New Upper Class 'Dream Suite'

[Darren Wheeler]

Interesting that the article claimed that over 1200 'frequent flyers' were involved in workshops, sleepovers etc in designing the new product.

Anyone here want to own up to being part of this? I'd find it a bit odd if one or two of the stalwarts on these boards did not number among the 1200...

If any did, the chances are they all signed a long and comprehensive NDA agreeing not to discuss it on any forum or social media site. Contrary to what seem to be the norm these days, some people stick to them.

I am afraid I just find all of this let another example of how VS have gone from being a market leader to an also ran. With IAG becoming increasingly dominant, the threat of AF/KL/DL surely now would have been the time for VS to release a stonking J product that would make customers go "wow" and look attractive to potential airline partners. Sadly instead what we have is a bit of a damp squid that everyone can see the VS spin machine is trying to hype. How on earth this product will make any potential suitors (whether that be an alliance or an investor) interested in VS I do not know.

I'm genuinely quite surprised by what you say. To me the new cabin looks good and I hope I can try it before long. Re the IAG competition and wow factor -- seriously, if someone has only ever flown BA CW, I would guess that 'wow' will be a pretty typical reaction on seeing the UC cabin.

I think I understand what willd is talking about. Personally, I feel the 'old' UCS has spoilt me, and while the new UCS is an improvement, from all the VS marketing and their normall style, I was expecting much more, until about a yar ago when I realised it was only going to be an upgrade, not a totally new product.

I don't think many here are saying the new UCS is bad, but if they had the chance to update the UCS they would of added the other things they are saying are missing, or implemented things differently to make it 'even better'.

So yes while I moan about the new UCS, I still think it is (generally) an improvement on the 'old' suite.

The new UCDS is as others have posted simply an upgrade in model rather than re invention, proof will be in the pudding so looking forward to reading some reviews from fellow v-flyers. My only observations so far from the few pictures are that I don’t see any arm rests on either side of the seat so it’s back to propping up papers on ones knees, and the other is the position of the screen, looking at the base it does appear to have the incumbent swivel bracket, so let’s hope we don’t have to twist on the seat as the models have done in the PR poses!

The new UCDS is as others have posted simply an upgrade in model rather than re invention, proof will be in the pudding so looking forward to reading some reviews from fellow v-flyers. My only observations so far from the few pictures are that I don’t see any arm rests on either side of the seat so it’s back to propping up papers on ones knees, and the other is the position of the screen, looking at the base it does appear to have the incumbent swivel bracket, so let’s hope we don’t have to twist on the seat as the models have done in the PR poses!

There is a "flip down" arm rest on the tv side (wonder how long it takes for that to break?)
No arm rest the other side though

And yes the TV does swivel out.

Flip down will lead to flip off at some point I fear,especially when PAX use it as a push bar to change seating posture or get up. Thanks for confirming

Flip down will lead to flip off at some point I fear,especially when PAX use it as a push bar to change seating posture or get up. Thanks for confirming

Hopefully Virgin have pre-emptied it breaking and designed it accordingly not to.

Like the seat to bed motor and gears that failed often have now gone, just done manually now, push it over.

Do we know if the "do not cover" grille, cunningly located where your pillow goes, has gone?

What more would need to be added to make it a 'stonking' product?

For me, the only thing missing from the 'old' UCS was a decent recline in a seated position. I can't say what the 50% better recline they're quoting will actually mean, but it may be enough for me to sleep more comfortably as the lie flat bed always left me with painful shoulders.

I'm genuinely quite surprised by what you say. To me the new cabin looks good and I hope I can try it before long. Re the IAG competition and wow factor -- seriously, if someone has only ever flown BA CW, I would guess that 'wow' will be a pretty typical reaction on seeing the UC cabin.

As with most things in life there are lovers and haters of both the CW seat and vice verser with the UCS. I guess my main point was this, VS are going to face even more competition from IAG, anyone who does not believe it is not living in the real world. In a very short time Europe will be dominated by three airline groupings and the smaller players will be lost. VS is going to struggle- there is no two ways around it however one way to try and head this off would have been to release a truly innovative new J cabin, in much the same way that UCS was innovative when it was first released compared to the J2000. This would have attracted new customers and created a bit of a hype about VS again. Instead we have a new product that isn't really new and is only going to be released in drips and drabs over the next couple of years.

The other way to head this off is for the carrier to stop harping on about how unfair it is that BD has been sold to IAG and actually get on and make a plan to counteract this but that is slightly off topic.

Maybe it is a sign of how much things have dropped at VS when people are 'happy' with a couple of minor improvements in a product. Back in the good old days of VS this product launch would have been akin to what SQ did when it released its new business class product on the 77W and 380s or what NZ did with its new and much improved J seat.

