The ex Amsterdam trick

Just researching ex-AMS options for VS UC flights to EWR, returning from LAS, am using Expedia for these quotes. Cost if booked normally ex LHR is just over £3K per person for Z fare tickets LHR-EWR & LAS-LGW. As many of us know routing ex AMS saves £££, for my dates (this Sept) over £1K per person.

Now here's the interesting thing, I replaced AMS with BRU and up popped an even lower fare! Only marginally but this time the VS fare code was 'I' both ways meaning it qualifies for CDC. Just odd that you only get an I ex BRU and not AMS?

Thanks
James

It's a deal for sure...but...what use is a CDC if you are transferring only from(say)terminal 5 to terminal 3?
Or maybe you are just pointing out the stupid differences in prices and benefits?

BTW..I totally agree with the AMS trick...I use it often. ): ):

I think (though I may be wrong) that AA had some great ex-BRU fares recently and it may be that VS is matching. That doesn't really explain the CDC aspect, though, but that may be just a fluke -- I think OW discount J fares book into I class.

It's a deal for sure...but...what use is a CDC if you are transferring only from(say)terminal 5 to terminal 3?

Probably more value at your destination

Cheers
Michael

It's a deal for sure...but...what use is a CDC if you are transferring only from(say)terminal 5 to terminal 3?

Probably more value at your destination

Cheers
Michael

Three out of the four CDC's (ie. at EWR, LAS & LGW) would be invaluable, especially the one on return to get us from airport to home. Accepted, the one on arrival at LHR from BRU at the outset is of no use.

Thanks
James

[Neil]

Three out of the four CDC's (ie. at EWR, LAS & LGW) would be invaluable, especially the one on return to get us from airport to home. Accepted, the one on arrival at LHR from BRU at the outset is of no use.

Thanks
James

Would you get to use the last one? Surely if your flight is ticketed from/to AMS (or BRU), even though you know you won't use the London to AMS last portion of the ticket, the CDC would have to be booked in the country that your flight journey is due to and and not able to be used as a journey in the UK?

That's a good point - and may explain the fare code, since a CDC to/from AMS or BRU isn't an option (so far as I'm aware?).

Three out of the four CDC's (ie. at EWR, LAS & LGW) would be invaluable, especially the one on return to get us from airport to home. Accepted, the one on arrival at LHR from BRU at the outset is of no use.

I'd not really say the LAS one was invaluable, unless you are living far away from LAS, or perhaps downtown...

That's a good point - and may explain the fare code, since a CDC to/from AMS or BRU isn't an option (so far as I'm aware?).

One of the allowable permutations when looking at the AMS/BRU options is to have it such that you 'overnight' on your return. Basically the flight from LHR/LGW to AMS/BRU is the following day >>

Las Vegas (LAS) to London (LGW)
Virgin Atlantic 44
Business Class (I), Boeing 747-400
Depart 16:40 Arrive 10:30 +1 day
Duration: 9h 50m

Stopover: 20h 10m

London (LHR) to Brussels (BRU)
British Airways 388
Business Class ( D), Airbus A319
Depart 06:40 Arrive 08:50
Duration: 1h 10m

So, even if in reality I wanted to use that final portion of the ticket, I would still need to go home on arrival - or to anywhere that I choose to spend the night. As I'm inbound to London on a VS 'I' fare surely VS could not deny me the CDC

Thanks
James

[Neil]

So, even if in reality I wanted to use that final portion of the ticket, I would still need to go home on arrival - or to anywhere that I choose to spend the night. As I'm inbound to London on a VS 'I' fare surely VS could not deny me the CDC

Thanks
James

I wouldn't be so sure. The wording on the VS website is "If you are flying Upper Class, you can pre-book a range of transport options to whisk you to and from the airport at both ends of your journey " so technically just because you have chosen to have a stop over in London overnight, it isn't the end of your journey and you are still expected to take the final leg of your journey so I imagine VS have no obligation to allow you to use a CDC while you are in London.

Actually that's an interesting point James.

I my view you could certainly demand a CDC to get you to LHR from LGW so why not home for your 'stop over' ?

