VS036 - broken and in need of new parts

Well I'm bored of sitting in the Barbados departure lounge for 4 hours longer than I expected to as VS036 (Pretty Woman) has a fault with a door.

They've managed to fly from Antigua to here at low level but now got to wait another 90mins at least for the part to be couriered over from Miami.

God knows how long it will take to fit it before we can finally start the journey home.

Shame really as I've had a nice break and this somewhat ruins it.

So what are my options regarding some form of compensation for having to sit around from 6pm until 2am doing sweet FA !

I've had vouchers to get food, but everything was more or less shut in the airport by the time we got them.

Now a lot of tired and angry people sat here waiting for something to happen.

Mmm rant over.

Night all.

Every passenger on the aircraft is entitled to €600 compensation under EU 261/2004 as this is a technical fault within the airlines control.

VS should be making you aware of your rights and have copies of the legislation at the airport. If you're still there I suggest you request this. When you get home, send a letter recorded delivery requesting €600 per person for the tech delay. Expect VS to give a lame excuse so you may have to write back.

Every passenger on the aircraft is entitled to €600 compensation under EU 261/2004 as this is a technical fault within the airlines control.

VS should be making you aware of your rights and have copies of the legislation at the airport. If you're still there I suggest you request this. When you get home, send a letter recorded delivery requesting €600 per person for the tech delay. Expect VS to give a lame excuse so you may have to write back.

Has anyone had any luck claiming from VS for a tech delay? When this happened to me a couple of years ago they wrote back to me and said that it was beyond their control and therefore I was not entitled to compensation!

I was under the impression that safety issues (taking off with a faulty door I'd class as that!) would mean you're not entitled to anything?

Surely every tech fault is also a safety issue if the plane can't fly until it is resolved, so this could be used as an excuse every time?

I was under the impression that safety issues (taking off with a faulty door I'd class as that!) would mean you're not entitled to anything?

I think safety issues refers to poor weather, and anything else external to the aircraft that would make flying unsafe.

A faulty door is not in this category.

No doubt Virgin will wriggle but it seems a fair cop to me, unless they can claim it was extraordinary that is a fault that would not have been picked up by routine maintenance.

At 180,000 euros (assuming 300 passengers) you can see why airlines would wriggle!

If they wriggle, that's what the small claims court is for.

At 180,000 euros (assuming 300 passengers) you can see why airlines would wriggle!

Yeah but only a small minority would persist and get their refund. Most people would simply give up after the first fob off reply. That is generally why complaints are not dealt with properly until it is followed up a few times.

I have had both great trips and poor trips with Virgin. on return from Cancun this year we received substandard conditions in PE. Headrest was broken and a host of other things that detracted from the advertised PE experience. I complained and got fobbed off, I followed it up and got fobbed with 5000 flying club miles, I followed that up and got what I wanted and seemed to be fair for both parties. A space available upgrade to PE for both me and the OH.

With complaints and compensation persistence is key. I have only needed to actually go as far a small claims court once and Thomas Cook settled out of court. again it took a while but we got their eventually.

Tell them you want compensation, give them an opportunity to respond if they do not agree to compensate you advised them that you are now going to be charging for your time in dealing with the matter. and make them aware of what your rates are. That way the longer it takes them the higher their bill.

Im having a similar issue with Brussels Airlines. They completely ignored me, so I took up the matter with the CAA - and they're not proving to be much use either.

As far as I understood it, if you're delayed by more than 4 hours theres a set amount you should get.

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?pageid=12745

BA made it very easy with my claim back in October. As its such a clear cut thing, I don't see why some airlines are so difficult about it.

I was on that flight and will be claiming but don't expect VA to pay up as when things go wrong they don't want to know. I said in 2010 when cancelled due to snow when in departures never again, why did I do it!

They were very poor at keeping us and the Barbados passengers informed, 1hr delay, 1 hr delay then nothing until another 1.5hrs they took us to get some food. 2 guys who got on at Barbados was told 20 mins delay when we were already 1 hour behind in Antigua.

If they wriggle, that's what the small claims court is for.

very true. had a smimilar thing with BA years ago. letters exchanged and they kept saying 'clear off' .when i sent one saying I will take this to court, they replied 'go ahead'.

so i did. the day the court papers arrived at BA HQ I got a phone call from their 'legal team'saying it was a terrible mistake and settling

they bank on a minority going the distance.be one

Hi,

Thanks for the responses so far.
I've completed their claim form and sent it in today so now waiting for them to refuse it.

