Alcohol ban VS43

Surely the CC can see that these large stag/hen do's are so inhebriated before they board and should be turned away at the gates.

I don't believe that CC should act as police officers, and fully support the moves being made. These measures can be implemented flexibly by the FSM according to the state of things.

Will VS change there advertising now and web site to reflect this change ?? and inform people before booking. 8D

Why would/should they? Virgin are fulfilling their end of the bargain by offering complimentary drinks during the flight. It states nowhere on VS's or the V'Hol website that the comlimentary drink services are unlimited. VS's website actively encourages drinking soft drink to counteract the negative effects of alcohol, as do the after takeoff FSM's PAs stating that "crew can and will refuse to serve alcohol based on consumption", not to mention the fact that it a criminal offence to be drunk inboard a commercial airliner.

Watch the YouTube video of the BGI flight again and listen to the voices in the back ground criticising the unlimited drink mentality of some people when they fly. The end result being a poor little boy being squashed between his parents as his dad is being held in a head lock by a drunk and unruly person, who I'm sure was a perfectly agreeable person when he boarded the plane. I am of course speculating here as none of us know the fine details of this case, but I uphold the belief that if everyone is to enjoy the flight to the same degree something has to change.

It seems strange that they seem to encourage drinking in some classes.
In the Clubhouse they offer cocktails, spirits champagne etc then when you board a welcome glass of champagne etc.

I appreciate UC and PE pay more for their flight but its assumed people in these classes can drink without getting drunk and abusive.

I appreciate the Economy section has the majority of passengers in it but surely more crew are assigned to look after them all.

How hard can it be for 1 of the crew to walk the plane looking for problem people or groups and then alerting the other crew which ones to stop serving.
I dont see why everyone should suffer because of a very small minority.
If Virgin were prepared to adopt the rule across ALL classes i would be happy.

Would CCTV be an option? Anti-social behaviour on planes is simply not on, much of this is fuelled by alcohol consumption, but by a minority. The vast majority, myself included, enjoy a good drink while flying, but I am pleased to say I can handle my drink, whereas sadly, a small minority can't.

It seems a shame for a minority to spoil things for others, but thats how things are.

I would never start a fight on a plane, as I know I would be arrested and probably banned from flying. I think people need to be reminded of the repurcussions of such behaviour in a suitable manner.

Not sure whether CCTV would actually stop the bad behaviour or not, as most drunk people couldn't give two hoots whether they are being filmed or not, but at least it would be good evidence for court.
Unfortunately by the nature of the destination, Vegas will attract more trouble on average than most other places.

I can understand Baza's argument also. When I was a grunt in the Royal Navy, a huge bone of contention was that the lower ranks were allowed 3 tins of beer per day, NCOs and Officers were pretty much allowed to drink what they wanted. On the other hand, if they were caught drunk onboard, they had much more to lose.
On balance though, I still think VS have made a good call that must of been hard to make.
If a group of people in Economy start causing problems, it would be much harder to control than say one tipsy "toff" (not my words) and I'm sure they do have problems sometimes in PE/UC

This may prove to be a temporary and pretty inefficient approach to crowd control, IMO - as baza's pointed out, a bottle of champagne each is an option, and if there's not enough crew to monitor 350+ pax with VS's own distro, I don't see how they can control them consuming their own duty free. Rationing could very well not work in the long run and if they want to stop behavior which they officially sanction they will need to enforce their policies, and have people arrested who are being disruptive. Will be curious to see how this one plays out.

Although individuals may well bring on their own alcohol, they are not permitted to drink it onboard unless served by the crew and as the crew's time will no longer be monopolised by excessive drinkers on the flight, they will be freed up to actively monitor and enforce this rule. They will know exactly how many drinks services have been done so if an individual or a group appear to be drunk, the crew and other witnesses will know that it was not due to the crew and this information would be able to be passed on to the authorities if so needed. There will always be a minority that think that the rules don't apply to them and a completely open bar policy only adds fuel to this fire.

