VS20 August 31st Cancelled

I received a message from Virgin advising me that the flight was running about an hour late, no problem there.

From the Clubhouse I watched as G-VBIG arrived at 1735 and taxied to the gate, we were due to board at 2000 the CH was busy and no boarding calls were made, we were advised on several occasions of further delays to our flight.
At some point after 2300 the decision was made to cancel the flight as the Tech issue couldn't be fixed and a spare part had to be shipped on the September 01 VS19.
A couple of Virgin Staff came to the CH to explain our options and that there were no local Hotels available for Virgin to supply and that we should make our own arrangements and claim expenses back.
I left the CH along with a couple of other passengers when others started telling the Virgin staff just how important they were.
We shared a cab to Union Square and checked in to the Grand Hyatt, I hope that I can claim the $250 back along with the EC261 regulation compensation, I also think my Amex Plat travel insurance should help.

Virgin think they will have G-VBIG fit to fly this afternoon so hopefully I will make work on Monday night. I think the CH will be busy later.

Good luck mate and safe travels home

Ouch, yeh you should be able to claim most back although I have a feeling there is a limit to the amount they refund on the night's hotel stay.

Top marks on taking the cooler option of just going back into town, same cannot be said of those VIPs

Best of luck Dom, and as Blacky says safe travels 8D

Sorry to hear this.

I must admit, I would expect VS to sort hotels for passengers in this situation -- especially UC/AU. Even if they were back in the city.

[honey lamb]

Sorry to hear this.

I must admit, I would expect VS to sort hotels for passengers in this situation -- especially UC/AU. Even if they were back in the city.

I would have thought that too. ?|

That's bad news Dom
Really hope you can claim it back, surely that's what travel insurance is for though right?
I too am surprised VS didn't look after UC/AU flyers better :-$ poor show VS:-(
Anyway hope you make it back in time for work

Well I'm back in the SFO Clubhouse again, second time in two days.
Today's flight number is VS1020 and being unable to use OLCI I only managed SEQ173 (shock horror) check in took 50 minutes compared to yesterday's 5 minutes.

Thanks for your best wishes, it looks like I'll get back to LHR around 1345 so will make it with plenty of time to get to work tomorrow night.

I guess Labour day weekend so hotels must be petty full anyway across the city and trying to get 300 rooms on a Saturday can be pretty tough at such short notice

I guess Labour day weekend so hotels must be petty full anyway across the city and trying to get 300 rooms on a Saturday can be pretty tough at such short notice

Yeah and the Americas Cup is also on in the Bay at the moment which draws a big crowd.

I guess Labour day weekend so hotels must be petty full anyway across the city and trying to get 300 rooms on a Saturday can be pretty tough at such short notice

Also the Americas Cup series is on at the moment so rooms at a premium all over the city.

Just as s FYI to the OP but it depends on the actual cause of the plane going tech as to whether or not EU261 compensation is payable or not. That's not to say VS won't make offers though.

But it does seen strange that they need to fly a part in from the UK rather than being able to obtain one locally.

Good luck with the claim. I had a similar situation with three of us travelling UC from MAN when the aircraft went tech at the gate resulting in a 24 hour delay. Claims submitted and refused by VS. Now in the hands of soliciors

But it does seen strange that they need to fly a part in from the UK rather than being able to obtain one locally.

Indeed, esp. since UA has a 747 base at SFO.

Anyhow, Hull, keep us posted.

Surely a delay of this time is €600 compensation under EU261?

Hope you get home on time and don't lose out financially.

[preiffer]

Friend of mine was on the same flight - they didn't do too well on the "allocated accommodation" front...

Still, NO mention to them of the standard EU compensation being due - which is bad form VS, I thought they were supposed to ensure passengers knew their rights in such cases?

[preiffer]

Just as s FYI to the OP but it depends on the actual cause of the plane going tech as to whether or not EU261 compensation is payable or not. That's not to say VS won't make offers though.

Nope. Not been the case since the 2008 ruling.

