Re: September announcement

If they offer a VX style product, I could definitely see the appeal!

Obviously more details to follow tomorrow, but if this opens up Europe with options to earn miles and perhaps even TP it could be great!

[mitchja]

Great news as far as I'm concerned. I for one will definitely be using this service y)

If they offer a VX style product, I could definitely see the appeal!

That would have appeal, but I can't see that happening when all the other major players don't offer anything like it and it is a highly competitive market for price. A VX style product would cost far more.

[preiffer]

If they offer a VX style product, I could definitely see the appeal!

That would have appeal, but I can't see that happening when all the other major players don't offer anything like it and it is a highly competitive market for price. A VX style product would cost far more.

Errrr - $49 MAN-LHR sounds reasonable. And VX offer their service on an equivalent route...?

(the equivalent, but much less distance than SFO-LAX which is $49 a lot of the time).

Granted, they could always whack on a £200 "fuel surcharge" to ruin the whole thing still :w

I can't work out how exactly this is going to work.

1. What slots?

2. had nothing to do with MAN-LHR as BD had stopped the route before IAG became formally interested and thus as far as the competition authorities were concerned MAN-LHR wasn't operated by BD (rightly) and therefore there was no 'increase' in dominance. This is in stark contrast to say LHR-DME where BD were operating and there has been an increase in dominance by IAG post take over hence having to give up slots.

3. VS are going to need a huge amount of partner airlines on this route to really make it work. The feed that VS will provide directly will not be enough for the route to be sustained IMHO at the frequency that will be required for the route to be competitive.

Won't start until March next year so that gives them around 6 months. Don't they have a few slots leased out to other airlines?

Other alternatives:
1) Transfer some flights to LGW
2) Transfer some flights up to MAN (but kind of defeats the point)
3) Buy slots (the BA mandatory released ones and possibly others... but would be at full market rate)

Errrr - $49 MAN-LHR sounds reasonable. And VX offer their service on an equivalent route...?

(the equivalent, but much less distance than SFO-LAX which is $49 a lot of the time).

Granted, they could always whack on a £200 "fuel surcharge" to ruin the whole thing still :w

I'm not an expert at what will and wont work, but I just gave my opinion.

If you think about some europe routes there is plenty of competion to keep prices at a minimum, could VS offer the VX service for that same price? I don't think they can, would be impressed if they could though.

Also yes the prices between LAX-SFO and LHR-MAN as very similar, but they are different markets, and landing fees are much higher at LHR, not too sure about MAN. Much shorter flight, when will the IFE be turned on? and for how long before its turned off?

It would definatly be a selling point over the LCCs though.

Is that it, some announcement !

VS's first foray in to short haul is quite a big announcement I would say..

Virgin's return to short haul...

Perhaps this route will be maintained by people doing mileage runs.

Errrr - $49 MAN-LHR sounds reasonable. And VX offer their service on an equivalent route...?

(the equivalent, but much less distance than SFO-LAX which is $49 a lot of the time).

Granted, they could always whack on a £200 "fuel surcharge" to ruin the whole thing still :w

I'm not an expert at what will and wont work, but I just gave my opinion.

If you think about some europe routes there is plenty of competion to keep prices at a minimum, could VS offer the VX service for that same price? I don't think they can, would be impressed if they could though.

Also yes the prices between LAX-SFO and LHR-MAN as very similar, but they are different markets, and landing fees are much higher at LHR, not too sure about MAN. Much shorter flight, when will the IFE be turned on? and for how long before its turned off?

It would definatly be a selling point over the LCCs though.

Why should it be a quasi VX service? IT could just as easily be quasi DJ. In fact I would be surprised if we are going to see anything like VX. The idea with this will be for VS to get as many bums on seats. Competition will be bloody tough and as I mentioned earlier VS doesn't have the feed on the scale of IAG so partner airlines will be key. I somehow cant see someone from Surbiton or Trafford picking VS over BA because they off mood lighting or IFE on a 40 minute flight., they will pick them because of the price and connections.

And of course it could be now that VS really do feel the cost of being a small airline. If I live in MAN and next year I want to get to say ICN I can:

- Take BA to ICN via LHR;
- Take EK to ICN Via DXB;
- Take AF/KL to ICN via AMS/CDG;
- Take VS via LHR and PVG/NRT.

It will be tough- very tough.

