Virgin Delays ex LGW on 01/06?

Just to be clear about LHR at least, ATC control movements to schedules, nothing to do with how much clout an airline has.

I would like to know if VS is genuinely worse than average, or even worse than its key competitors. This is a rhetorical question because I don't suppose anyone here has access to that data.

Well I know you said rhetorical... but! Flightstats does collect on-time performance data. So maybe have a look at Virgin Atlantic and British Airways. Personally I don't think VS can be compared to BA as a whole, be better to look at individual flight comparisons like for like (you can do that too by looking up the flight)

[honey lamb]

Taking out whatever happened today, which if it was to do with the new caterers was hopefully a once-off glitch, I have looked over the ex-LGW flights for March, April and May of this year. During that time there were no ash clouds or extreme weather conditions as far as I recall to thwart travel plans so therefore we are talking about reasonably normal travel patterns. The information is a direct feed from Virgin Atlantic and thanks to the genius that is Pete, departures and arrivals are colour-coded - green for a departure/arrival which is either early or within 15 minutes of scheduled departure time; amber for a departure/arrival between 15-45 minutes late and red for any departure/arrival after that.

So what did I find? Well for starters the pages were awash with green with a few ambers here and there and about 4-5 red departures and arrivals per month. What was interesting was that a few red departures had green arrivals and there was one green departure with a red arrival (which was so far from the scheduled arrival time as to suggest a diversion) Most amber departures had green arrivals and a couple of green departures had amber arrivals. In other words, a fairly normal pattern of an airline which is probably replicated throughout every airline in the world

So are you saying if the flight leaves the gate on time but stands on the runway for a hour it is not a delayed flight

You may be surprised to know that this is quite common in the US where flights push back on time and then go into what's known as the "penalty box" for whatever reason. On the DOT's statistics this is classified as an on-time flight.

Airlines do pad their schedules to accommodate airfield operations. Just think about the VS46 which can spend over an hour waiting for take-off in JFK and yet arrives on time in LHR. Even the best laid plans can be over-ridden by airfield operations. Her Majesty the Queen was scheduled to leave Cork after her state visit last year at a time between banks of flights arriving and departing to ensure a smooth departure. The airport was deserted apart from the Aer Lingus flight scheduled to leave some 30 minutes later. So what happened? Her plane taxied and then had to wait for a Ryanair flight from Liverpool to land. O the ignominy! )

Am I correct in thinking that assuming everything is running like clockwork at LHR, ALL flights should actually leave the ground 20 minutes after pushback from stand.

T5 seems closer to the take off point, so is average time for BA flights significantly less, which in turn, given a lot of flights must amount to a fuel saving??

Am I correct in thinking that assuming everything is running like clockwork at LHR, ALL flights should actually leave the ground 20 minutes after pushback from stand.

T5 seems closer to the take off point, so is average time for BA flights significantly less, which in turn, given a lot of flights must amount to a fuel saving??

I might be wrong, but most flights take off in a westerly direction, away from London due to noise issues, so T5 is the other end of the runway?

[honey lamb]

Also don't forget sometimes a/c leave late on purpose.if the light time is due to be significantly than expected, and it will mean an arrival when there could be restrictions in place, they might hold the departure to ensure there are no problems on arrival.

This is certainly true of airlines due in to LHR in the early morning where weather conditions are so favourable that they would arrive well before the early morning curfew. It is probably more experienced in short-haul flights. On many occasions I have been on an Aer Lingus flight from Cork with the doors shut ready for an on-time departure only to have the captain come on the radio to say that we have been held back by ATC in LHR because of congestion or poor weather conditions. This is the reason I now fly over the day before if I have a morning onward flight from LHR

Am I correct in thinking that assuming everything is running like clockwork at LHR, ALL flights should actually leave the ground 20 minutes after pushback from stand.

T5 seems closer to the take off point, so is average time for BA flights significantly less, which in turn, given a lot of flights must amount to a fuel saving??

I might be wrong, but most flights take off in a westerly direction, away from London due to noise issues, so T5 is the other end of the runway?

On the last couple of ocassions I was at LHR from 10.00 until mid afternoon, everything took off from the T5 end, aslthough I know they do change direction for noise abatement. Maybe BA have short take of times in the morning. and longe than average pm, ehen they have to taxi to the other end??

I flew with my family to MCO on Wed and I have to say we seemed to get priority over other aircraft that were waiting to take off

Of course what some people may be seeing as one airline being given 'priority' over another may just be how the take off slots are handled.

It makes sense to group aircraft of the same type together to maximise efficiency as some aircraft need a bigger gap before they can take off than others because of wake turbulance.

You might need a gap of say 2 minutes between 747s taking off once after each other but you may need 3 mins before you can allow an A330 to follow a 747 but only a gap of 1 minute if the next plane is another A330 or 747

Of course I am guessing at the actual gaps but I hope you get my drift.

On the last couple of ocassions I was at LHR from 10.00 until mid afternoon, everything took off from the T5 end, aslthough I know they do change direction for noise abatement. Maybe BA have short take of times in the morning. and longe than average pm, ehen they have to taxi to the other end??

I might be wrong, but most flights take off in a westerly direction, away from London due to noise issues, so T5 is the other end of the runway?

