Off Duty Crew/UC Bar Usage

This has possibly been discussed before, but wanted to bring it up following a flight I took yesterday.

I took an UC flight yesterday to NYC, won't specify which flight for the desire to not get anyone into trouble.

A friend and I were sat in UC pretty close to the bar area on a 346 and were unable to use the bar for the entire trip, due to the fact there were a high number of off duty crew utilising the bar area. Honestly, it sounded like a crew convention, and even when we tried to impose a little space there at several times throughout the flight, not one of them offered to move.

The crew operating the flight also failed to see their colleagues were preventing other passengers from using the bar and joined in on the 5 hour conversation - NO EXAGGERATION.

My question is: What is the policy for off duty crew when travelling in UC? Do they have the same rights as paying UC PAX? If so, surely common courtesy should prevail and a consideration to other passengers should come into play?

Keen to hear anyone else's views.

Did you ask if you could use the bar? I'm sure they would have accommodated you if so.

I'm sure official VS policy would be for off-duty CC not to hog the bar or distract the working crew from their duties. But of course reality is often very different and the FSM probably should have taken action.

Did you ask if you could use the bar? I'm sure they would have accommodated you if so.

Im sure they would have but I think if it was me in that situation I may not have asked. Pretty sure some for hardened regulars (not naming names ) would have asked though.

You are right, however common courtesy should have prevailed

We felt a little awkward asking to be honest as they were sat there surrounded by crew that were on duty. Not really sure we were up for an awkward silence....

Not only would I have asked them, I would have told them to move !

I thought the policy was for off-duty crew to leave the bar if passengers wish to use it? I am sure that has been written here before.

In such circumstances an offer should have been made to accommodate you at the bar and offer stools and space etc. I don't think anyone wishes that off duty crew are strapped in for the duration of the flight, and that the perk of the UC experience is a good one, but really the FSM should have stepped in.

As for making a request, I certainly would have done!

In such circumstances an offer should have been made to accommodate you at the bar and offer stools and space etc. I don't think anyone wishes that off duty crew are strapped in for the duration of the flight, and that the perk of the UC experience is a good one, but really the FSM should have stepped in.

As for making a request, I certainly would have done!

AGREED! the paying passengers in most cases will have paid quite a lot and should be able to enjoy the bar.

I thought the policy was for off-duty crew to leave the bar if passengers wish to use it? I am sure that has been written here before.

I believe that is the case and to be honest is a decent policy.

I also believe staff should be discreet when using the bar about being off duty staff.

AGREED! the paying passengers in most cases will have paid quite a lot and should be able to enjoy the bar.

You are making the assumption that all of the off duty crew were on staff travel.

Some may have paid to be on the flight just like normal passengers - in those circumstances would you deny them the bar??

That said the FSM should have been keeping an eye on the bar area and dropping some less than subtle hints that some people should move.

In such circumstances an offer should have been made to accommodate you at the bar and offer stools and space etc. I don't think anyone wishes that off duty crew are strapped in for the duration of the flight, and that the perk of the UC experience is a good one, but really the FSM should have stepped in.

As for making a request, I certainly would have done!

I totally agree here, I would have certainly have had a quiet word with the FSM. I have seen FSMs ask off duty staff members to return to their seats when passengers approach the bar......

AGREED! the paying passengers in most cases will have paid quite a lot and should be able to enjoy the bar.

You are making the assumption that all of the off duty crew were on staff travel.

Some may have paid to be on the flight just like normal passengers - in those circumstances would you deny them the bar??

That said the FSM should have been keeping an eye on the bar area and dropping some less than subtle hints that some people should move.

You are right tontybear (my apologies), if the off duty crew were in essence "normal" passengers then yes they have as much right to be at the bar.

I also believe staff should be discreet when using the bar about being off duty staff.

Tricky if dealing with crew they have flown with before and perhaps not seen for a few months - of course they are going to want to catch up

Pretty sure some for hardened regulars (not naming names ) would have asked though.