I'm genuinely quite surprised by what you say. To me the new cabin looks good and I hope I can try it before long. Re the IAG competition and wow factor -- seriously, if someone has only ever flown BA CW, I would guess that 'wow' will be a pretty typical reaction on seeing the UC cabin.

As with most things in life there are lovers and haters of both the CW seat and vice verser with the UCS. I guess my main point was this, VS are going to face even more competition from IAG, anyone who does not believe it is not living in the real world. In a very short time Europe will be dominated by three airline groupings and the smaller players will be lost. VS is going to struggle- there is no two ways around it however one way to try and head this off would have been to release a truly innovative new J cabin, in much the same way that UCS was innovative when it was first released compared to the J2000. This would have attracted new customers and created a bit of a hype about VS again. Instead we have a new product that isn't really new and is only going to be released in drips and drabs over the next couple of years.

The other way to head this off is for the carrier to stop harping on about how unfair it is that BD has been sold to IAG and actually get on and make a plan to counteract this but that is slightly off topic.

Maybe it is a sign of how much things have dropped at VS when people are 'happy' with a couple of minor improvements in a product. Back in the good old days of VS this product launch would have been akin to what SQ did when it released its new business class product on the 77W and 380s or what NZ did with its new and much improved J seat.

In fairness, I'm happy with the new suite because it's an improvement on something I was already very happy with.

Back in the good old days of VS this product launch would have been akin to what SQ did when it released its new business class product on the 77W and 380s or what NZ did with its new and much improved J seat.

World standards have come so far in the last 5 years and I'm not sure there is much more the airlines can do to Business Class without reducing seat counts, reducing profits or constantly having to refit because yet another airline has introduced some sort of technical advancement.

SQ launched its new Business Class seat, sure it looked great however search the net http://www.flatseats.com/Reviews/sq-f.htm and you will find numerous reports about the seat being so wide that it is very hard to get comfortable, so much so that SQ introduced a square cushioned block to make the seat narrower.

As far as NZ is concerned, NZ's "improved" seat, which lets face it is a Virgin patented design may indeed have a softer mattress than the 1st generation, but it looks EXACTLY the same apart from the colour pallet used. The VS DreamSuite looks like a leap further than what NZ took with what you call a "new and much improved J seat" yet your opinion of it seems to be very negative.

Sometimes a 2nd generation/evolution of an already very good product is actually better than a complete redesign from scratch.

Lets all give it a try, people can be so quick to comment on products that they have never even tried for themselves. There is not even one trip report to my knowledge that we can base any negative preconceptions on regarding the new Dream Suite.

I'm sure we could find some issues with it in the long run, but show me a photo of a perfect Business Class seat (in your opinion) and I will tell you what I don't like about it. The perfect seat does not exist because we are a fussy species and you can never please all 7Billion of us.

Interesting that the article claimed that over 1200 'frequent flyers' were involved in workshops, sleepovers etc in designing the new product.

Anyone here want to own up to being part of this? I'd find it a bit odd if one or two of the stalwarts on these boards did not number among the 1200...

I was not even asked to fill in a questionair !
Perhaps it was frequent flyers from other airlines - that would have been a smart move.

Having spent many years in at the back I am delighted with the current UC seat so the new one will easily satisfy me.

Having had a good look at the website etc, I think the UCDS looks like an overall refresh of the product which addresses some of the fundamental issues (recline, softer mattress etc). It remains to be seen whether it's narrower across the shoulders, so I won't pass judgment until it's confirmed either way.

However... the thing that disappoints me, and will disappoint plenty of customers is the unbelievably slow roll out. You only have to look at the VS Facebook page to see that people are already asking "will I get the new cabin on my flight".

Looking at LHR alone, if the A340's and 747's aren't going to get UCDS, with the 787's and remaining 330's arriving by the end of 2014 I'd expect it will be at least 2 1/2 years from now until the product is available on 100% of LHR flights. When you compare this to the BA roll-out of New First on a much larger fleet, this is very poor.

At LGW, unless I'm very much mistaken, it seems that the UCDS won't arrive until the end of the decade when the 747 leases expire.

The one missing link in amongst this is when/if the A380's arrive.

This is one of the reasons a big fan fare is not a good idea to announce it.
United made a big fuss about their new lie flat beds and I kept expecting them but it was 2 years before I actually got to use one so I ended up being dissapointed with each flight rather than unexpectedly finding a new seat and being delighted.

Back in the good old days of VS this product launch would have been akin to what SQ did when it released its new business class product on the 77W and 380s or what NZ did with its new and much improved J seat.

Lets all give it a try, people can be so quick to comment on products that they have never even tried for themselves. There is not even one trip report to my knowledge that we can base any negative preconceptions on regarding the new Dream Suite.

