now we see B787s coming, and if they do replace A346s then that's further decline (fewer pax, less cargo).

I want to see growth, I can't yet but hope it's coming!

[Darren Wheeler]

Indecision maybe, but a lot of the delays to refits etc. have been down to cold, hard cost.

The price quoted for a 744 refit in 2007 was £3-5m each. Come 2008/9 there was the huge slowdown and VS made redundancies to stay afloat. VS has never been a cash-rich airline and unlike BA, don't have the reserves to keep going when times are hard. The ash cloud could have been a lot more damaging.

Sorry Slinky, I probably should have been more specific. I'm thinking in terms of general fleet replacement rather than orders, delays and cancelling plane orders. I do agree that perception is damaging but there are a load of factors that affect all of the listed A/C purchases and decisions.

For example the move away from 4 engines towards twin. I understand that cancelling or releasing your A346 options doesn't look good when you then use your deposit to buy 10x A333 smaller planes. But as Darren said, it's economics.

Was it economics to delay A333 orders last year, or was it a botch? There was no ash cloud, but there was a complete hash-up in new UCS planning :w .

My father used to say, once an accident, twice a coincident, three times something funny going on ...

The 787 will be able to do the A346's routes, and many others besides much more efficiently.

Seems like there could be some A333's on the JFK route later in the year. From Sept onwards both the VS003 and the 009 are showing as A343's, and if 2 of them are going i can't see the other 2 both going to JFK.

Seems like there could be some A333's on the JFK route later in the year. From Sept onwards both the VS003 and the 009 are showing as A343's, and if 2 of them are going i can't see the other 2 both going to JFK.

This was posted a while ago and may just be seasonal.

I think the 343s only burn about 6 tons of fuel per hour whereas the 346s burn 9 so hanging on to them isn't as silly as it seems.

I know the 346 total cargo capacity is less, but not sure how the actual weight that can be carried vs the other types compares, when weight of fuel and pax vs max weight is calculated.

The 346 is a very capable aircraft in terms of performance so can probably go stright to a higher altitude at high weights than the 333 or 343. It just burns too much fuleper pax.


The 346s aren't all going! some will survive until the 787s come I expect. 330s will also go to DEL in the summer I'm told.

The A333 that went to Ryan International (No relation ) might be coming back sooner than expected. ?|

http://www.wrex.com/story/16657172/ryan ... -employees

Any idea why the oldest (?) gal in town, Miss Kitty (Msn 376 - one of the original prototypes) is soldiering on when these younger birds get the boot? Lower mileage (she was in storage for a bit)? I only ask as she's about to fly me back from Sydney....

[honey lamb]

Any idea why the oldest (?) gal in town, Miss Kitty (Msn 376 - one of the original prototypes) is soldiering on when these younger birds get the boot? Lower mileage (she was in storage for a bit)? I only ask as she's about to fly me back from Sydney....

Miss Kitty is hardly the oldest gal in town. The 343s and 747s are older than her. Why, she is barely middle-aged compared with some of the others. FFS, I'm older than her. Come to that I'm older than anyone else here on the site. Such ageism!! v(

It's probably due to leasing arrangements. Hers was probably renewed while the others are coming up for renewal but someone will no doubt come along and tell you what is the reality and consign me to my dotage LOL! )

. Such ageism! )

:X I meant the oldest 346 - I should have been clearer! I suspect your thoughts about leasing arrangements are right - though googling G-VATL brought up more information about that aircraft on the HKG--LHR run than I would necessarily have wanted to read before boarding her! All fixed now, no doubt.....

:X I meant the oldest 346 - I should have been clearer! I suspect your thoughts about leasing arrangements are right - though googling G-VATL brought up more information about that aircraft on the HKG--LHR run than I would necessarily have wanted to read before boarding her! All fixed now, no doubt.....

It's odd in that the earliest A346s did not meet Airbus's weight / performance / fuel economy expectations and so, by report, Airbus compensated airlines for this - later A346's were much improved. Perhaps the Airbus rebate still applies so they are cheaper to operate even if more fuel hungry?

If you check out this page you'll see these are the oldest ac in the vs fleet and yes their withdrawal does seem to match their 10th anniversary so presumably their leases were not renewed. The earlier ac (age) were instrumented as test ac therefore were actually delivered later on once testing was completed.