[Neil]

Actually that's an interesting point James.

I my view you could certainly demand a CDC to get you to LHR from LGW so why not home for your 'stop over' ?

I don't see why you could demand one from LGW to LHR? The CDC is offered to get you to/from the departure and arrival airport/destination. The fact you have booked a flight that has a connection between LGW/LHR is your choice and not something VS forced you to do, so why should they provide a CDC to cover it? They *might* allow you to use one of your legs for that journey, but it is by no means a certainty.

I see what you're saying Neil but I'm not wanting to go to LHR at that point as I've been ticketed as a day & night long layover so surely it's up to me where I go to spend my night? Remember we are talking about arriving at Gatwick at 10:30 in the morning and then having all the rest of that day and the whole of that night before the next flight.

There's no rule surely that states I have to go to an airport hotel near Heathrow the moment I arrive? All I'm wanting to do is utilise the CDC that is offered on an I fare to take me to my chosen destination on arrival. In my case that would be a place 20 miles form LGW (that happens to be my home!)which is half the distance of going to LHR.

Thanks
James

[Neil]

I see what you're saying Neil but I'm not wanting to go to LHR at that point as I've been ticketed as a day & night long layover so surely it's up to me where I go to spend my night? Remember we are talking about arriving at Gatwick at 10:30 in the morning and then having all the rest of that day and the whole of that night before the next flight.

There's no rule surely that states I have to go to an airport hotel near Heathrow the moment I arrive? All I'm wanting to do is utilise the CDC that is offered on an I fare to take me to my chosen destination on arrival. In my case that would be a place 20 miles form LGW (that happens to be my home!)which is half the distance of going to LHR.

Thanks
James

Honestly James, I don't know the answer as it is a unique situation.

The thing that I think could cause you a problem is that London is not your final destination (well it is, but it shouldn't be as per the ticket), that is let's say AMS. So you are meant to get the CDC when you arrive in AMS. You technically have no CDC available to you when you arrive in London. Now if you can persuade VS to let you have it in London instead of AMS then I'm sure you could get it to take you wherever you wanted, the tricky bit I see, could be getting VS to let you have one in London in the first place.

There's no rule surely that states I have to go to an airport hotel near Heathrow the moment I arrive? All I'm wanting to do is utilise the CDC that is offered on an I fare to take me to my chosen destination on arrival. In my case that would be a place 20 miles form LGW (that happens to be my home!)which is half the distance of going to LHR.

But if you do that (assuming for a moment that you can) are you not making it pretty obvious to VS that you are throwing away the final sector, which (I assume) will not be permissible under the ticketing conditions and could spoil the ex-EU trick...

I wouldn't be so sure. The wording on the VS website is "If you are flying Upper Class, you can pre-book a range of transport options to whisk you to and from the airport at both ends of your journey " so technically just because you have chosen to have a stop over in London overnight, it isn't the end of your journey and you are still expected to take the final leg of your journey so I imagine VS have no obligation to allow you to use a CDC while you are in London.

Sorry, I disagree Neil. You pulled that clause from the VS website, fair enough.. Why would VS provided a CDC from AMS or BRU airports to your "home" when they don't fly there and also you are booking through a third party site??

By the strictest interpretation of the rules here you are entitled to the CDC from *your location within the range* to the VS flight at both ends and then from VS flight to *your location within the range* i.e to LHR, from EWR, to LAS and from LGW.

Talk about overcomplicated VS

But if you do that (assuming for a moment that you can) are you not making it pretty obvious to VS that you are throwing away the final sector, which (I assume) will not be permissible under the ticketing conditions and could spoil the ex-EU trick...

Would having a 'stopover' in London get around this? It would justify why you are not checking your bags all the way through to AMS or BRU in the first place which may very well be a screaming clue to the airline

[Neil]

But if you do that (assuming for a moment that you can) are you not making it pretty obvious to VS that you are throwing away the final sector, which (I assume) will not be permissible under the ticketing conditions and could spoil the ex-EU trick...

Well James wouldn't have to tell VS that was his home, and in any case he might have a place in AMS also, so that isn't so much an issue.