We can argue this until the cows come home, but the fact remains that more has to be done to curb the growing trend of excessive drinking onboard especially in cabins where there is a higher passengers to crew ratio. What else would you suggest as an effective, efficient and fairer way of ensuring that all customers in the economy cabin receive the same level of service?

[honey lamb]

Although individuals may well bring on their own alcohol, they are not permitted to drink it onboard unless served by the crew and as the crew's time will no longer be monopolised by excessive drinkers on the flight, they will be freed up to actively monitor and enforce this rule. They will know exactly how many drinks services have been done so if an individual or a group appear to be drunk, the crew and other witnesses will know that it was not due to the crew and this information would be able to be passed on to the authorities if so needed. There will always be a minority that think that the rules don't apply to them and a completely open bar policy only adds fuel to this fire.

The crew might know exactly how many drinks services have been done but what they won't know is just how many drinks have been taken prior to boarding the aircraft. When I was flying the Cork-Dublin route on a regular basis at about 8am there were a few flights that left before mine to AMS, LHR and STN and perhaps other destinations. What never ceased to amaze me was the level of alcohol that had been partaken at that hour of the morning. As each flight departed the amount of pint glasses and others with a tell-tale slice of lemon in them was incredible to behold. The attitude was "The holiday starts here".

We also subscribe to that philosophy. How many times does someone send a "Greetings from the Clubhouse" post and we are there urging them to start quaffing champagne or a Virgin Redhead on the basis that the sun is over the yardarm somewhere in the world? The difference is that in UC and PE there is sufficient crew to monitor how much each person takes but having said that there have been recorded occasions where I would have dreaded being on a certain flight in UC. :0 In economy the legal crew:passenger ratio is 1:50 which is quite a lot to monitor especially when there is more than one point of obtaining alcohol in an economy cabin

Well, the few times I have ventured into the arena that is LGW-LAS economy, I suspect they will swap the alcohol for raw meat.

Well, the few times I have ventured into the arena that is LGW-LAS economy, I suspect they will swap the alcohol for raw meat.

This is the kind of post i mentioned earlier. Snobbery at its best.

as for the scary video earlier,

A man aged 76 and two members of his family were arrested after a ‘vicious’ punch-up on a plane that took cabin crew 30 minutes to break up.

Derek Edmond, his daughter Zoe King and her husband Martin were on a Virgin Atlantic flight from Gatwick to Barbados when a Danish family sitting nearby accused them of being too noisy.

A 76 YEAR OLD.... Hardly your average vegas stag or hen is it.
Have they restricted alcohol on the Barbados flight as well?

Can anyone link to a story or news item about the LGW-LAS route where all these incidents occur?

but having said that there have been recorded occasions where I would have dreaded being on a certain flight in UC. :0

Hope you are not referring to me there HL :# :#

Another G&T?

It's all very well saying 4 but the fact of the matter was it was two. And all your comments do not answer the concern that the scummers in economy get treated differently to PE and upper class who last time I checked all humans react roughly the same way to alcohol, regardless of cabin class!

Unfortunately the rise of disruptive passengers has been steadily increasing on this route. Virgin has made the decision to trial several alternative ways to control and distribute alcohol. Instead of serving alcohol from the galleys the crew will do 1-2 more additional bar services mid flight via carts. This way everyone has an equal opportunity to have a drink without the need to close bars early due to over consumption from others. So potentially you will have 4 bar services: 1 pre dinner, 1 with dinner and 2 mid flight. Soft drinks and water are still readily available via the galleys.
This allows the crew to do other necessary duties such as toilet & cabin checks, which is not possible if trapped in galleys serving alcoholic drinks.
Regardless if you pay for alcohol or not onboard a lot of passengers feel the need to get drunk as possible with this 'sin city' mentality added with a lot of stag parties, and with up to 455 passengers onboard and only 15 crew, it was becoming impossible to manage the cabin safely. So something had to give.
This change was necessary on these flights and the majority of well travelled and reasonable passengers understand this and still enjoy the start of their holidays onboard to Vegas.
If you feel the need for more alcohol you can still pre order a bottle of champagne to enjoy onboard. However i don't see that having up to 4 free alcoholic drinks rounds onboard is unfair or restrictive on a 10 hour flight.
Having operated several of these trial flights, I have only ever had one passenger out of hundreds who was not happy with this decision, the vast majority of passengers actually comment on how quiet, civilised and enjoyable these flights have now become as a direct result of this change.

