New LGW Config

[Neil]

A big thumbs down from me, I love the bubble all PE and think its a bad move. If you think there are 40 seats PE at the moment, average return fare of say £800 each= £32,000. 20 PE seats sold = £16,000 + 30 Y seats at say 450= £13,500. A total in the new config of£29,500 against £32,000, doesn't make sense. I know there are plenty of variations such as VH booking, reward seats, plus tax payable etc, but in pure revenue terms, it doesn't add up.

Don't forget they will be increasing the number of W seats downstairs by having a cabin from doors L1 to L2, in a 2-4-2 config like they have on the LHR 747's.

Glad that I held off making my MCO bookings until hearing about the refit.

Now off to BA - it is not worth paying the premium for a VS that does not listen to its customers.

Has anyone been copying the comments from here onto the VS internal website? I feel sorry for the MAN/LGW crew who are going to take the flak.

Is there any confirmation that the current LGW/MAN 333s are not being fitted with J until 2013 at the earliest?

[Neil]

Glad that I held off making my MCO bookings until hearing about the refit.

Now off to BA - it is not worth paying the premium for a VS that does not listen to its customers.

While I don't think it is a great idea, I honestly don't get the whole 'I'm going to BA thing'.

On basic product alone, WT+ is far behind VS PE and it's not as though WT+ is exclusively on the upper deck on BA 747's. Even now, if VS was slightly more money, it still offers a far better W product and experience than BA, let alone when the new seats and IFE are installed after the refits.

The LHR 747's have half J, half Y currently, which is a massive gulf between classed, at least W and Y are more suited and closely matched in price.

Is there any confirmation that the current LGW/MAN 333s are not being fitted with J until 2013 at the earliest?

I might be wrong here, but I *thought* it was announced that when the A333 were refitted with the new UCS they would then be redeployed back to LHR, leaving the 747's and some A340's to operate ex LGW/MAN.

Neil

Reducing the number of available PE seats in the bubble may well be a deal breaker for me...

I've done 3 legs in PE downstairs and it's a different product and not one I'm prepared to pay a large premium for. In fact, my last PE trip (downstairs at back of PE LHR 747 PE cabin) was appalling, and if my chances of getting bubble seats is reduced.....

Very bad move, in my oppinion.

Not refitting UCS? Well, might make business snese in terms of pure economics, but reduces flett flexibgility.

Wonder if the J prices will reflect difference in product between LHR and LGW?

Extending PE cabin downstairs makes sense - PE take-up seems high, you'll often see half empty, third empty Y cabins with PE full up...but why then reduce the PE cabin in the bubble...don't get it.

So, overall, I'm not impressed.

Neil,
It is not a comparison between WT+ & PE - with the prices and choices available to many of us, it is a comparison between PE & Club. An UC/PE return is equivalent to Club/Club in costs particularly when considering regional connections.

While the current PE (bubble) is undoubtedly superior to WT+ that superiority goes down the drain when you consider the mid cabin PE on the 747 or the poke on the head by kids playing games on the 333. You don't even get the advantage of pre-requested seats with VS this year.

On J, we have put up with delays in LGW/MAN refurb. for long enough - we have seen deep cleans before. This is just a delay too far.

The mixed bubble approach has been a disaster - and even if it is restricted to VH that means the loss of one of VS's major advantages. This will be bad for both UC & PE.

And yes - "When" the 333s are fitted with UCS - they go to LHR.

VS are running the LGW/MAN fleet as a charter service but scheduled service costs. The best comparison of VS LGW/MAN flights is with TOM!

[Darren Wheeler]

Who says VS haven't been listening to their customers?

Perhaps they have said something along the lines of:

"We love the economy seats upstairs on the Heathrow flights. Can't we have them on the Gatwick ones too?"

Can't please all of the people all of the time.

[Neil]

Extending PE cabin downstairs makes sense - PE take-up seems high, you'll often see half empty, third empty Y cabins with PE full up...but why then reduce the PE cabin in the bubble...don't get it.

Because ultimately they are still gaining extra W seats on the new config.

By loosing 22 W seats from the bubble, and between 20 or 40 seats from the small Y cabin (some LGW have 20, some 40), they will will gain 36 extra W seats downstairs and 33 Y seats upstairs, resulting in more seats on the a/c overall.

[Neil]

Who says VS haven't been listening to their customers?

Perhaps they have said something along the lines of:

"We love the economy seats upstairs on the Heathrow flights. Can't we have them on the Gatwick ones too?"

Can't please all of the people all of the time.

That's an interesting point. We are all mainly looking at this from a PE pax POV, however there are probably more Y pax who are impressed with the new config.

A lot of noise over something that is a "maybe"...

Will VS likely confirm to the online critics(here and F'book) that MAN/LGW won't get the new UCS...I very much doubt it..

Pricing will be key....Do I fly from MAN (no decent VS lounge) and old product, or PE seat in horrible location.
Or connect to LGW and fly BA or head to LHR..

Sounds like VH are calling most of the Shots for VS's MAN/LGW work...

