Getting an upgrade -- buying extra legroom helps or hinders?

Does getting or not getting an extra legroom seat affect your
chances of getting an upgrade from economy, if you're Au?

On the one hand, you're Au and you've paid something extra,
so if they pick anyone they really should pick you.

On the other hand, they might be worried that you'd moan
that you'd paid for extra legroom and there wasn't extra
legroom in the PE seats (let's assume they never upgrade
anyone to UC!), or something like that, so just prefer to
play it safe and not offer.

On the third hand, if you did nothing, maybe they might be
more likely to take pity on the poor Au passenger in a no
extra legroom seat and offer an upgrade.

On the fourth hand (maybe just the left leg), it might
be that it makes no difference and it's just up to the
computer/the FSM.

(I was recently upgraded to PE on a flight back from Tokyo,
for no apparent reason. I had not got an extra legroom
seat. It is my experience, in general, that my best
chance of getting some kind of Au perk is indeed on the
NRT-LHR flights (in that direction).)

Any ideas?

Mark

P.S.: Does travelling with a (work) friend hinder your chances
too, on the basis that they wouldn't want to offer you
an upgrade in case you then tried to wheedle for an
upgrade for your friend too?

[buns]

As an Au myself (well, for the time being that is ) I never buy an airline tickect expecting an operational upgrade. In the 4 years i have been Au, I have had an upgrade twice and never on board.

I once travelled back from EWR and had the foresight to buy an exit row seat at the outset on the basis that I might not get a miles upgrade. Good investment as the plane was rammed

So to answer your question, if your choice is to buy an economy ticket and you need the leg room, then pay the extra rather than hoping for an operational upgrade which does not materialise

buns

It is a lot easier to upgrade a single traveller than couples, tripples etc who will generally want to travel together (that's not to say it dosent happen)

They basically want a bum out of one cabin into the next to they can then move another bum into yout seat. A single traveller is far more likely to just accept an upgrade* whereas a couple are more then likely to want to sit together and that might lead to having to move other people about to accommodate them which takes time.

* At IAD I was queuing at the gate the chap infront of me was offered an op-up on UA into business turn it down because they wouldn't give him a window seat and the seat they were putting him in was in the middle set of 3. Guess who got that seat

[honey lamb]

Remember also that VS will only upgrade if they need to because everyone has turned up for an oversold cabin. They won't give an op-up just because there is space available in the higher cabin.

Remember also that VS will only upgrade if they need to because everyone has turned up for an oversold cabin. They won't give an op-up just because there is space available in the higher cabin.

Nor, if my experience flying to Chicago a few years ago is anything to go by, will they necessarily offer "reasonable" upgrade terms. Spying on the manifest at the CH that fewer than 10 UC seats were occupied, I asked about the price of an upgrade using miles. "£1500 each plus miles" came the reply. Granted I was on a cheap PE ticket with restrictions (hence presumably steps to upgradeable fare etc...) but they clearly didn't feel the need to flog the seats at a bargain basement price...

Thanks for all the comments.

Just to be clear: I'm not travelling as a couple,
and if I'm offered an upgrade I'm more than happy to
leave my work colleague stranded in cattle class!

I'm also not expecting an upgrade, just wondering
what might increase or decrease my chance of getting
one.

Finally, I don't desperately need more legroom (I
appear to be 3 cm below average UK height, per
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height ) but
anything which gives me a better chance to actually
get some sleep would be great.

Remember also that VS will only upgrade if they need to because everyone has turned up for an oversold cabin. They won't give an op-up just because there is space available in the higher cabin.

Hm, not my experience.

About a month ago, I was travelling NRT-LHR in economy.
Economy was quite full but not totally full. I was
happily sitting in my window seat after take-off enjoying
the champagne when the FSM said I could move to another
seat with an empty space next to it if I wanted. I was
OK in my window seat, and I think the other seat was not
a window seat, so I just stayed put.

She then came and asked again, and I explained why I
wasn't interested, thank you, and said ah, I can get you
a window seat. So I got up, and she asked me to go
forward in the cabin, and we got to the front of the
economy cabin and there weren't any free window seats,
so I was getting ready to explain she had not understood
and ask to go back to my original seat, when she asked
me to continue through the curtains!

I then discovered PE was literally almost empty (maybe
only one or possibly two other passengers?). I did
enjoy my little perk, though per Sod's law it was not
in the direction in which I would want to try to sleep!

Mark

Hm, not my experience.

Maybe you got lucky, but more likely there was a reason for asking you to move and that could include another couple or family asking to be sat together, and the FSM took the initiative and offered you a leg up to PE to make space.

General advice is that VS rarely upgrade, do so generally for operational reasons, and it should not be expected. That's right to me.