Why should it be a quasi VX service? IT could just as easily be quasi DJ. In fact I would be surprised if we are going to see anything like VX. The idea with this will be for VS to get as many bums on seats. Competition will be bloody tough and as I mentioned earlier VS doesn't have the feed on the scale of IAG so partner airlines will be key. I somehow cant see someone from Surbiton or Trafford picking VS over BA because they off mood lighting or IFE on a 40 minute flight., they will pick them because of the price and connections.

Exactly, mood lighting and IFE would cost more, some don't think so though.

Who is going to finance this? When you have just made a £80million loss, will getting the money be easy?

Exactly, mood lighting and IFE would cost more, some don't think so though.

And even if you could get a good price on IFE or some swanky tube lighting it may well be a waste of money. If I were SR I would be wanting a lot of research into how often a Brit would use IFE on a forty min flight. In the day of the iPad, I was under the impression IFE was now redundant!

bmi stuggled with LHR-MAN for years, and how many codeshares did they have?

This seems like Branson's plan to sabotage the revenue growth plans of First Group who have just snatched the Euston - Manchester rail route from him. (I say 'him' as he's made it personal).

Am I being cynical by saying that I think this is just a marketing ploy and will not happen?

[preiffer]

Oh, for clarity, I'm not suggesting they SHOULD do a VX-a-like. TBH, it's wasted on SFO-LAX / SFO-LAS etc even in the US. The challenge was that it wasn't do-able in an airline model for low prices. Looking at the LHR-MAN route (and LAX landing fees aren't cheap either) as a comparison where average tickets are around £100 - I dispute that : it CAN be done.

*However* they would need to find the sweet-spot in terms of quality, service and price. Given what's happening on VS' mainline right now, I'd say those responsible for finding sweet spots should find the nearest door and let someone who knows what they're doing take their seats. On a new domestic feed route, they HAVE to get it right as bums on seats on a very frequent service is the simple make or break for it.

I can't work out how exactly this is going to work.

1. What slots?

Erm BA has to give up some slots as part of the BMI acquisition.

Won't start until March next year so that gives them around 6 months. Don't they have a few slots leased out to other airlines?

See above.

bmi stuggled with LHR-MAN for years, and how many codeshares did they have?

3. VS are going to need a huge amount of partner airlines on this route to really make it work.

BMI's problem was that they gave away revenue to all their alliance partners so no, I don't see that VS needs many partner codeshares.

Oh, and who said anything about MAN?

This seems like Branson's plan to sabotage the revenue growth plans of First Group who have just snatched the Euston - Manchester rail route from him. (I say 'him' as he's made it personal).

SRB is a business man, he doesn't do personal revenge without a good bottom line.

Am I being cynical by saying that I think this is just a marketing ploy and will not happen?

Well the proof will be in the pudding (as long as there are no cherry tomatoes on top!).

I'm no expert, but live in MAN catchment..
I can now get BA direct from LBA which is even nearer.
I can get train to London in 2 and a bit hours, similar from MAN
What I can't do easily is get to LGW
Would I use a VS from MAN unlikely if BA keep LBA running, if I was commuting why bother getting out to LHR and then have at least 1hr + 40mins - be just as quick to go by train direct city centre to city centre?
VS would serious have to undercut BA on both existing MAN & LBA
Also tie times in well for connections at LHR.
Can see the ploy, BMI failed, can't see VS hoping to achieve anything other than losing more money just to show BA they aren't dependent on them....

I can now get BA direct from LBA which is even nearer.

Sadly LBA is rumoured to be simply slot sitting until a more lucrative route can be resourced.

[Darren Wheeler]

Wasn't all the same things said about VX when they first announced their plans?

I would put money on that this is just the beginning, with much, much more to come.

And yes, Virgin entering the domestic market is a huge announcement.

Let's wait for the next instalment.

Enjoy !

David

[honey lamb]

There was a report in the business section of today's Irish Examiner which suggested that Ryanair was in discussion with BA and VS to take over some of Aer Lingus's slots if they should be successful in their bid to take over that airline. Given that the EU previously vetoed such a move it seems to be a non-starter.

SRB talked about this - short haul routes- back in May and pledged to be up and running by next summer

The embargo is now lifted.. Full article on the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19324962

[Darren Wheeler]

But is this the September announcement?

Departs from MAN at 0650 1220 1750 / Departs from LHR at 0920 1610 2010
Flight numbers VS3041,2,3,4,5 & 6
Bookable today (21/08) via the Contact Centre, and 29/08 online

SRH - How about VS polling your Facebook users for preffered short haul flights?

If you have any influence ABZ-LGW please

Oh don't you worry - ABZ and EDI will be on their way if they win the 'remedy slots' from BA/bmi, but they may be into LHR..