When is Grey Goose not Grey Goose??

It's vodka, a drink based on its purity rather than its taste, the difference is in your mind.

Are purity and taste incompatible?

Nope, but I very much doubt that the likes of Eristoff and Grey Goose are no less and no more pure... I'd certainly not argue about most other spirits, but 20 year old vodka will taste no better than last weeks. Its a label question for vodka far more than a taste or purity.

But yes, it does make you wonder what other ones they might have done. But I'd not be bothered if it was just Grey Goose, and announced as official policy. Indeed having any of Smirnoff, Absolut, Eristoff, Russian standard would be fine as a substitute for Grey Goose for me.

Its like being a connoisseur of smarties, though 20 year old ones of those, might be a different question.

It's vodka, a drink based on its purity rather than its taste, the difference is in your mind.

Are purity and taste incompatible?

Nope, but I very much doubt that the likes of Eristoff and Grey Goose are no less and no more pure... I'd certainly not argue about most other spirits, but 20 year old vodka will taste no better than last weeks. Its a label question for vodka far more than a taste or purity.

But yes, it does make you wonder what other ones they might have done. But I'd not be bothered if it was just Grey Goose, and announced as official policy. Indeed having any of Smirnoff, Absolut, Eristoff, Russian standard would be fine as a substitute for Grey Goose for me.

Its like being a connoisseur of smarties, though 20 year old ones of those, might be a different question.

On the smarties point, have you perhaps forgotten that the orange ones do in fact taste different, and IMHO, far superior?

Greetings from Los Angeles; to my mind this constitutes a fraudulent activity I.e. passing off one product as another.

Echoing a previous post, if the Grey Goose had run-out, a substitute could have been offered with an apology but not simply passing off a much cheaper brand as the more expensive one.

A second question arises; where did the Eristoff originate. Is this something that is served in PE or Y? If not, how did it get onto the flight as the loading manifests include the alcoholic beverages.

I have, on a number of flights, observed somewhat 'dodgy' practices with bottles of Champagne being 'transferred' to crew travelling as passengers.

As to Los Angeles, I thoroughly recommend Mr C in Beverley Hills as an absolutely fabulous place to stay; Mulberry Street Pizzeria 240 North Cannon Drive, Beverley Hills, y) for a fantastic pizza slice (frequented by Sylvester Stallone, 50 Cent etc. etc.)' the proof was, however, in the eating; the crispy base, cheese, tomatoe topping and anchovies.

Currently waiting for my partner in crime to complete a 'Brazillian'; some kind of cocktail?, before we head to Koreantown for a Korean 'scrub' and spa.

Mulberry Street Pizzeria 240 North Cannon Drive, Beverley Hills, y) for a fantastic pizza slice (frequented by Sylvester Stallone, 50 Cent etc. etc.)' the proof was, however, in the eating; the crispy base, cheese, tomatoe topping and anchovies.

I can concur with that.

Currently waiting for my partner in crime to complete a 'Brazillian'; some kind of cocktail?

Erm nope, not usually ii) , better than a back, sack and crack though!

[Neil]

As you may have noticed this thread has had some posts removed by the moderators.

The OP is free to report and post what they have seen with their own eyes, however posting hearsay, as fact, is not acceptable.

The thread is now open again should anyone wish to continue the discussions based on the original post.

Tbh, did not notice this thread had disappeared although now that it has reappeared would be curious in any actions or reactions from the OP... was the incident reported? any outcome?

Neil

I think due to the nature of the comments you were quite right to remove them. However I believe that VS crew members who commented on this thread should make their employers aware of the allegations as they are very harmful to the reputation of the company especially as they were from someone who works within the industry. Sometimes in big companies practices exist which senior managers are not aware of.

[Decker]

The moderator team have no way of establishing the credentials of a friend of a poster. Therefore we have no way of knowing whether the comment comes from an industry insider or a troll. Given the reaction of the staff posting here, I know where my suspicions lie. I do not think for one second that this is industry policy. Having read "Let's Get Trollied" and "You F'Coffee" I could be persuaded that it was the action of one errant crew member stocking up on the good stuff for an in-room party in their slip but even that is conjecture.

I could be persuaded that it was the action on one errant crew member stocking up on the good stuff for an in-room party in their slip but even that is conjecture.

That was exactly my thought - still highly wrong, if true.

Absolutely agree with the removal, those comments made me very uncomfortable, heresay is one thing, but that crossed a line.

Occams razor here for me. Why would VS put their reputation so much at risk for the sake of a few quid. If indeed this does ever happen it can only be the actions of a rogue/misguided individual or two. Bit like those chaps that set LIBOR. Ahem...

