B777 crash at SFO

"37 hours training" sounds like a daily mail headline - if you're going to criticise a pilot, at least get the facts correct.

Jeez, I loathe this armchair reactionary bs ...

Here's one to chew on: 50% of all pilots are performing below average.

[Neil]

Just a thought but I wonder how many passengers would have been happy to fly with a pilot who had only 37 hours training if they had been informed prior to take off

That statement is not correct.

The pilot, Lee Jung-min, had a total flown of 12,387 hours, of which 3,220 were on a 777, it was the co-pilot, Lee Kang-kuk, that had flown a total of 9,793 hours, only 43 of which were on a 777, and while it appears he was flying the aircraft for the landing it is still the training pilot that is in charge.

It was a very experienced 4 man crew (still not clear if all 4 were in the cockpit during landing), and the co-pilot, while not experience on this a/c type, was still an experienced member of the flight deck and had flown in to SFO 29 times before.

Neil

Just a thought but I wonder how many passengers would have been happy to fly with a pilot who had only 37 hours training if they had been informed prior to take off

Would you get on a bus if the driver said they'd only has XX hours of training.

Ditto a tube or train driver?

Get into a taxi if it was the drivers first ever trip?

what about being operated on by a new surgeon?

What if the pilots had done loads of 777 hours but it was the first flight for the cabin crew?

what about getting on an A380 or B787. There are not a lot of pilots who have done thousands of hours on those are they yet I don't see anyone refusing to fly on them.

Just a thought but I wonder how many passengers would have been happy to fly with a pilot who had only 37 hours training if they had been informed prior to take off

I would! That's 37 hours more than me.
But not women pilots, I'm all for equality but safety first!

With apologies to Viz Comic.

I would! That's 37 hours more than me.
But not women pilots, I'm all for equality but safety first!

With apologies to Viz Comic.

Ouch lol

Would you get on a bus if the driver said they'd only has XX hours of training.

Ditto a tube or train driver?

Get into a taxi if it was the drivers first ever trip?

what about being operated on by a new surgeon?

What if the pilots had done loads of 777 hours but it was the first flight for the cabin crew?

what about getting on an A380 or B787. There are not a lot of pilots who have done thousands of hours on those are they yet I don't see anyone refusing to fly on them.

Good point, at some point all have 0 hours!

New Tube drivers can be driving for first time with a full train of 1000 passengers onboard (more than any current aircraft!). But just like the asiana 777, there will be someone who has more experience and is qualified to train up new drivers.

Just a thought but I wonder how many passengers would have been happy to fly with a pilot who had only 37 hours training if they had been informed prior to take off

Only 37hrs on type.
Many 1000s of hours flying other large aircraft including 747 plus sim. and ground training to convert.

How many people gaily step into a hire car with absolutely no "training" whatsoever.
Probably without even looking at the manual.
Yet immediately driving in heavy traffic on roads they do not know.
How often when first driving a strange car do you use the wrong control lever? Especially going between Merc. & BM B)

There certainly are risks converting between types but that is why the training captain is sitting alongside.

I wonder if its going to get easier to get seats on those first flights when airlines get new types of aircraft? ):

I wonder if its going to get easier to get seats on those first flights when airlines get new types of aircraft? ):

Well there are pages and pages and pages on the BA flyer talk thread about the test flights for the A380 and B787 full of people wanting to be on them.

And complaining that what they thought was the first is now not because BA changed the schedule to start them earlier.

The vast majority of people simply do not care about this sort of thing yet the media whip up a frenzy.

Would you get on a bus if the driver said they'd only has XX hours of training.

Ditto a tube or train driver?

Get into a taxi if it was the drivers first ever trip?

what about being operated on by a new surgeon?

What if the pilots had done loads of 777 hours but it was the first flight for the cabin crew?

what about getting on an A380 or B787. There are not a lot of pilots who have done thousands of hours on those are they yet I don't see anyone refusing to fly on them.

Good point, at some point all have 0 hours!

New Tube drivers can be driving for first time with a full train of 1000 passengers onboard (more than any current aircraft!). But just like the asiana 777, there will be someone who has more experience and is qualified to train up new drivers.

This is true, all our Tube Train Operators go through rules and regs, rolling stock knowledge, defect handling and basic operating principle courses before they are allowed in the front of one of our trains with an Instructor operator to ensure all goes well and assess their progress.

