Delta considering bid for SQ's stake in VS

From today's Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012 ... rd-branson

Odd language about the Virgin brand going? Why wouldn't any other airline want to exploit, what is a widely accepted, quality brand, especially in the air?

Well here's SRB's response to that rumour...
http://virg.in/aa

......... So business as usual ......... ( maybe ?| )

David.

From today's Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012 ... rd-branson

Odd language about the Virgin brand going? Why wouldn't any other airline want to exploit, what is a widely accepted, quality brand, especially in the air?

Well here's SRB's response to that rumour...
http://virg.in/aa

That's more reassuring!

Willie up to mischief again it seems.

I like the way SRB refers to VA as 'his baby'. Does this mean he may be more directly involved with the running of the airline in the future? (Assuming that he hasn't been in recent years).

Perhaps he'll hang on to his share just to spite WW!!

Bloomberg is saying that this is close to conclusion, DL taking on SQ's stake, applying for JV with VS transatlantic, and no doubt VS joining SkyTeam as a consequence ... and the latest rumours are that SRB stays in control (which is good IMO).

A good conclusion then?

I do think that all this might provide a good opportunity for VX to get into Skyteam, I would imagine Delta wouldn't mind having them as a West Coast partner given their relatively limited operations here. Exciting times I tell thee.

Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum, but have enjoyed reading it for some time

This is a very interesting thread. DL seek to buy SQ's 49%. SRB says he will not cede control. So what I don't understand is what all the KL/AF stuff is about. SRB isn't ceding control, so there isn't any more room for sale of shares with voting rights!

I also find it interesting that VS didn't want the slots for Cairo, Nice etc, especially as slinky09 said they were profitable for BMI. Strange. Of course, I'm not privy to the information that SRB is, but on the face of it, odd.

What exactly is DL buying? A stake in an airline that is currently struggling. What's in it for them? Virgin made an £80million loss last year. That's serious.

As for SRB's riposte to BA with the £1m bet. I love that. What fun. But what I'd suggest to BA is that they reply and say that the Virgin Atlantic brand won't be around in 10 years, not five. Or even seven. See how SRB responds to that.

Whatever the outcome, Willie Walsh got something right:

"they need to do something to reinvigorate themselves"

Virgin really shook things up. They lead the way in revolutionary concepts like flat beds in business class. They are floundering now, and making heavy losses that can't continue. They need to reinvigorate.

Welcome Always!

This is a very interesting thread. DL seek to buy SQ's 49%. SRB says he will not cede control. So what I don't understand is what all the KL/AF stuff is about. SRB isn't ceding control, so there isn't any more room for sale of shares with voting rights!

I also find it interesting that VS didn't want the slots for Cairo, Nice etc, especially as slinky09 said they were profitable for BMI. Strange. Of course, I'm not privy to the information that SRB is, but on the face of it, odd.

What exactly is DL buying? A stake in an airline that is currently struggling. What's in it for them? Virgin made an £80million loss last year. That's serious.

We'll have to see what happens but it sounds like SRB is not giving up control so the AF/KLM bit is a diversion.

What is DL buying into - well apparently tickets from London to the US accounts for 25% of global business and first revenue! Amazeballs! DL sounds like it is seeking to add VS to it's joint venture across the Atlantic so that it can revenue share on flights that have potentially great margin to be made. Added to that it gets the opportunity to increase VS's business by connecting DL passengers from its US airports, add to its own business by giving VS passengers connections in the US, and it buys an asset that has valuable LHR slots. I do think though, that VS gets more from this than DL.

As to Nice, Cairo etc. I subsequently learned that VS could indeed take those slots in the future (within three years that is) so I'm guessing that it decided not to right now. Perhaps because it doesn't have the planes (A330s perhaps once the B787s arrive) or because that would mean needed an Upper experience through T1.

So it sounds like we're not moving to T2 but it would be a great shame to have to move to T4, my least favourite terminal ... but maybe we'll have to to join SkyTeam there (although I don't believe there's a domestic passenger handling capability at T4 so VS may stay at T1 and T3). Shame about the T2 rumours, that would have been cool.

Sounds like DL is building a second force at LHR along with CDG/AMS.

DL will now have domestic feeder flights in both UK and US, as well as UK connections via CDG and AMS via AF/KL.

A really shrewd move, and just the helping hand that VS needs.

A win-win all round.

We'll have to see what happens but it sounds like SRB is not giving up control so the AF/KLM bit is a diversion.

What is DL buying into - well apparently tickets from London to the US accounts for 25% of global business and first revenue! Amazeballs! DL sounds like it is seeking to add VS to it's joint venture across the Atlantic so that it can revenue share on flights that have potentially great margin to be made. Added to that it gets the opportunity to increase VS's business by connecting DL passengers from its US airports, add to its own business by giving VS passengers connections in the US, and it buys an asset that has valuable LHR slots. I do think though, that VS gets more from this than DL.