To any virgin staff reading, my complaint will be in the post. And hope you have some good answers and a lot of flying club miles to spare

To any virgin staff reading, my complaint will be in the post. And hope you have some good answers and a lot of flying club miles to spare

Fly BA. Oh they do the same. No fly charter and buy your drinks ... it seems the overwhelming majority here see the issue and find the solution not unreasonable ...

[honey lamb]

but having said that there have been recorded occasions where I would have dreaded being on a certain flight in UC. :0

Hope you are not referring to me there HL :# :#

Another G&T?

No, not you, joey but others know of the flight to which I was referring. And I wasn't on that flight either, thank goodness

but having said that there have been recorded occasions where I would have dreaded being on a certain flight in UC. :0

Hope you are not referring to me there HL :# :#

Another G&T?

No, not you, joey but others know of the flight to which I was referring. And I wasn't on that flight either, thank goodness

Indeed we do.

My view is that the crew have to manage a large number of passengers in Y (often travelling in groups) and spread over a large area. UC and PE have smaller cabins so in my view are easier to observe.
There is no simple solution, but only serving alcohol to passengers in their seats (and perhaps only from the cart) is a workable solution. It would also negate the congregation of passengers around the galley area ( but it also happens elsewhere ie around the exit areas). Many US carriers already expressly prohibit this for security reasons.
I have huge sympathy with the crew. By nature of what I do professionally I encounter individuals who are intoxicated. Not all are difficult/abusive/aggressive etc (actually very few are) but for those who are (and we're unable to diffuse this) we're able to call the police ( who respond rapidly).
The crew don't have this option, so any move to address this seemingly increasing occurance gets a y) from me.

DL

Looks like a tick the box and pay a premium solution might work, an extra £30 for anything other than pop coffee or tea option, tick the box plus one that says if you get too typsy you agree to be offloaded and if disruptive you will be prosecuted and possibly restrained.

On another note, it is getting rather tedious reading the pointed remarks or quips about premium/UCS pax and then outrage if anyone dares say anything remotely funny about EC. Reverse snobbery at its best!

Well, the few times I have ventured into the arena that is LGW-LAS economy, I suspect they will swap the alcohol for raw meat.

This is the kind of post i mentioned earlier. Snobbery at its best.

I agree. I fly all three classes all the time, granted Y less than other but from that do I take it that when I fly

UC - I am classed as a snob?
PE - I am classed as a wannabe?
Econ - I am thrown raw meat and / or other cave man refs??

From my experiences, they are a narrow view granted, I see much more bad behavior in UC than I have seen in any other class. When someone else is paying and the pax in question believes they have a "right" due to the cost of their ticket then that can equal one bad pax that could drink to excess, behave badly etc, etc.

Avoiding the snobbery comments...

This whole thread is debating the supply of alcohol while on the flight. As I have said in two posts already; the two major incidents that I was privy to, were both fuelled by pre-flight drinks - nothing at all to do with on-board. This discussion, really, needs to be how they handle the situation, and not the supply of drinks on board.

The on-board CC are literally picking up the pieces, and I see the logic in saying "the bar is closed" - it avoids individual confrontation, and that probably (in itself) avoids drunken arguments on the flight.