Nothing to do with noise abatement, it's the prevailing wind direction that determines whether take-offs are on the 9s or the 27s (with the caveat that is the Cranford Agreement).

Nothing to do with noise abatement, it's the prevailing wind direction that determines whether take-offs are on the 9s or the 27s (with the caveat that is the Cranford Agreement).

Yes mainly to do with wind direction, but not the only reason, noise does play a factor. Prevailing winds at heathrow are south-westerly, so flights take off to the west 70-80% of the time. They started preferring flights to take off to the west in the 1960s to reduce the number of flights taking off over highly populated London.

Yes Cranford Agreement prevents the northern runway from being used for take off towards the east, unless vitally necessary or with special permission for operational requirements.

On the last couple of ocassions I was at LHR from 10.00 until mid afternoon, everything took off from the T5 end, aslthough I know they do change direction for noise abatement. Maybe BA have short take of times in the morning. and longe than average pm, ehen they have to taxi to the other end??

I might be wrong, but most flights take off in a westerly direction, away from London due to noise issues, so T5 is the other end of the runway?

Nothing to do with noise abatement, it's the prevailing wind direction that determines whether take-offs are on the 9s or the 27s (with the caveat that is the Cranford Agreement).

They swap the runways over at 15:00 every day, although they still land/takeoff in the same direction - unless there operating to the East, then everything stays the same throughout the day.

whats going on at Gatwick today
all the VS flights are delayed by over an hour ?|

This thread was originally about LGW and on looking at the VS status page there are four delayed flights (in excess of one hour) again today) These are delays long before push back and again there will be several hundred disgruntled flyers, who don't rally care whether Virgin has changed its caterers or something else. The majority I would suggest are on there annual holiday and expect to take off (or push back as I believe most people perceive this as leaving and the last time the airline can control the trimmings) on time. The salient point out of this is the bad reviews that VS will undoubtedly receive on various forums from the majority who are not frequent flyers.

whats going on at Gatwick today
all the VS flights are delayed by over an hour ?|

This thread was originally about LGW and on looking at the VS status page there are four delayed flights (in excess of one hour) again today) These are delays long before push back and again there will be several hundred disgruntled flyers, who don't rally care whether Virgin has changed its caterers or something else. The majority I would suggest are on there annual holiday and expect to take off (or push back as I believe most people perceive this as leaving and the last time the airline can control the trimmings) on time. The salient point out of this is the bad reviews that VS will undoubtedly receive on various forums from the majority who are not frequent flyers.

Yes second day running by all accounts.

My son and family are sitting patiently (not) at Gatwick waiting for VS27 to depart. They are currently announcing a delay of 2hours. The VS 15 is also delayed. Apparently there are lots of very disgruntled holiday makers.
Our family have been on their way since 4am and with two excited little kids, they delay is causing some grief. Apparently the departure lounge is absolutely packed out because the Las Vegas flight is also delayed n(

Hi everyone. I was on the flight to St Lucia yesterday. On thr board in the UC lounge All flights were delayed by aroun 2-3 hours. I am a regular flyer on this route and it is unusual for this to happen. Several ground staff and crew told me that it was the first day of a new catering company and this was also repeated by the cabin crew who were very apologetic. I was lucky to be in the UC lounge, the main airport was very busy. Flight was good. Food was interesting and no icecream. When a fellow passenger asked she was told catering mixup and no icecream had been loaded. In economy there were a lot of unhappy people. The crew were great and tried there best but ine got the impression they were very fedup. The Captain even apologised publicly for the catering issues and promised that Virgin Exec were aware and things would be sorted on the return flight.....

A quick look at the LGW departures page shows a lot of flights, across all carriers, delayed by 40 minutes or more.

Unless the delay is caused by ATC it doesn't matter to those passengers that other airlines are performing as badly. The VS problem was flagged up early so I suspect it may have been a knock from yesterday's problems which were unexcusabled. Somebody within VS contracted the new caterers and there should have been robust managerial supervision of the implementation of the new contract. I speak from the experience of building a service industry company from 8 employees to over 600 in six years and you can only do this by exceeding your clients expectations. Over this weekend VS have managed to upset a couple of thousand passengers who will moan to many more. VS have to try a manage there controllable operation better.

Unless the delay is caused by ATC it doesn't matter to those passengers that other airlines are performing as badly.

True. Up until I just saw the prior post to mine the catering issue was, as far as I understood it, just a rumour. If it is indeed the case that the chaos caused by catering bled into today, then yes, Virgin do need to manage their controllable operation better so that their image is not at the mercy of the poor performance of others.

A quick look at the LGW departures page shows a lot of flights, across all carriers, delayed by 40 minutes or more.

Both BA's flight to Orlando were on time today

My family finally got away, having been delayed for over 2hours.

Tomorrow it could be BA who are the delayed ones, just luck I guess.

A quick look at the LGW departures page shows a lot of flights, across all carriers, delayed by 40 minutes or more.

Both BA's flight to Orlando were on time today

Curse you for spotting that fact ! They were pretty much the only flights to do so...

My family finally got away, having been delayed for over 2hours.

I hope it hasn't spoiled their holiday too much.