B777 crash at SFO

Scary stuff
So the tail clipped the runway on landing?

Nobody knows for certain, it is far to early to say for certain, and it will be a while before anything is confirmed.
Right now it is only eye witness reports and 'experts' opinions and thoughts.

Yes you are right about that
I have read two conflicting reports and this
1 as other v-flyers have said it appears to have clipped the seawall
2 it clipped the runway

I wonder if an accident report will be released at some stage?

My first thoughts when I found out it was a 777 was the heathrow crash ,

Yes the NTSB will release a full report but it won't be fior several months as a minimum.

Industry RUMOURS out here in US are that the instrument landing system glideslope was inoperative at the airport and they were flying a visual approach, landing short of the runway.

Latest update is 2 dead and a couple of dozen treated locally. Looks like most were out before the fire took hold of the fuselage.

W.

News conference from sfo says still not everyone accounted for

More than 60 still unaccounted for ,lets hope they are ok

[Darren Wheeler]

VS19 has just landed in LAS.

Flysfo twitter feed advises that 2 runways are now open.

[Scrooge]

From what I have seen, the aircraft was coming in high and fast, then it slows and drops quickly.

Low thrust plus low altitude makes for a bad day, from the pictures I have seen it looks like the undercarriage hit the sea wall, then the tail hits the displaced runway.

Tail comes off and the plane slides to the left of 28L.

It would have been one of heck of a ride for the people in the tail end of the aircraft, it's really amazing that there are only 2 dead so far.

The ILS was not functioning at the time.

[Darren Wheeler]

VS19 touched down at SFO at 19:15 local.

Industry RUMOURS out here in US are that the instrument landing system glideslope was inoperative at the airport and they were flying a visual approach, landing short of the runway.

W.

Shouldn't pilots be able to do visual landings without the assistance of the ILS?
Like the AF tragedy the pilots seemed to be too reliant on the technology.

Shouldn't pilots be able to do visual landings without the assistance of the ILS?
Like the AF tragedy the pilots seemed to be too reliant on the technology.

It's much too early to say that, I think. For all we know, some kind of technical problem may have put the pilots into a difficult situation and their skill alone got the plane to the threshold of the runway. (Think of the BA 777 at LHR.)

I just don't think you can (yet) start pointing fingers.

@at240
That's a good point.
I did perhaps jump the gun a bit.
Let's wait for the NTSB report

Yesterday's VS20 got cancelled, passengers panicked when they saw the crashed plane during taxi. Plane returned to stand and crew ran out of hours!

Shouldn't pilots be able to do visual landings without the assistance of the ILS?
Like the AF tragedy the pilots seemed to be too reliant on the technology.

It's much too early to say that, I think. For all we know, some kind of technical problem may have put the pilots into a difficult situation and their skill alone got the plane to the threshold of the runway. (Think of the BA 777 at LHR.)

I just don't think you can (yet) start pointing fingers.

'Glide Path' has been turned off at SFO since 1st June until 22nd August and was properly notified to the FAA and hence airlines.

I would assume that such info would be part of the standard pilot briefing for any airline using SFO just as weather would be.

See Huffington Post

The problem is that technology like glide path should only be an assistance to pilots whereas it has become indispensable when it should not be.

[Darren Wheeler]

Yesterday's VS20 got cancelled, passengers panicked when they saw the crashed plane during taxi. Plane returned to stand and crew ran out of hours!

According to FB it was a refuelling issue. ?|

There's some interesting updates and pictures from the NTSB on their Twitter.

Sound of stick shaker can be heard on the cockpit voice recorder prior to impact indictating the plane was about to stall. From the flight data recorder the throttle was in idle and airspeed slowed below the target approach speed of 137 knots. Throttle was advanced prior impact and engines responded normally but I guess it was too late.

[Darren Wheeler]

There is a video capturing the moments before landing. It appears to show a plume of water, possibly caused by the landing gear hitting the bay, before a cloud of dust.

Pretty poor quality video but looks to be shot from Milbrae

Usual disclaimer: Nervous flyers should avoid watching.

There are reports that one of the fatalities may have been due them being hit by a rescue vehicle rather than as a direct result of the crash.

Washington Post

Indeed pilots should be able to fly a visual approach without a problem (using the visual light aids for example) but I wonder if as said 'real' flying doesn't happen often enough to ensure the best proficiency at hands on flying.

There is also the issue of spatial disorientation flying the visual approach, especially an over the water approach.

One of the reasons I think the Hudson episode had such a good outcome was because the Captain was recreational pilot too with recent hands on flying.

NB - this is just my thoughts and scenarios in my mind - I am not casting any doubts or blame on the flight crew.

W.

Yesterday's VS20 got cancelled, passengers panicked when they saw the crashed plane during taxi. Plane returned to stand and crew ran out of hours!

According to FB it was a refuelling issue. ?|

Reading the FB posts, it again brings up the issue of VS response to "anomalies". It seems to me that more often than not there is no contingency plan for when things go wrong and there's a shocking lack of information (and in many cases when there is information, it is very often inaccurate).

[Darren Wheeler]

Probably because VS didn't know themselves. Reading the SFO twitter feed even they didn't how long it would take to restore operations. You can only say "we don't know' so many times, and people would complain about that.

The airport was closed,
Airport ops were busy elsewhere.
All the local hotels were full.

At least they tried to get the flight out. Could easily have finished the 19 at LAS.

Sometimes VS do make a pigs ear of these events, as do other airlines but in this case other events overtook them.

Oh, and as for FB, I don't for one second believe that there was no food or drink offered.

For those that might wish a better set of guesses than the media put out before the official reports:
http://flyingprofessors.net/what-happen ... ght-214-2/ gives a good explanation.

FLCH trap, Flight Level CHange is explained here.

Some extraordinary stories of bravery of the crew coming through on Sky News.

To paraphrase "...petite Korean stewardesses, dragging passengers to safety from the plane, then going back inside to get more..."

And from http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/22778 ... ce-on-777s

"Lee [cabin manager] herself worked to put out fires and usher passengers to safety despite a broken tailbone that kept her standing throughout a news briefing with mostly South Korean reporters at a San Francisco hotel."

Some extraordinary stories of bravery of the crew coming through on Sky News.

To paraphrase "...petite Korean stewardesses, dragging passengers to safety from the plane, then going back inside to get more..."

And from http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/22778 ... ce-on-777s

"Lee [cabin manager] herself worked to put out fires and usher passengers to safety despite a broken tailbone that kept her standing throughout a news briefing with mostly South Korean reporters at a San Francisco hotel."

Amazing bravery by the CA. She was simply doing what she was trained to do but still..wow!!

Just a thought but I wonder how many passengers would have been happy to fly with a pilot who had only 37 hours training if they had been informed prior to take off