I did read their statement that 'flight safety concerns' are excluded from the claim, but if the flight was safe enough to fly from Antigua to Barbados, then as far as I'm concerned they cannot use this as an excuse.

I'm also not saying they didn't do all they could at the time to fix it quickly, as they did. But sitting around for 9 hours (from arrival at the airport to finally taking off) is not right and I'm just now hopefully going to have to fight for what I think I'm entitled to.

One final question, they gave us a form on the flight to send in to claim some miles as an apology. Anyone know how soon after the flight these need to be sent in, as for me that's an admission of guilt right there. Just don't want to claim them, if that harms my case with the EU complaint.

Andy

we also chased VA for compersation for a 24 hour delay,got nowhere apart from a few thousand FC miles

Andyr357, from a purely personal point of view I hope your claim is dismissed and you receive nothing.
Reason 1 being that ultimately we as customers will pay for your claim through the price of our future fares,
Reason 2 being that I'm sick of the compensation culture that has come from America.
Be British and grit your teath and accept that these things happen!

r on this flight, the aircraft could not fly higher than 10,000 ft, due to the issue with the door. it was possible to fly to Barbados from Antigua as we flew under 10,000ft. But obviously not safe to fly across the Atlantic at 10,000ft!. That is why there was a safety issue regarding the door and the departure from Barbados. This was eventually fixed and we all got home safe and sound.

Andyr357, from a purely personal point of view I hope your claim is dismissed and you receive nothing.
Reason 1 being that ultimately we as customers will pay for your claim through the price of our future fares,
Reason 2 being that I'm sick of the compensation culture that has come from America.
Be British and grit your teath and accept that these things happen!

Without commenting on the merits of a claim in this situation I do disagree with you - airlines have gotten away with upsetting passengers travel over many years for purely their own operational reasons, and the legislation that came into effect in the EU was a reaction to that. We might argue it is to vague, or to generous, or other, but in the case of passenger rights I'm on the side of statutory support.

On ANet in the BA forum there are several threads at the moment about compulsory downgrades (from First) and how BA fobs off their passengers claims for redress. I add this as a comment to illustrate this is not a VS or an OP specific issue, but one airlines have tried to get away with for years.

It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.
Most complaint resolution is a matter of negotiation and usually settled amicably.
The ones that aren't are usually submitted by professional complainers wanting to pay off their over extended credit cards. Submitting your time rates is a pointless exercise - it's ignored and rightly so.

Without commenting on the merits of a claim in this situation I do disagree with you - airlines have gotten away with upsetting passengers travel over many years for purely their own operational reasons, and the legislation that came into effect in the EU was a reaction to that. We might argue it is to vague, or to generous, or other, but in the case of passenger rights I'm on the side of statutory support.

Very well put - y)

I was a crew member on this flight, the aircraft could not fly higher than 10,000 ft, due to the issue with the door. it was possible to fly to Barbados from Antigua as we flew under 10,000ft. But obviously not safe to fly across the Atlantic at 10,000ft!. That is why there was a safety issue regarding the door and the departure from Barbados. This was eventually fixed and we all got home safe and sound.

If this is accurate, then the OP (and every other passenger on the aircraft) has a 100% valid claim under EU261/2004.

VS trying to fob people off on board with a few thousand FC points is totally unacceptable.

I can appreciate all views expressed, for and against, and would also state that the flight crew on that flight were excellent. Nothing more they could have done, in difficult circumstances, and they too are human beings, having to work way longer than they should have had to. I have nothing bad to say about them and want to make it clear that my annoyance is with the airline not cabin crew.

I've no problem if you want my claim to be dismissed. Using your logic, I will also be paying more for my flights in the future if I win, as I generally only fly Virgin long haul where possible. But it's not about compensation, it's about complaining to make sure a service provider knows they provided a below par service.

We pay an awful lot of money for our flights, and at times we have to take a stand to fight for what's right and to ensure the airlines know not all of their passengers will just roll over and be fobbed off with a view FC miles.

Even the 'Sorry' leaflet we were given as we got on the plane stated the EU ruling, and our entitlement !