As to Nice, Cairo etc. I subsequently learned that VS could indeed take those slots in the future (within three years that is) so I'm guessing that it decided not to right now. Perhaps because it doesn't have the planes (A330s perhaps once the B787s arrive) or because that would mean needed an Upper experience through T1.

So it sounds like we're not moving to T2 but it would be a great shame to have to move to T4, my least favourite terminal ... but maybe we'll have to to join SkyTeam there (although I don't believe there's a domestic passenger handling capability at T4 so VS may stay at T1 and T3). Shame about the T2 rumours, that would have been cool.

I can see what you're saying about the profitability of UK-US business. However, how come VS aren't making a profit out of it? And Delta won't be annexing UK-US business only as part of the deal (presumably).

Will Delta's US infeeding be that advantageous to VS? They don't fly to either of their hubs - ATL and CVG.

And what slots? VS own the slots. DL would own 49% of them, but so what? That would only benefit DL upon their sale. 49% is only 49% and, in terms of voting rights, is 100% away from 51%...

It would be fantastic if the new joint venture could move to the new T2. A real advantage, and very advantageous imo.

So now we know what happened to the Nice, Cairo and Jeddah slots, VS didn't take them. Which surprises me, the Cairo and Jeddah flights for BMI were reputedly profitable, and Nice is always a potentially high yield route and was great for BMI in the past ... guess we have some more surprises in store.

I really give up as to what was profitable for BD. There is so much conjecture and hearsay out there. The bottom line remains that BD cant have been that profitable across the board, if it was then they would still be here today.

My knowledge of JED flight is limited to say the least however my understanding is that it is the sort of route that would be suited to one of the older 343's.

Will Delta's US infeeding be that advantageous to VS? They don't fly to either of their hubs - ATL and CVG.

Not sure CVG is really that much of a hub anymore. Sure it was in the early noughties but since the NW "merger" it has been largely downsized, it only has one international service for example. Domestically it is important but still however JFK is a much, much larger hub and is the main focus of a lot of DL international expansion. Sure ATL is still the daddy however a lot of international services have in the last couple of seasons been transfered to JFK from ATL.

Post the NW merger these days the hubs seem to be ATL, JFK, NRT/HND. MSP, DTW, SEA (as a West Coast Asian hub and works well with the Alaskan tie up) CDG and SLC. MEM is also now looking a bit larger than CVG.

DL is certainly a lot more than a two hub airline.

We'll have to see what happens but it sounds like SRB is not giving up control so the AF/KLM bit is a diversion.

I am not sure that it is that much of a diversion. Given the unbelievably close relationship DL have with AF/KL I cant see VS not being more closely aligned with them. Heck one by product of all this is that VS *could* end up having BE giving it a bit of feed or a helping hand (read Jungle Jets maybe for the domestics/codeshare on BE services into MAN and LGW) given the relationship between BE and AF/KL.

Remember that AF/KL/DL is a jointly branded operation across the world. I can see at LHR/ATL/JFK etc the branding will now be branded for all four airlines. Remember those oddball AF LHR-LAX flights? My understanding is that they were in effect operated because DL could not find the appropriate aircraft to operate the route (for a variety of reasons the flights didnt work).

There is no hiding away from the fact that even if KL/AF do not get a stake in VS there will be a forced much closer alignment between the VS and AF/KL.

The extent of the VS AF/KL relationship is unclear but I would not be surprised if in the short term it will be akin to the relationship DL now has with AZ (remember AZ are 25% owned by AF/KL). In the back of DL inflight mag, there is much less reference to Skyteam and a lot more reference to the relationship with AF/KL/AZ.

I wonder what will happen to all the back office functions at VS though. For example I had to email DL customer services the other day, my return phone call came from KLM on behalf of DL. One wonders how long it will be before some dutchman is answering the Flying Club line?!

https://twitter.com/richardbranson/stat ... 6454161408
https://twitter.com/richardbranson/stat ... 7947087872

Well I'm certainly relieved by that!

Who's spreading rumours that I'm about to give up control of @virginatlantic? Sorry BA, we have no plans to disappear

I'll pay BA staff £1m if @virginatlantic disappears. If not, they pay ours. Will BA put money where their mouth is?

And here's the link he posted with those two status'
http://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/b ... g-anywhere

Are all posts held for moderating on this forum? Or is it because I'm new? It's really offputting...

Anyway, to my point! Virgin Atlantic lost £80 million last year. For a relatively small airline, that's a big deal!

It has gone past the time to wake up. It's like WAKE UP!!!! You are losing money! Less of the marketing bravado, and more serious action! Hopefully any deal with DL, and joining an alliance, will help.

[honey lamb]

Are all posts held for moderating on this forum? Or is it because I'm new? It's really offputting...

Only for newbies. You should be OK from now on. It had to be introduced as a spam prevention measure

Looks like the deal has been done!

[Neil]

Deal now announced.

A new thread has been started to discuss the deal and can be found here. Please use the new thread for all discussions from now on.

Thanks,
Neil