Seriously though, I may be a critic of VS on occasions, but I just don't buy this.

I actually read the comments in question and thought that they weren't believable, but I don't see why they needed to be removed -- particularly as v-flyer claims to be independent of VS. Censorship is insidious. Freedom of speech is an important principle and people should be (and in fact are) free to post libellous drivel and indeed make complete tits of themselves if they want to -- they are responsible for their own actions and can be forced to answer for them if need be. Personally I would rather we argued with, and defeated, nonsense rather than just deleting it.

Just my opinion. Maybe it will be deleted. ):

I really do not think that this was sanctioned by VA. It may well be that this crew member was keeping the premium product for himself. I don't think I will ever know. But I could not let this go without bringing it to the attention of Head Office.

Below is my letter to VA, followed by their reply. I can't say I'm very impressed with the reply and I'm still not sure if I should just leave it here.

Either way, this is the correspondence so far. (I have removed any names).

Virgin Atlantic - Customer Relations
The Office
Manor Royal
Crawley
RH10 9QH
UK

19/01/2013

Dear Sirs,

Re: Dishonest practice and poor Customer Service aboard VS19

Together with three colleagues, I flew on board the VS19 from London Heathrow Airport to San Francisco International Airport on 9th January 2013. We were all accommodated in Upper Class. I was in suite 24A. On the whole, the flight was enjoyable, and before setting out my reasons for complaint, I must commend one member of the Cabin Crew for his polite and helpful manner. I believe he was called *****.

As is customary on board the flight, we enjoyed a few drinks at the bar. ***** was serving us at this time. My drink of choice, and that of my colleagues, was Grey Goose vodka and coke. After a short time, we were informed by ***** that there was no more Grey Goose vodka available on board. I was surprised at this announcement. He had been pouring from a bottle that appeared only half full at take-off. I queried why another bottle was not in stock in the Upper Class bar. The question was posed to the Cabin Service Supervisor, ***** and in response, he opened the locker below the bar and produced a full bottle of Grey Goose. I noted, however, that the seal around the rim had previously been removed - a matter which I remarked upon to *****.

A short time later, I used the toilet at the front of the cabin. Upon exiting the toilet and looking towards the galley, I clearly observed the Cabin Service Supervisor, *****, filling the empty Grey Goose vodka bottle with Eristoff vodka. You can perhaps imagine my surprise! Not only does such activity fall profoundly beneath the level of service and quality expected of Virgin Atlantic Airways, it is completely illegal and fraudulent. I am not aware whether you have CCTV covering the galleys on board your aircraft. If you have, I would urge you to review it.

As a Flying Club Gold Card holder for several years, I am frankly disgusted to think Virgin Atlantic Airways – or at least an employee of the company - would be operating such fraudulent practices. Personally and professionally, as my flying record shows, Virgin Atlantic has been my airline of choice in recent years. I have come to expect an honest, reliable and professional service. The last thing I expect is unlawful activity and unethical practice. While such deceitful practices tarnish the airline as a whole across all tiers of travel, when travelling in your Upper Class cabin, my colleagues and I do so at significantly greater expense in expectation of a significantly higher quality of travel and service. On this occasion at least, those expectations were very greatly undermined.

I would appreciate your response and await a full explanation. In the interim, notwithstanding that I have several more transatlantic flights to take throughout 2013, I am afraid that the incident has caused me to reconsider my continued loyalty to your company.

Yours sincerely

And the response:

07 February 2013


Dear *****

Thank you for taking the time to contact us, following your recent flight to San Francisco.

It is upsetting to hear about the contrasting crew members you came into contact with on this flight. This is certainly not the experience we want our passengers to have. It would appear that you feel very let down at the moment.

It is very concerning to read about the event you witnessed with the bottled vodka on board this flight. Unfortunately, we do sometimes run out of some certain drinks because there’s only limited space on our planes to store everything. However, we would expect our crew to advise you appropriately and offer you an alternative.

As you know, we usually offer the highest levels of service and it’s such a shame that this wasn’t your experience. Our staff represent the brand we’re known for, so we’ve given them the best training there is. We expect them to be attentive, trustworthy and professional in their approach at all times. One of our main priorities is to deliver exceptional customer service at all times. It’s disappointing to read when this doesn’t happen.

We are very much aware that all an airline has to sell is "service" and we are continually striving to offer the highest standard possible. We go to considerable lengths to train our staff in all aspects of customer care and I am concerned by the poor impression you have gained with this individual.