So we'll see what happens.

But it's not about compensation, it's about complaining to make sure a service provider knows they provided a below par service.

We pay an awful lot of money for our flights, and at times we have to take a stand to fight for what's right and to ensure the airlines know not all of their passengers will just roll over and be fobbed off with a view FC miles.

Even the 'Sorry' leaflet we were given as we got on the plane stated the EU ruling, and our entitlement !

So we'll see what happens.

I've edited your last post to highlight the fact that you contradict yourself.
It IS about compensation or you wouldn't have started this thread.
The British are going down the same road as the Americans with their compensation culture!
The flight was delayed, there was a fault with the aircraft, Virgin had to wait for a replacement part,they fitted it and unfortunately you were delayed slightly.
Would you rather the captain attempted to fly back to the UK without having it repaired?

Yes there was a fault, it was fixed eventually, but in my opinion not in a timely way and communication was poor.

Of course I do not want to fly in an un-safe plane, but my argument is why did it even leave Antigua in the first place. Why not stay there, fix it quicker then come to barbados or send a replacement plane and stick us in a hotel for the night ?

It's all about costs, and the airline did what was the cheapest thing for them to do, not what was best for the customer. (In my opinion).

Why do Virgin not have parts available at local airports rather than relying on using a private jet to fly it to Barbados from Miami ? (That's what puts your costs up much higher than any compensation claimed !).

I did use the word 'Entitlement', and so I did contradict myself. I am claiming via the EU rule as in my opinion that is the best method available to be to show my displeasure. When I get an official response, I can then write my response back stating where I think things went wrong and be sure that my complaint with the service has been noted.

I didn't create the EU ruling, as another poster has stated, it has been put in place for a reason. We may differ in our view on it's application to my circumstances, or it's validity to this case, but if we never enforce the rule, the airlines will never focus on improving.

I agree, the compensation culture is getting worse in Britain, but what the Americans do get it right is complaining about poor service. Just 'putting up with it' as we do in Britain is not the right approach as that just says we are happy to receive poor service. So when things go badly wrong (as in this case) we should complain.

And I'm sure we can agree to disagree on that.

Whilst I'm pleased that you've finally admitted that you are really pursuing monetry compoensation and It's not about your displeasure about being slightly delayed.
Your insinuation that all major airlines should have a warehouse at all their flight destinations stacked full of spare parts for every aircraft they operate is frankly ludicrous.
As explained to you, the captain was certain the aircraft was safe to make the journey fram Antigua to Barbados flying at reduced height, smart move by the captain and Virgin as whilst they were in the air the spare part was also in the air on it's way to Barbados.
If as you suggested thay stayed in Antigua then your delay would've been longer than it was!
As for sending another crew and aircraft, another ludicrous question, do you think thay have spare aircraft and flight crews sitting about waiting for the word "scramble" over the tannoy?

[Neil]

Why do Virgin not have parts available at local airports rather than relying on using a private jet to fly it to Barbados from Miami ? (That's what puts your costs up much higher than any compensation claimed !).

Just on this specific point, it wouldn't make any financial or operational sense for Virgin to keep parts at all of their local airports. Yes, Virgin only fly to a relatively small number of airports, but logistically it would be impossible to have and store all the parts needed in case something went wrong. Parts are so a/c and fault specific it would just be impossible and extremely costly to have them kept waiting just in case a fault developed.

Virgin, like most airlines, have one main maintenance base (LGW for VS) and then have agreement with other airlines and manufacturers for parts when their a/c are at non UK locations. It certainly doesn't cost more to do it this way compared to your suggestion of having parts at each airport they use.

Just regarding your actual claim, if your claim meets the criteria set by the EU regulation then you have every right to claim. It is there for a reason and as Slinky has said, all airlines have got away with treating passengers unfairly in these situations for too long. If they offered adequate compensation themselves in the first place then passengers wouldn't be forced to use the EU ruling.

[Neil]

Just to remind people of the way we operate on this forums.

The OP has asked a valid and fair question and received many helpful replies. There is no issue with people expressing their opinion on such matters as the EU ruling, but personal attacks are not allowed on the forum so please ensure we keep on topic discussing the specific situation and what the OP may or may not be entitled to under the EU ruling.