EC compensation rights on delayed flights?

Hi
THe VS 15 has been delayed to 1pm tomorrow im currently checking into the hilton. The reason given is the pilot went sick this morning, does anyone know if its worth persuing compensation under EU regulations as they failed to have a backup? Or would this be regarded as an extraordinary event?

Virgin will 99.9% likely claim that this is an extraordinary event and reject your claim up front.

However, the fact that they are flying you from Gatwick (a home base) means I'm extremely surprised that they couldn't rouse another member of flight crew from standby in order to operate the flight. This is clearly entirely within their control.

That's the angle I would pursue for EU261 compensation. Be warned though, I'm almost certain that this is uncharted legal territory and you may have to go to the small claims court.

Out of interest, what is the compensation they are offering?

Hi

There has been no offer of compensation apart from a £15 meal voucher and a night in the gatwick hilton tonight. Should I ask for compensation? I dont want to come accross as a person out to get all he can, in fairness the groundstaff here have been good so far

Hi

There has been no offer of compensation apart from a £15 meal voucher and a night in the gatwick hilton tonight. Should I ask for compensation? I dont want to come accross as a person out to get all he can, in fairness the groundstaff here have been good so far

Well if I was losing a day of my hard earned holiday I'd be wanting compensation.

I might be wrong but I think it's standard practice for a letter to be given to all passengers with an offer of compensation in these circumstances.

Have VS given a valid reason as to why they didn't manage to summon another captain from standby at one of their home bases?

No reason given. No offer of compensation been told to contact insurance company

I think that's very poor indeed.

It'll be interesting to see what other V-Flyers have to say on this subject.

My daughter is stuck in Orlando. They said they will put her up at an airport hotel.
Can anyone advise on what she does when back at LGW. Virgin say they will not pay for her transport home. I think that is very unfair, but they are the rules!
I was going to pick her up tomorrow but I am in NYC on Monday so she has to get a taxi home (£100).
Should Virgin pay or have they met their responsibilities when they get her to LGW?

Thanks

Gerry

No reason given. No offer of compensation been told to contact insurance company

Ha ha ha ha..... will be the response from insurance company

Bounce it back to Virgin, their fault for not having a capt on standby.. def weird given how close they are to home. Are they seriously saying there was not an off duty captain in London or the Home Counties who could fill in?? How odd.

In my view, I would say it is not an extraordinary event as it is the responsibility of the airline to ensure they have safeguards in place in case of people going sick. Your contract is with them and they have failed to fulfil it pure and simple... I would ask for compensation for lost time on holiday and to reimburse any reasonable costs that you accumulate as a result.

Cheeky of them to say first port of call talk to insurance company, clearly trying to pass the buck v(

but they are the rules!

Did they say which rules? The ones they just made up perhaps

As I said above, it is the airline's responsibility to fulfil their part of the deal and to offer alternatives or compensation should they fail..

Don't take the first fob off answer that they give, it may take a couple of letters but you guys should get something for the inconvenience of something that is within the airline's control.

Good luck 8D

Edit: Gerry, what else has your daughter been offered? You just mention the night's stay in your post.

Yeah that was my thoughts. In fairness here the agents are all swissport and I don't think they really know what to say, so contact your insurance is the easiest reply. I assume I can take this up with virgin when I get home, I personally believe they should have been able to find a pilot so I feel I got a valid claim. If anyone thinks different I would really vale your input as to why.

Thanks

Should Virgin pay or have they met their responsibilities when they get her to LGW?

They have met their responsibilities once she arrives at LGW (different if she had an onward flight on the same PNR though)

But she is entitled to EU 261 compensation - just as Gavin is.

VS could make the case that a sick pilot is an 'extraordinary circumstance' but given that it is their home base they should have a pilot on call (after all they have cabin crew on-call to work at a few hours notice so why not a pilot?) and so a refusal to pay is harder for them to justify in this case.

Just write them a simple letter outlining what happened and that you are claiming compensation under EU261 and wait for their formal response. If they refuse then you can take them to the small claims court and let a judge adjudicate !

You will not get compensation for a lost day of a holiday but for the flight delay

Should Virgin pay or have they met their responsibilities when they get her to LGW?

They have met their responsibilities once she arrives at LGW (different if she had an onward flight on the same PNR though)

But she is entitled to EU 261 compensation - just as Gavin is.

VS could make the case that a sick pilot is an 'extraordinary circumstance' but given that it is their home base they should have a pilot on call (after all they have cabin crew on-call to work at a few hours notice so why not a pilot?) and so a refusal to pay is harder for them to justify in this case.

Just write them a simple letter outlining what happened and that you are claiming compensation under EU261 and wait for their formal response. If they refuse then you can take them to the small claims court and let a judge adjudicate !

You will not get compensation for a lost day of a holiday but for the flight delay

tontybear - thanks for setting this out, I agree with this and top be honest I thought as much myself.

EU261 compensation is going to be Euro600 per passenger on a flight this long. Not enough to make up for a lost day of holiday but not to be sniffed at either.

If you say there are 2 x 400 passengers who are delayed 24 hours due to this, that's a total of £480,000 in EU compensation Virgin may be required to pay out, so it's easy to see why they'd be looking to fudge the issue.

My daughter is stuck in Orlando. They said they will put her up at an airport hotel.
Can anyone advise on what she does when back at LGW. Virgin say they will not pay for her transport home. I think that is very unfair, but they are the rules!
I was going to pick her up tomorrow but I am in NYC on Monday so she has to get a taxi home (£100).
Should Virgin pay or have they met their responsibilities when they get her to LGW?