Would you get on a bus if the driver said they'd only has XX hours of training.

Ditto a tube or train driver?

Get into a taxi if it was the drivers first ever trip?

what about being operated on by a new surgeon?

What if the pilots had done loads of 777 hours but it was the first flight for the cabin crew?

what about getting on an A380 or B787. There are not a lot of pilots who have done thousands of hours on those are they yet I don't see anyone refusing to fly on them.

Good point, at some point all have 0 hours!

New Tube drivers can be driving for first time with a full train of 1000 passengers onboard (more than any current aircraft!). But just like the asiana 777, there will be someone who has more experience and is qualified to train up new drivers.

This is true, all our Tube Train Operators go through rules and regs, rolling stock knowledge, defect handling and basic operating principle courses before they are allowed in the front of one of our trains with an Instructor operator to ensure all goes well and assess their progress.

And would they still have an Instructor operator whenever they changed over to a different model of train?

And would they still have an Instructor operator whenever they changed over to a different model of train?

Yes they would, and new stock training for that model

And would they still have an Instructor operator whenever they changed over to a different model of train?

Yes they would, and new stock training for that model

As Hamster says yes they do.

We have recently undergone a Rolling Stock replacement from A60 to S8 Rolling Stock on the Metropolitan Line and are in the process of introducing the S7 version across the remainder of the Sub Surface Railway (Hammersmith and City, Circle and District lines) hence the mixed Stock currently on the Hammersmith and City line.

Each Operator has undergone a new Stock Familiarisation course and spend several shifts at the Handle with an Instructor Operator before being deemed competent to operate the Stock alone.

Also Train Operators on LU get training when new operating procedures are introduced, like currently on the Northern Line they are introducing Automatic Train Control, so drivers are released to do the extra necessary training.

The amount of training for any operational role is immense, as it would be for all Flight and Cabin Crew.

Am I right In thinking that tube drivers are line specific trained just as bus and train drivers are route specific trained ?

A friend of mine is a bus driver and he is only trained for a small number of routes.

However are pilots route / airport trained in the same way or are they allocated based on their type training and certification ?

Am I right In thinking that tube drivers are line specific trained just as bus and train drivers are route specific trained ?

Yes, Train Operators are line specific. There are some Test Train Operators that can drive on the whole network, doing some very strange manoeuvres! Obviously they are trained on all the stocks, routes and connections.

Not too sure about Pilots being route specific?

Not too sure about Pilots being route specific?

I would have thought that they would at some point do route specific training

I would have thought that they would at some point do route specific training

Oh yes I'm sure they would. Plus the approaches to different airports.

Am I right In thinking that tube drivers are line specific trained just as bus and train drivers are route specific trained ?

Yes, Train Operators are line specific. There are some Test Train Operators that can drive on the whole network, doing some very strange manoeuvres! Obviously they are trained on all the stocks, routes and connections.

Not too sure about Pilots being route specific?

All passenger Train operators are Depot / Line specific.

Test Train operators are familiar with all Lines and Stock.

Engineers Train operators are the one who do most of the strange moves usually during Engineering Hours they all originate from Ruislip Depot and can make their way to any point on the network as all the lines (with the exception of the Waterloo and City line) meet up at key locations.

they all originate from Ruislip Depot

Don't I know it! lol )

they all originate from Ruislip Depot

Don't I know it! lol )

You on the Tube too then?

You on the Tube too then?

Yup, for my sins.

Back on topic...

I'm impressed with the NTSBs use of Twitter. It has some interesting snippets that most new sites will leave out.

I would have thought that they would at some point do route specific training

Oh yes I'm sure they would. Plus the approaches to different airports.

Oh true. HKG must be a bit of a tricky one?
Or was that the old one

Not sure if this is accurate or not, but interesting all the same.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1396882603859485

Third person now died. Confirmed one of the dead was found laying in fire fighting foam after being hit by responding ire truck (cause of death not known yet ie crash or the fire truck).

This has gone viral over here...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=563_1373664708

W.

The death has been confirmed following post mortem as being caused by the unfortunate girl being hit by a fire truck.

Possible that she was covered by the fire retardant foam so they may not have seen her.

Chicago Tibune

San Francisco Chronicle