Hm, not my experience.

Maybe you got lucky, but more likely there was a reason for asking you to move and that could include another couple or family asking to be sat together, and the FSM took the initiative and offered you a leg up to PE to make space.

I doubt this was the case as I was vacating a seat which was not next to an unoccupied seat.

But it is my experience that you're much more likely to get the special treatment on flights where the FSM is Japanese. I think this ties in with the fact that the customer really is king in Japan -- the standards of customer service in Japan are simply leagues ahead of those in Europe and America.

General advice is that VS rarely upgrade, do so generally for operational reasons, and it should not be expected. That's right to me.

That does seem to be my understanding, too. American airlines seem to be much better in this particular regard.

Anyway, I'll just get an extra legroom seat (my company is prepared to pay for these) and just hope I'm lucky.

Mark

General advice is that VS rarely upgrade, do so generally for operational reasons, and it should not be expected. That's right to me.

That does seem to be my understanding, too. American airlines seem to be much better in this particular regard.

Or worse (depending on your point of view of course). Read some of the threads for AA and DL for example on flyertalk and you will soon see the sense of entitlement and 'ownership' of a seat in an upgraded cabin simply because the US airlines seem to throw upgrades around (especially domestically) like confetti

"why didn't I get an upgrade when I'm a mega million flyer?"

"why did X get an upgrade when I didn't?"

and even

"did they really sell MY 1st class upgrade seat to a reall FC pax?"

My tuppence worth....

I have been Au for a number of years now.
I have only even been upgrade from PE to UC twice, granted my PE flights are a less.
It may coincidence but both of those times I had a full fare PE ticket.
I have seen people in front of me have the boarding gate ticket machine buzz and the light go red and the boarding staff smile and scribble sometime on the ticket. The pax then beaming ear to ear goes walking off to board the plane.

I was told once that these operational upgrades are done via status. I do wonder if ticket cost / type does also have a factor. Would be good to find out.

Just as an FYI - the one thing I never bank on is an upgrade. Hopes would be dashed!!

Or worse (depending on your point of view of course)

Agreed, IMO much worse ... and it's got to the point that it devalues flying in US carriers in premium cabins, and that effects the service.

I was told once that these operational upgrades are done via status. I do wonder if ticket cost / type does also have a factor. Would be good to find out.

It's generally accepted that if VS has to upgrade, AND the gate agents or whoever take the time to look, then it goes something like this (from PE):

Au's on W fares first
Au's on S fares second
etc.

Mr P once did a full analysis of this ...

However, as said, that is if the VS agents look at the manifest properly.

i was travelling lhr-mia a few of years ago in pe, when i got to the gate i was asked for my boarding pass, i was then handed a new uc boarding pass, fantastic i thought, settled in to my uc seat and could'nt believe my luck, during the flight i wandered back through pe and to my amazement there were empty seats !
i was travelling alone, but i still dont know why i was upgraded to this day, i never requested an upgrade at any time, also i was flying club red at that time.
anybody throw any light on this as it has baffled me ever since.

we have been lucky enough to be upgraded a few times,told if there is 2 of you and smartly dressed you could get upgraded

we have been lucky enough to be upgraded a few times,told if there is 2 of you and smartly dressed you could get upgraded

I say in jest, but 'smartly dressed' may have applied on BA in 1982, it's no factor now.

I think that how you are dressed can be very important. About 2 years ago, I was flying back from BKK on an Emirates A380 in economy with my wife and daughter aged 16. We were having a good laugh with the check in agent in Bangkok, and I cheekily asked for an upgrade.. She said she would find us good seats..and then she got on the telephone. But she did actually stand up and gave us the once over.. Got to the gate red light came on...all three of us went upstairs in business. Emirates A380 Business class .... Amazing

So, as expected, we didn't get an upgrade. But we did end up on the top deck with an empty seat between us, even though the flight was pretty full -- which I'll generously ascribe to my Au status rather than just luck!

I must say this is the first time I've managed to sleep so long (maybe 4 hours?) on a plane, at least when not able to lie down, so I'm now rather enamoured of exit row seats -- worth the GBP 50 in overnight flights, I think!

BTW, this was my first time in the EWR (Newark) lounge. I found it well-furnished, but I found the absence of any windows a bit oppressive. There's no shower. The food was canteen-style but quite nice; the pumpkin cheesecake was great! But the orange juice was appalling (tasted like some kind of watered-down Tesco Value stuff). No smoothies or anything like that either.

Mark

P.S.: Is it frowned upon to lie on the floor in front of (your) exit row seat in the plane, assuming the seat-belts sign is not on?

P.S.: Is it frowned upon to lie on the floor in front of (your) exit row seat in the plane, assuming the seat-belts sign is not on?