In the case Wallentin-Hermann v Alitalia—Linee Aeree Italiane SpA (Case C-549/07) of 22 December 2008,[2] the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg ruled on the interpretation of Article 5 of the regulation relating to cancellations, specifically paragraph 3 which states:
An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
The Court agreed with Wallentin-Hermann that any technical issues during aircraft maintenance don’t constitute "extraordinary circumstances" that would allow airlines to avoid paying passengers compensation for canceled flights. This case therefore closed the loophole which had allowed the airlines to abuse passengers by frivolous interpretation of "technical or extraordinary circumstances"; it further defined the phrase and limited its exploitation. The definition of "technical and/or extraordinary circumstances" by the Court now stands firm and solid: any carrier must prove that the alleged mechanical problem leading to the cancellation was "beyond its actual control", the court affirmed in a statement. In its judgment, the Fourth Chamber of the Court of Justice held:
Extraordinary circumstances” was not defined in the 2004 Regulation, but the phrase was to be interpreted narrowly since article 5(3) constituted a derogation from the principle, indicated in recitals 1 and 2 of the preamble, of protection of consumers, in as much as cancellation of flights caused serious inconvenience to passengers.
Furthermore, in the joined cases of Sturgeon v Condor, and Bock v Air France (C-402/07 and C-432/07),[3] the Fourth Chamber of the European Court of Justice held on 19 November 2009 that despite no express provision in the Regulation to compensate passengers for delay, passengers are now entitled to the compensation as set out in Article 8 for any delay in excess of three hours providing the air carrier cannot raise a defence of "extraordinary circumstances".
"Articles 5, 6 and 7 of Regulation EC 261/2004 must be interpreted as meaning that passengers whose flights are delayed may be treated, for the purposes of the application of the right to compensation, as passengers whose flights are cancelled and they may thus rely on the right to compensation laid down in Article 7 of the regulation where they suffer, on account of a flight delay, a loss of time equal to or in excess of three hours, that is, where they reach their final destination three hours or more after the arrival time originally scheduled by the air carrier."[4]
The fourth Chamber also ruled that under the definition of "extraordinary circumstances", technical faults within an aircraft should not be included and therefore an air carrier cannot rely on a technical fault within an aircraft as a defence from a valid claim under the Regulation.[5] Various passenger rights groups reported the case and encouraged passengers to bring claims against airlines in the event of a delay of over three hours.[6]

Hi all.

I've just got home from SFO, at the gate we were given a booklet titled "Compensation and assistance" which refers to EC 261/2004 and a claim form for miles with differing amounts based on class of travel UC 25000, PE 18750, EC 12500.

The FSM was also telling passengers that they are entitled to claim under EC 261/2004.

As for the spare part, it was an Engine part made only by GE in the UK.

I'll get my first night shift out of the way then submit my claims in the morning.

TR to follow in the next couple of days.

Good to hear you got back Dom ,looking forward to the TR,s and how you get on with the claim ,enjoy your shift !

Welcome Home !

Yeah, welcome back y) at least the sun was shining for you 8D Hardcore going straight into nights but I guess a tech plane didn't help that v(

Good luck with your claim...keep us posted

Glad you made it back in time.
And good that VS gave you paperwork for claiming back.
Hope the night shift isn't too lethal

Hi all.

I've just got home from SFO, at the gate we were given a booklet titled "Compensation and assistance" which refers to EC 261/2004 and a claim form for miles with differing amounts based on class of travel UC 25000, PE 18750, EC 12500.

The FSM was also telling passengers that they are entitled to claim under EC 261/2004.

As for the spare part, it was an Engine part made only by GE in the UK.

I'll get my first night shift out of the way then submit my claims in the morning.

TR to follow in the next couple of days.

Just seems strange that a global company like GE only makes (and stores) the part here in dear old Blighty.

Sorry has a brain freeze on that EU261 also applies to delays rather than just cancellations.