Why close the bar other cabins, that the drunkens (potentially) can't see...

It's a decision based on avoiding as much disturbance as possible, not a decision made based on class.

It's not easy to set a global rule. Stopping economy drinking because someone is hammered in UC, is going to piss them off! But what they can’t see, they don't know - and I think that's the point. They could close the bar in UC, without stopping Y. ANd vice vesa.

It just happens to be that the odds are against Y, because there is more chance of bieng on a dry flight, because there are more people, and more groups of people.

Oh for the unenlightened days back in the late 90's.

Flew Aer Lingus to the States once and their idea of a bar run in Economy was to put two foldable crates out on the crew jumpseats (on either side) and fill them up with miniatures and cans and let everyone help themselves. I wondered why there was a queue for the loos so early in the flight. The ironical thing was that I had to disturb them in the galley and ask them if they had any diet coke to hand. The trio of businessmen sitting across the aisle must have had about six or seven cans at least throughout the entire trip and were still drinking on our approach to JFK.

Oh and there was the UA flight from LHR where it was announced that US licensing laws applied so anyone under 21 wouldn't be served an alcoholic drink. Caused a few faces around us to fall. That was about the only time I've been asked by the passenger in front whether or not I minded their seat reclining too.

[honey lamb]

Oh for the unenlightened days back in the late 90's.

Flew Aer Lingus to the States once and their idea of a bar run in Economy was to put two foldable crates out on the crew jumpseats (on either side) and fill them up with miniatures and cans and let everyone help themselves. I wondered why there was a queue for the loos so early in the flight. The ironical thing was that I had to disturb them in the galley and ask them if they had any diet coke to hand. The trio of businessmen sitting across the aisle must have had about six or seven cans at least throughout the entire trip and were still drinking on our approach to JFK.

Won't happen now. EI charge for alcoholic drinks in Economy to the US

Sitting in the LGW lounge about 3 years ago with Mrs S and Miss S eating my breakfast before our MCO flight I was rudely disturbed by a group of (use your own words here). The language etc was not acceptable. I know mine is 'ripe' at times, but there is a time and place, and the LGW lounge in front of kids is not one of those times.

Anyway, I stuck it long enough and approached the staff (not being brave enough to tackle them myself). The staff had noticed it and said they were going to mention it, but knew the group were going very soon as they were on the Vegas flight.

True enough, they did get up and go, much to my relief. I did mention to Mrs S that I would not be over the moon being stuck in a small U/C cabin for 11 hours with that mob. They could have been Au's like myself (oh, those were the days) and not in U/C, but no matter - they would have been a nightmare where ever they sat.

I don't know the answer to the OP. I very rarely drink (suffered too much from hangovers so just find it easier not to now), but I think I would be miffed to be told that because of the a#*e in seat number whatever Mrs S can't have her holiday G&T.

Not an easy one.

This is a general problem on the stag / hen routes. My local airport is Alicante which services Benidorm and certain flights are avoided at all costs. Alcohol is charged for on these routes and I am often left speechless at the amount served to obviously seriously intoxicated groups. But as the alcohol is being sold and i believe the crew are bonuses on sales there is no attempt made to control consumption. The language especially if there are mixed hen and stags is utterly disgraceful and any passengers looking disgusted are often verbally abused. Unfortunately the parties are often well oiled before even boarding and the only solution is to avoid these route or if possible travel on the lighs that don't attract these parties. By the way no one likes a drink more than me and on my recent family trip to Montego Bay we all were extremely lubricated in the clubhouse and made good use of the bar on the flight, but our decency to others ensured that self control was used and when we were all 'full up' we made our beds and went to sleep

It will be interesting to see what behaviour this drives once word of the ban/trial/whatever gets around and people may decide "I have to get smashed before I get on the plane", or "Let's sneak alcohol in water bottles on". Unfortunately the crew may have to deal with a whole different set of issues, as well as other pax.