Fairly certain I am implied in that bracket Can't have people getting between me and my JD .... I would have simply joined in the conversation until the FSM appeared to save her off duty colleagues from my interrogation.. ): ):

Staff travel works on a variety of upgrade chances, whereby they pay a flat fare (won't disclose how much as it near on made me cry when I was told) and then they have a set number of 'upgrades' to get them from PE into UC if there is space available. VS staff travel concessions are very generous comparing with those of other airlines - BA in particular are tighter with restrictions, especially where upgrades can be used to the extent it would probably be easier to buy a ticket ii)

In my book they are UC travellers and have the right to use the bar as any one else in the cabin. That being said it is the duty of the FSM or the UC CSS to make sure that no one pax or group of pax are causing inconvenience for other passengers. Sounds like they were incapable of fighting peer pressure in this case - shame n(

Pretty sure some for hardened regulars (not naming names ) would have asked though.

Fairly certain I am implied in that bracket Can't have people getting between me and my JD .... I would have simply joined in the conversation until the FSM appeared to save her off duty colleagues from my interrogation.. ): ):

lol oooops!!

Tricky if dealing with crew they have flown with before and perhaps not seen for a few months - of course they are going to want to catch up

I think that is fair enough. But like you say the FSM should be looking out to make sure that no one group hogs the bar if other PAX are wanting to use it.

In my book they are UC travellers and have the right to use the bar as any one else in the cabin. That being said it is the duty of the FSM or the UC CSS to make sure that no one pax or group of pax are causing inconvenience for other passengers.

I don't agree. There used to be a set of protocols/guidelines for staff on travel including moving to seats with problems if a revenue pax was seated in one, meal choices, using the bar etc.
Most staffers sat at the bar bid a retreat if a revenue passeneger (s)approaches but not all and I've certainly asked staffers (nicely) to move so that I can take a seat on more than one occasion. A good FSM will also manage to avoid situations like this arising in the first place.
IMHO the OP's experience displays poor management by the FSM but staffers also have a responsibity not to misuse the priviledges accorded to them.
A letter from the OP to Crawley Towers is called for I think !
DL

I would like to confirm that the people in question were not crew. Both pilots and crew tend to be the most discreet of staff as we appreciate the working environment on board.

Staff travel extends beyond flying staff to include office based staff, VHols employees family and friends.

In this instance those occupying the bar were asked to vacate after a period to allow some FC customers to make use of the bar but they did return later when the bar was empty so the appearance of occupying for 5 hours is understandable.

It would be easier for crew if only revenue passengers could make use of the bar, but it is a perk and we tend to manage occupancy based on the number of available oxygen masks rather than available seating.

I can only assume that they were mistaken for flying staff as the operating crew were conversing in a friendly manner as we tend to do in the more social setting of the bar area.

If crew are made aware of requests to sit at the bar then we would have managed it accordingly to accommodate needs as even some revenue passengers have to be asked to allow fair usage at times.

Hope this info helps.

[honey lamb]

Just to add my perspective on this.

On a flight to SFO it was obvious on boarding that there were crew members on board. They themselves confirmed it to me after the cabin crew assigned to my area acknowledged my (then) Gold status and asked if he could talk to me later in the flight to see if there was anything that the crew could do to make the service in UC better. One crew member was in the suite next to mine and had overheard this conversation and wanted to talk to me later on the same subject. After the meal she invited me to the bar and also invited another crew member on board to join us. They were discretion itself and the minute the seat belt sign was off they were back in their seats.

On a flight from NRT, there were two pilots deadheading and they were quick to return to their seats.

On a flight from YVR I was told at check-in that there were a number of crew on board as passengers. Apart from the fact that one of the cabin crew spent some time talking to one of the passengers (who may or may not have been crew) there was nothing to indicate that there were crew on board.