For the safety of yourself, other customers and the crew, lying on the floor is strictly not allowed regardless of the seatbelt sign being on or off. Anyone found on the floor would be asked to return to their seat, other than when a customer is incapacitated due to medical reasons e.g fainted e.t.c.

P.S.: Is it frowned upon to lie on the floor in front of (your) exit row seat in the plane, assuming the seat-belts sign is not on?

For the safety of yourself, other customers and the crew, lying on the floor is strictly not allowed regardless of the seatbelt sign being on or off. Anyone found on the floor would be asked to return to their seat, other than when a customer is incapacitated due to medical reasons e.g fainted e.t.c.

I saw a man sleep that way the entire way back from the US to Manchester a few years ago. He used the seat as a pillow and lay on the floor. No one stopped him.

P.S.: Is it frowned upon to lie on the floor in front of (your) exit row seat in the plane, assuming the seat-belts sign is not on?

For the safety of yourself, other customers and the crew, lying on the floor is strictly not allowed regardless of the seatbelt sign being on or off.

OK, in what way exactly is this a safety hazard? Or is this yet another example of Elfin safety being used as an excuse?

(Perhaps I should add a condition, just in case, that this is the window seat, i.e. there are no arguments about someone in the window seat tripping over you as they try to get to/from the aisle.)

Anyone found on the floor would be asked to return to their seat, other than when a customer is incapacitated due to medical reasons e.g fainted e.t.c.

Mark

P.S.: Is it frowned upon to lie on the floor in front of (your) exit row seat in the plane, assuming the seat-belts sign is not on?

For the safety of yourself, other customers and the crew, lying on the floor is strictly not allowed regardless of the seatbelt sign being on or off.

OK, in what way exactly is this a safety hazard? Or is this yet another example of Elfin safety being used as an excuse?

(Perhaps I should add a condition, just in case, that this is the window seat, i.e. there are no arguments about someone in the window seat tripping over you as they try to get to/from the aisle.)

Anyone found on the floor would be asked to return to their seat, other than when a customer is incapacitated due to medical reasons e.g fainted e.t.c.

Mark

I could understand the argument that if a person were blocking access to an emergency exit, that would be grounds for getting them to move, but other than that, if the seatbelt sign isn't on, not sure I get why lying on the floor would be an issue... my 6 year old slept under our seats the whole way back from BGI (luckily we had the extra legroom ones). No turbulence the whole way and she wasn't obstructing anything...

if she was sleeping under your seats then she would be safe from runnay trollies and people walking around and posibly standing on her (I hope she was wrapped in a blanket would hate to think what the floor is like!) which is not the same situation at the exit space.

Other airlines I have been on also don't allow it. Whether it is a strict H&S rule I don't know but it is the airlines space and they can say what happens in it. Some use it to store drinks and other trollies for example.

Well laying on the floor unsecured, you could be flying around the cabin if there were any major turbulence. I can see situations where you could get walked on as people aren't expecting anyone on the floor. Also it is always best to keep your seatbelt on at all times (as per Aloha 243).

Well laying on the floor unsecured, you could be flying around the cabin if there were any major turbulence.

Same is true if you're sitting in your seat unsecured, so that argument doesn't wash.

I can see situations where you could get walked on as people aren't expecting anyone on the floor.

I'm a bit sceptical of this argument, especially as regards the window exit seat. You could just as well say that lying across seats should not be allowed because you could get sat on, or dozing off in an aisle seat shouldn't be allowed because someone might knock your head it lolls to the aisle side!

Also it is always best to keep your seatbelt on at all times (as per Aloha 243).

Maybe, but it's not required.

Nope, it all smells like arbitrary air travel BS to me!

Mark

Well laying on the floor unsecured, you could be flying around the cabin if there were any major turbulence.

Same is true if you're sitting in your seat unsecured, so that argument doesn't wash.

I can see situations where you could get walked on as people aren't expecting anyone on the floor.

I'm a bit sceptical of this argument, especially as regards the window exit seat. You could just as well say that lying across seats should not be allowed because you could get sat on, or dozing off in an aisle seat shouldn't be allowed because someone might knock your head it lolls to the aisle side!

Also it is always best to keep your seatbelt on at all times (as per Aloha 243).

Maybe, but it's not required.

Nope, it all smells like arbitrary air travel BS to me!

Mark

Or alternatively a way of making it clear not to resort to law when you hit the ceiling / someone treads on you.

Maybe, but it's not required.

Nope, it all smells like arbitrary air travel BS to me!

Mark

If you are on a VS plane you follow their rules.

Just as visitors to your home follow your rules and when you visit someone elses home you follow their rules.

It dosen't matter how ridiculous you think the rules are you follow them.