That's an interesting point. We are all mainly looking at this from a PE pax POV, however there are probably more Y pax who are impressed with the new config.

But Y doesn't bring in as much revenue.

Y pax can get a much better deal with Thomson (have a look at their cabins), VS have real competition there and cannot up the prices.

They use high cost cabins to subsidise on scheduled flights but cannot get away with this if they are running the LGW/MAN fleet as a (VH) charter.

As for PE being "split" upstairs - PE isn't *going* from upstairs - there will just be less seats (so a lower chance) to grab up there. Not impossible though...

My concern for that is VH already get half the PE allocation already, now they may well get all of it now...

Who says VS haven't been listening to their customers?

Given the historical examples of VS not listening to passengers, particularly in Upper - and lets be honest, there is an Upper class leaning from the majority of members - I imagine we're a little cynical towards any 'passenger driven' changes, and possibly don't look at them from a Y or W perspective.

On a different note, bit of a spat on VS Facebook brewing about this subject...quite amusing

Disappointed, but not surprised if this news is what actually happens. Not surprised because VS's attitude to LGW / MAN / GLA fliers seems to be secondary to LHR - even if those fliers are the same (a colleague who almost always flies from LHR was in LAS this week, his comments on the airplane were quite negative from up front) ...

I take it that LGW planes will never get the new UCS. I quite agree about splitting the bubble and have not met a single person who thinks it a good idea, including those who have travelled on a LHR 747 with split seating - however I guess that VS thinks keeping it all PE and extending downstairs is just to much.

It's great for the rest of the plane though, clean new cabins, great IFE, it'll hopefully reverse some of the negative comments in recent years.

which i am afraid I started !!!!!

here is my reasoning on the 'go to ba' comment.

Our home is 3 hours from MCO 1.45 from TPA and 1hr from RSW.

99% of my flights are in PE. i also never have checked bags.
My priorities for a flight are.
1.comfort
2.food and drink
3. speed of dismebarkation (in 79h/K i can be in my car at MCO within 15 mins)
4. IFE ( you can always carry your own)

PE gives me the comfort I need but there is no way the downstairs cabin is as good as the bubble. in fact i would just as rather pay less and sit in an EC exit row than downstairs. so i choose the LGW 747s to sit upstairs in peace and quiet. then i like to get off quicker. so now will the upstairs (if they can get them )PEs have to wait until all downstairs UC and PE and the bubble Ecs get off ? you could be behind 70-80 people -no ta.

so suddenly VS loses its advantage that makes me fly to MCo so I may as well look at landing nearer to home and go BA to TPA.

thats my way of looking at it , though of course going to JFK and down to RSW is an option but the connecting times arent great

which i am afraid I started !!!!!

here is my reasoning on the 'go to ba' comment.

Our home is 3 hours from MCO 1.45 from TPA and 1hr from RSW

RSW is quite a neat little airport, and much improved in recent years - great for heading over to Sanibel or Marco Island - without the faff of driving down Alligator Alley from MIA, which is arguably the most boring road in the world :p

I agree. however i struggle to find decent connection times from NYC. last time i went 'up' from RSW to JFK my JB flight got cancelled because of the snow in New York. and yes you are spot on about Ally Alley !!

I agree - connections from NYC arnt great; American Eagle seems to be the best in my opinion. The connection from MIA is terrible though - probably made all the worse by MIA being a rats nest of a place - I seem to recall a 5 hour layover once.

well just done a dummy booking for November...i can get BA WT+/WT+ for $900 less than VS PE/PE or $900 more for C/WT+

close call

[Neil]

here is my reasoning on the 'go to ba' comment.

All of which are valid reasons for you, but slightly biased by the fact you live closer to TPA, rather than just comparing the two products side by side.

If you have a 'Joe Blogs' pax who wants to fly PE to MCO for their two week holiday, VS, even without the exclusive upper deck for PE, still wins hands down over WT+.

Thanks Virgin for nothing!

If only I could take my money elsewhere, I would, but here in Manchester we are limited for a J product direct to Florida, also there is no CH or a decent lounge to use here. Hopefully in another couple of years and it might not seem too bad for the children to do flight transfers.

true but isnt this all about each individuals reason.....

just done a dummy on US air and I can get their new business class from RSW for the same as VS PE.!!!!!!!!

I don't mean to be controversial, but maybe the truth is one that we are not keen to acknowledge. Maybe the little v-fyer fan club for flying PE in the bubble is, from VS's perspective, just a small and relatively insignificant customer group?

After all, most people fly economy. Things probably look more exciting from that perspective as there is now a chance of an upstairs seat.

There's not been an announcement anywhere yet including internal forums so not sure this is definite?

What a load of moaning over something that isn't even confirmed. People moan about the current seats so they get their way, VS replace them and now they've found something else to moan about. As we've said many times, the current PE product is better than a industry standard PE. VS is fitting the seats that are standard out of LHR. For those of us who exclusively use the A340 there is no upper deck to even consider. Why not appreaciate the: new seat; new carpet; new IFE and then sit back and relax and if you are lucky enough to be on the upper deck appreciate the privilege rather than expect it as a right.