But as a heads up under the proposed revamp due to come into force next year the delay element has been confirmed BUT the number of hours needed before compensation kicks in will be extended to a minimum of 5 hours for short flights and 9 and 12 hours for longer ones (distance dependent)

Not good, I have just received a letter from VS denying compensation due to Exceptional Circumstances !

I have tried to email Customer Services regarding the situation and quoting the November 2009 ruling http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 02:EN:HTML regarding the fact that Technical issues are not counted as Exceptional Circumstances but surprise surprise it won't go through to customer services v(

I have pasted the contents of my email into the feedback box in the Customer Relations part of the website.

VSec261.jpg (18.33 KiB) Viewed 2525 times

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My reply as follows.

Good afternoon,

I have just received a reply to my claim for compensation under EU261/2004 regarding the cancellation of flight VS020 on August 31st 2013 FLW686 claim 1474922/CUSCRW/2

I am sorry to see it states that you are denying compensation due to the cancellation being caused by "Extraordinary Circumstances" with a replacement W10 wiring loom being required.

According to the EC261/2004 regulations Article 5 c I am entitled to compensation of €600

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 261:EN:NOT
Article 5

Cancellation

1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:

(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 8; and

(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of re-routing when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and

(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:

(i) they are informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or

(ii) they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or

(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.

2. When passengers are informed of the cancellation, an explanation shall be given concerning possible alternative transport.

3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

4. The burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier.



Article 7

Right to compensation

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation amounting to:

(a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less;

(b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres;

(c) EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).

In determining the distance, the basis shall be the last destination at which the denial of boarding or cancellation will delay the passenger's arrival after the scheduled time.

2. When passengers are offered re-routing to their final destination on an alternative flight pursuant to Article 8, the arrival time of which does not exceed the scheduled arrival time of the flight originally booked

(a) by two hours, in respect of all flights of 1500 kilometres or less; or

(b) by three hours, in respect of all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres; or

(c) by four hours, in respect of all flights not falling under (a) or (b),

the operating air carrier may reduce the compensation provided for in paragraph 1 by 50 %.

3. The compensation referred to in paragraph 1 shall be paid in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services.

4. The distances given in paragraphs 1 and 2 shall be measured by the great circle route method.



With regards to the Extraordinary Circumstances clause
3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
It was ruled by the Judgement of the Court (fourth chamber) on November 19 2009 in the

Joined Cases C-402/07 and C-432/07 Christopher Sturgeon and Others v Condor Flugdienst GmbH and Stefan Böck and Cornelia Lepuschitz v Air France SA


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 02:EN:HTML


3. Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights must be interpreted as meaning that a technical problem in an aircraft which leads to the cancellation or delay of a flight is not covered by the concept of ‘extraordinary circumstances’ within the meaning of that provision, unless that problem stems from events which, by their nature or origin, are not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of the air carrier concerned and are beyond its actual control.

Reasonable Measures should include the carrying of or the ability to obtain locally spare parts pertinent to the operation of your aircraft.

Under article 9 you also failed to carry out your duty of care by providing accommodation and transport to and from said accommodation.

Article 9
Right to care

1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:

(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;

(b) hotel accommodation in cases

- where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary, or

- where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;

(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).

2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.

3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.


I have twice on September 02nd and October 01st submitted a copy of my Hotel receipt for the night I had to spend in San Francisco to which I am still awaiting a reply and refund.

I find it very disappointing that we (myself and other passengers travelling on VS1020 formerly VS020 from the 31st August) were advised on the ground in both San Francisco and London and by the FSM onboard who handed each of us in Upper Class individually the "Virgin Atlantic Compensation and Assistance in the event of Cancellation" booklet that we were entitled to compensation under EC261/2004.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.


Not sure how much good it will do but I have to try.

I'll keep you all updated soon.

Dominic

If that doesn't sort it not sure what else will
Looking forward to hearing the outcome

You'll be waiting for ever for customer services, I used [email protected] and got a reasonably fast response to my issue.