Thanks to Aer John, I have staff privileges which I have only used twice mainly because I have used them on EI's European routes (and then made a dog's dinner of one because I gave the wrong return date and so had to buy a single fare back :w ) However the rules are quite clear about behaviour on these flights but, even at my advanced age, it is quite easy to became giddy about these perks ):

I don't agree. There used to be a set of protocols/guidelines for staff on travel including moving to seats with problems if a revenue pax was seated in one, meal choices, using the bar etc. DL

this was certainly the case on my flight on sunday - i swapped with a staff traveller when my seat IFE was faulty, even though i heard the FSM mention to another crew member who talked to the off-duty staff member that she had upgraded to UC

I would like to confirm that the people in question were not crew. Both pilots and crew tend to be the most discreet of staff as we appreciate the working environment on board.

Staff travel extends beyond flying staff to include office based staff, VHols employees family and friends.

In this instance those occupying the bar were asked to vacate after a period to allow some FC customers to make use of the bar but they did return later when the bar was empty so the appearance of occupying for 5 hours is understandable.

It would be easier for crew if only revenue passengers could make use of the bar, but it is a perk and we tend to manage occupancy based on the number of available oxygen masks rather than available seating.

I can only assume that they were mistaken for flying staff as the operating crew were conversing in a friendly manner as we tend to do in the more social setting of the bar area.

If crew are made aware of requests to sit at the bar then we would have managed it accordingly to accommodate needs as even some revenue passengers have to be asked to allow fair usage at times.

Hope this info helps.

Can I ask how you know it was the same flight the OP was talking about? They haven't given the flight number?

Also shouldn't the bar be for all rev and G passengers in Upper and not just those in flying club?

[honey lamb]

I would like to confirm that the people in question were not crew. Both pilots and crew tend to be the most discreet of staff as we appreciate the working environment on board.

Staff travel extends beyond flying staff to include office based staff, VHols employees family and friends.

In this instance those occupying the bar were asked to vacate after a period to allow some FC customers to make use of the bar but they did return later when the bar was empty so the appearance of occupying for 5 hours is understandable.

It would be easier for crew if only revenue passengers could make use of the bar, but it is a perk and we tend to manage occupancy based on the number of available oxygen masks rather than available seating.

I can only assume that they were mistaken for flying staff as the operating crew were conversing in a friendly manner as we tend to do in the more social setting of the bar area.

If crew are made aware of requests to sit at the bar then we would have managed it accordingly to accommodate needs as even some revenue passengers have to be asked to allow fair usage at times.

Hope this info helps.

Can I ask how you know it was the same flight the OP was talking about? They haven't given the flight number?

Also shouldn't the bar be for all rev and G passengers in Upper and not just those in flying club?

The OP said he flew "yesterday" (in this instance July 28th) to NYC and said he was on a 346. There was only one flight that was operated by a 346 to JFK on that date and one flight to EWR.

The OP said he flew "yesterday" (in this instance July 28th) to NYC and said he was on a 346. There was only one flight that was operated by a 346 to JFK on that date and one flight to EWR.

Fair enough

I doubt the "crew" paid a published fare, as it seems the OP was able to identify them as crew.

Even if they had, as employees they should have made way for "external" customers.

Thanks for your reply and insight Flyingstaff. I'm quite sure you were not on the same flight as myself. 2 x 346 flew on Sunday, I checked before posting for the simple reason of not wanting anyone to get into trouble. I'm a big fan of VS and was simply asking what policy is. You've described a scenario that took place on a different flight.

Thanks to everyone for the views/feedback - much appreciated.

I would like to confirm that the people in question were not crew. Both pilots and crew tend to be the most discreet of staff as we appreciate the working environment on board ...

Interesting post, were you on this flight or did you know someone who was?

In response I agree mostly. In most situations when crew are off duty flying they do make way if other passengers wish to sit at the bar, but not always as many frequent fliers here can attest. I have had at least two occasions when I have had a quiet word with the FSM about off duty crew bar hogging - and the attendant problem of working crew spending a long time chatting to them in preference to checking on passengers. Since I've flown an awful lot (100s of VS flights) I can put this into perspective, and also recognize a human desire to socialize with 'like' people. But it does happen.

[Edit] And added, I also do see the occasions when large groups of paying passengers 'party' at the bar to the discomfort of other passengers - the thing is, it always comes down to a good FSM and their leadership to balance things for all.