But, it is very important that he doesn't give any indication that he is not planning on taking the final sector as that will be against the rules attached to the fare, and while it is very unlikely that the airline would take any action before the flight, bringing it to their attention before hand is not a good idea.

Would having a 'stopover' in London get around this? It would justify why you are not checking your bags all the way through to AMS or BRU in the first place which may very well be a screaming clue to the airline

They are having a stoppver in london and as they arrive at LGW and scheduled to depart to BRU from LHR their bags can't be checked through anyway.

[Neil]

Sorry, I disagree Neil. You pulled that clause from the VS website, fair enough.. Why would VS provided a CDC from AMS or BRU airports to your "home" when they don't fly there and also you are booking through a third party site??

By the strictest interpretation of the rules here you are entitled to the CDC from *your location within the range* to the VS flight at both ends and then from VS flight to *your location within the range* i.e to LHR, from EWR, to LAS and from LGW.

That's a good/interesting point that I hadn't really thought about.
I was assuming the flights would all be ticketed under one PNR by VS but if they aren't, and because it is booked through a 3rd party site they are ticketed with each airline separately then of course the end destination as far as VS is concerned is LGW so a CDC would be available, and therefore I wouldn't see any issue getting it to any destination.

I'm sure HoneyLamb said she was able to check-in to a VS flight even though her flight from AMS to LHR was on BA and that she could do it via the BA version of on-line check-in.

However I am the first to admit I may be totally wrong on that !

I honestly don’t think it would be making it obvious my intention was to throw away the final sector. Surely travelling straight to the next airport is the last thing that anyone would do given they have a whole day and night to kill!? My reckoning is that many people may intentionally book such an itinerary specifically, for example, to go and visit Aunty Flo in the spare 24 hours. As far as luggage goes the security rules would dis-allow a check through due to change of airport so I’d have to collect luggage regardless.

Picking up on your point Neil, I get what you say about the rules stating technically that the CDC entitlement is at the very end point of the journey, but I thought VS only offer CDC’s at places they fly to, so surely the only place they can offer me a CDC is in London? Or am I wrong and they do have limo arrangements in all the cities they ticket to such as Brussels?

This has turned into an interesting debate!

[Neil]

Picking up on your point Neil, I get what you say about the rules stating technically that the CDC entitlement is at the very end point of the journey, but I thought VS only offer CDC’s at places they fly to, so surely the only place they can offer me a CDC is in London? Or am I wrong and they do have limo arrangements in all the cities they ticket to such as Brussels?

This has turned into an interesting debate!

It has, and I guess the only way we will ever know is if you ask VS.
I imagine, you could be correct about them only offering CDC's at airports they fly to, but I think it will more come down to how the flight is ticketed and by who. Maybe VS could try and get out of giving you CDC at all for the return if they have ticketed the whole journey and can't offer a CDC in AMS, or maybe they won't have a clue you have another onward sector at all and it won't be an issue.

While some people who book (eg) Brussels-London-USA-London-Brussels do it simply to take advantage of the lower fares, presumably the majority do it perfectly legitimately because they need to travel between Brussels and the USA using London as a hub.

And there's every possibility that some of them will need to break their journey in London for a business meeting or whatever - in which case, if they're buying an UC ticket that allows it, surely they're entitled to a CDC in London.

The fact that London isn't (as far as VS is concerned) their final destination is irrelevant - as a fully paid-up VS UC passenger surely they're entitled to the CDC at the start and end of both VS flights if their fare code permits it?

An interesting debate indeed!

[preiffer]

Been there - done that (literally).

You will NOT get the final sector CDC as it's not your final destination. You can play VS at the "game", but they can also play by the rules... (Regardless of the I fare)

Been there - done that (literally).

You will NOT get the final sector CDC as it's not your final destination. You can play VS at the "game", but they can also play by the rules... (Regardless of the I fare)

Paul, so if AMS (or any other city that VS themselves don't fly to) is someone's actual final destination, VS are then happy to lay on a CDC in that city? They have CDC arrangements in all these cities?