I don't see the harm in making any comment about a product, based only on what the company has provided. Also by your logic of no trip reports, how can you say anything positive about it?

I'm surprised at the decision to not refit the a346 fleet if they're staying for a few more years (not the new ife but just the new suite) surely with the smaller footprint they'd be able to bump the uc capacity up by at least ten seats? Surely would help to recover the costs assuming they could fill them!

I don't see the harm in making any comment about a product, based only on what the company has provided. Also by your logic of no trip reports, how can you say anything positive about it?

Fair point, but I guess my logic is that I love the Upper Class Suite, the Dream Suite looks great, I hope it's better and I'm not going to assume that is a bad product without having tried it first.

I don't see the harm in making any comment about a product, based only on what the company has provided. Also by your logic of no trip reports, how can you say anything positive about it?

Fair point, but I guess my logic is that I love the Upper Class Suite, the Dream Suite looks great, I hope it's better and I'm not going to assume that is a bad product without having tried it first.

[quote="Hamster"]

I am not saying its a bad product and certainly wouldn't comment as if I have tried it when I clearly have not.

I am saying its a disappointment that it is essentially nothing really new. I am also saying its a disappointment as VS would have in the past offered something truly great with each seat renewal. Perhaps my disappointment is because in the past VS have set the bar so high with product launches.

I guess my disappointment is also drawn out of the fact that, taking my rose tinted VS glasses off, other carriers are getting stronger and stronger and I don't see what VS are doing to combat this. Offering a truly world class product is a way to combat some of the challenge in much the way NZ have done to combat the likes of EK.

I am saying its a disappointment that it is essentially nothing really new. I am also saying its a disappointment as VS would have in the past offered something truly great with each seat renewal. Perhaps my disappointment is because in the past VS have set the bar so high with product launches.

I guess my disappointment is also drawn out of the fact that, taking my rose tinted VS glasses off, other carriers are getting stronger and stronger and I don't see what VS are doing to combat this.

I think I can relate to this angle of thinking a lot more. But I think the issue for Virgin is that we are in a very different world now than when the Upper Class suite was launched. The cost of fuel and the state of the economy is killing airline profits around the world. They have to consider using every inch of floor space to maximum revenue potential.
Another important point is where else is left to go with J Class? J Class has gotten so good that it is killing off First Class, are we likely to be surprised by any future J offerings? In 10 years time will we be expecting sliding doors on every seat, we already have fully flat beds, every seat has aisle access and we have an onboard bar.

Offering a truly world class product is a way to combat some of the challenge in much the way NZ have done to combat the likes of EK.

Have NZ released another J product different from our current UCS cause I have done a search and can't find anything other than the black and white suite that is on the 77W?

So just how quickly will VA roll this out? It seems a shame not to be this out quickly across the fleet, just flew with Korean Air, Seoul to Frankfurt on their new A380 in prestige class, mightily impressive! And that's saying something!

The idea that designers spent four years creating 'nothing new' is hilarious.

I guess the main question is why do you need to completely reinvent a seat when you've already got one that people love so much? Enhancing it, and redeveloping certain aspects of it seems to be far more sensible. After all, isn't that what Apple does with iPad or iPhone. They never completely change it. They have respect for their original design and just make it better.

You talk about how impressive the new Air New Zealand seat, which is exactly the same as the original Upper Class Suite or they'd be breaking their patent agreement with Virgin Atlantic. The only difference is they've added a more padded top sheet, which VS have negated the need for with their new comfort system. The NZ top sheet is not an environmentally friendly design, as it's heavy and costs more to fly.

Whilst I'm a little disappointed I still think it looks great. Virgin are victims of their own marketing and so you always expect them to go that extra mile and do something new.

For me it is a shame the rollout is so slow. I can understand the NY route is priority but this will benefit the longer route customers the most and it seems they won't be seeing it anytime soon. Fingers crossed for LAX soon!

Did Virgin ever give an answer to Paul's question on FB about shoulder width of bed on new seat? I can't seem to find the post? Thanks

[Neil]

Did Virgin ever give an answer to Paul's question on FB about shoulder width of bed on new seat? I can't seem to find the post? Thanks

No answer yet, Howard last replied on Wed saying he was still awaiting an answer on that and the lack of pens in UC. The post is still on the VS FB page, just checked.

Did Virgin ever give an answer to Paul's question on FB about shoulder width of bed on new seat? I can't seem to find the post? Thanks

No answer yet, Howard last replied on Wed saying he was still awaiting an answer on that and the lack of pens in UC. The post is still on the VS FB page, just checked.

Thanks Neil, can see it now! Must of scrolled over it earlier