Thanks

Gerry

I'm with VS on that one I'm afraid. The cost of getting to and from the airport is the passenger's responsibility. The only exception would be if your daughter had already paid for her onward transport and been left out of pocket because she couldn't get a full refund (eg an advance train ticket). But as she hasn't, she doesn't have a case.

(Even if she did, if I were VS I'd question whether she HAD to get a £100 taxi when presumably a bus or train would get her most of the way home for a lot less).

As for compensation for the actual delay, however, I absolutely agree with others that VS should pay up. Staff sickness is definitely not an extraordinary circumstance - it happens to every large employer on a daily basis and it's something VS should have a contingency plan for when it's one of their home bases.

My daughter is stuck in Orlando. They said they will put her up at an airport hotel.
Can anyone advise on what she does when back at LGW. Virgin say they will not pay for her transport home. I think that is very unfair, but they are the rules!
I was going to pick her up tomorrow but I am in NYC on Monday so she has to get a taxi home (£100).
Should Virgin pay or have they met their responsibilities when they get her to LGW?

Thanks

Gerry

I'm with VS on that one I'm afraid. The cost of getting to and from the airport is the passenger's responsibility. The only exception would be if your daughter had already paid for her onward transport and been left out of pocket because she couldn't get a full refund (eg an advance train ticket). But as she hasn't, she doesn't have a case.

(Even if she did, if I were VS I'd question whether she HAD to get a £100 taxi when presumably a bus or train would get her most of the way home for a lot less).

As for compensation for the actual delay, however, I absolutely agree with others that VS should pay up. Staff sickness is definitely not an extraordinary circumstance - it happens to every large employer on a daily basis and it's something VS should have a contingency plan for when it's one of their home bases.

Unfortunately you are not with Virgin on this. I called them again and they agreed that I could claim the taxi fare back. It is an expense that would not be incurred if the plane was on time, simple as that really.

The key is here is not to accept the first answer!

I don't know if my AU card has anything to do with it but when I said I was a gold card member and wondered if I could use my miles to book a Tristar car, the attitude seem to chang and I was put through to a Manager who gave the go-ahead for compensation!

[Neil]

I hope you've for something in writing from them incase they try and suggest otherwise when you send the claim in.

I hope you've for something in writing from them incase they try and suggest otherwise when you send the claim in.

I though that, which is why I asked them to email me with the details, I have just got that email!


Cheers

Gerry

Just thought I would update, was given a voucher with details on how to claim 12500 miles each at the gate. Assume if I took this it would wave my rights to claim compensation? Also the cabin crew let slip that the pilot was not sick he just did not turn up seems very odd!

[Neil]

Just thought I would update, was given a voucher with details on how to claim 12500 miles each at the gate. Assume if I took this it would wave my rights to claim compensation? Also the cabin crew let slip that the pilot was not sick he just did not turn up seems very odd!

No. If Virgin are offering you compensation for the delay and you should accept it.
If you are entitled to compensation under the EU regulations (which personally I don't think you will be) then your accepting of the miles will have no impact on that whatsoever.

Assume if I took this it would wave my rights to claim compensation?

You assume incorrectly, you are still entitled to compensation - only way to get round this would be for them to give you a specific waiver form to sign... even still you could probably argue you were under duress to sign or risk being denied boarding

I disagree with Neil on this Gavin (I know, shocker ) I think that some form of compensation should be offered given the cause of the delay was fully within the control of the airline and an eventuality that should be covered in a plan B scenario.

I can understand why VS told people the pilot was out sick.. def more of a comforting reason than 'the pilot is missing' ?|

Hope he turns up 8D

I disagree Neil - a pilot being sick or not simply turning up for work at their home bases is an issue that VS should have contingency for. People do get sick and sometimes forget that they are rostered for duty "I thought I was due to fly tomorrow not today" but those are foreseable events that VS should have contingencies for.

If VS has cabin crew on standby to work at 2-3 hours notice then the same should apply to pilots.

This article in last Saturday's Guardian makes clear that

Last October the European Court of Justice ruled that delays caused by events such as lack of flight crew or even technical faults, merited compensation.

That has since been confirmed in the UK by a judge in Staffordshire, who awarded a couple £680 after their Thomas Cook flight home from Tenerife was delayed by 22 hours.

And this has more details from UK judgement from last week.

Gavin may have to persue this (he can do this on his own he dosen't need a lawyer) but I honestly believe he has a strong case for EU261 compensation.

[Neil]

I guess only time will tell and will ultimately depend on the true reason for the flight being delayed and why Virgin couldn't find an alternative pilot.

It certainly is worth pursuing, I have just seen many similar cases thrown out by the airlines and courts, because ultimately the airline can prove it was, or would have led to exceptional circumstances.

If VS does have to compensate, I should imagine that pilot will be in for a wrist slapping. I do agree with Tonty, as you point out these are events that should be under the airline's control. As for incidental expenses, these should also be covered where reasonable per the guidelines.

I agree with what has already been said by most people -- staff absence, whether through sickness or otherwise, really does not strike me as an extraordinary circumstance, and an airline should be able to deal with it at a home base. So I would pursue the compensation.

could / should they not have offered alternative flights with alternative carriers - i.e. getting as many people onto the BA flight as possible (not to sure when that departs though)? I thought EU261 gave that as an alternative?

I am sure I have read on FlyerTalk of people 'demanding' to be put on x flight in this sort of situation (same cabin etc) and this being acceded to.

I see that VS15/16 have been delayed overnight again today. Currently expected to depart at 1600 tomorrow.