To make sure we do something about this, I've passed your comments to our cabin crew management department. They'll take this up with *****, as they are in an ideal position to remind him of the high standards we, and our passengers expect.

If the manager decides that disciplinary action is needed, that will be a matter between them and the human resources department. I want to assure you though we take this extremely seriously.
We always put all passenger feedback to good use, sometimes this is through simple reporting of a passenger’s opinion so that it can be used in future designs etc. With regard to customer service however, this is something we can alter straight away and will do so as it has a huge reflection on us as a company.

On a brighter note, I am happy to know that you were pleased with the service provided by *****. Thank you for bringing this to our notice; I have passed this on to his manager.

As a loyal Gold cardholder, I do hope that you will accept my sincere apologies for the poor impression we have left you with. I am confident that we are capable of delivering the level of service you have every reason to expect, and given the privilege of serving you and your colleagues in the future, we will do our best to ensure that any travel is without incident or disappointment of any kind.

Kind regards

[Decker]

As has been pointed out on multiple occasions there is no right of freedom of speech in a privately owned forum. The person who posted the libellous information is perfectly entitled to create their own forum to propagate it there. There is also the slightly obvious legal point that someone publishing libellous information can be joined or acted against separately in any libel action. It therefore behoves any publisher in any medium not to permit the publishing of libellous information.

Well I am sorry but such an inept sweep it under the carpet reply does nothing but add credence to the removed comments. The response almost leaves me speechless. v( v(

[Decker]

Please explain your logic here? How do you justify your assertion? The libellous post made an claim which this letter flatly contradicts stating that it is VS policy to advise the pax that that product has run out. Further they say "To make sure we do something about this, I've passed your comments to our cabin crew management department. ". Now in my books "making sure we do something about this" is not sweeping it under the carpet.

As has been pointed out on multiple occasions there is no right of freedom of speech in a privately owned forum. The person who posted the libellous information is perfectly entitled to create their own forum to propagate it there. There is also the slightly obvious legal point that someone publishing libellous information can be joined or acted against separately in any libel action. It therefore behoves any publisher in any medium not to permit the publishing of libellous information.

1. With respect, Decker, I didn't say there was or is any such 'right'. I just offered an opinion (mine) that the principle is an important one. I stand by my opinion.
2. I am curious as to how you have decided the material is 'libellous'? Isn't that a matter for a court?

The response letter des not at any time refer to the OP allegation refilling bottles with a cheaper product, but talks about running out. I cannot speak for the OP but from his last post but he appears also to be underwhelmed by the response. This is not a re- training issue unless VS has started to employ morons. Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows its false representation to represent the cheap Vodka as Greygoose. I would have expected a full disciplinary investigation with someone from VS talking personally with the OP and the two colleagues who were also on the flight. On a lighter note are we sure is beef in the burgers

My apologies the response does refer to he event with the bottle but I still would have expected a full investigation in view of the possible criminal activity alleged

[Decker]

Thanks Paul I was about to quote the paragraph on that one. The issue from my perspective is that the paragraph is badly written and on a quick read conflates the two issues. I suspect the criminal activity taking place was more likely stealing from the company for which internal investigation and discipline seems appropriate?

To suggest that a commercial organisation undertakes fraudulent activity for pecuniary gain or any reason other than accidental and encourages its employees to do so is libellous unless there is proof. It does not require a court hearing. It is for the OP to prove that the statement is NOT libellous not for us to prove that it is. I do not believe that you are alone in your belief that free speech ought to be protected. But free speech is not the sole determinant.

I would hope that having received a serious and detailed complaint that VS will do as they say and formerly investigate the matter. However, Employment law is complicated and VS will want to be seen to be unbiased before starting down a route that could potentially lead to disciplinary action.

Never thought for a minute that VS would sanction such practise Senior management nowadays seem to be out of the loop when it comes to cabin crew service delivery. This seems to be the point most often discussed on trip reports. Perhaps as mentioned in the thread on why people are leaving VS,standards have dropped since SRB stopped being so involved with VS . I remember the good old days when a call to SRBs PA sorted matters amicably

[Decker]

My apologies - I forgot my @s - that was two responses

I suspect it was my last post that caused offence. For that, I unreservedly apologise; it was never my intention to cause offence, merely to contribute to the discussion.

The comment I made was indeed hearsay, and although I trust implicitly the person who told me, and who did leave VS for good, positive reasons (they have no axe to grind) I accept the decision to take my post away, and I will not refer to this matter again.

Once again, my apologies.

S