virgin airmiles confused.

Between me & hubby we have just under 118000 air miles. i get most as out VA amex/visa card is in my name so i collect the points Will will have more miles after our NYC trip in October.


After searching the forums i am rather confused as to the best way to use these miles to get value for money.

Our Virgin rep said we could use 10000 and exchange for a £50 voucher towards our current holiday which would mean around £500 off doesn't seem much.

Other staff say they have to be used direct at VA website to book certain flights only - but there are tight restrictions like only certain places, certain classes of travel and certain dates and they can only be used on flight NOT a holiday.
I am beginning to wonder if these airmiles are actually worth anything or to go back to my amex nectar card, where so far with just my nectar card i have earnt over £200 to spend since Jan 2014.
My Virgin airmiles has taken a few trips to get this amount.

So any help/advice appreciated cheers

[Neil]

Miles are best used towards flights, which have to be booked direct with Virgin Atlantic. You can use miles as indicated for Virgin Holidays vouchers, but these end up being a very poor return for the miles.

It all depends on how you book your travels, if you like to book packages then the miles really won't me that useful for you and there are better options out there.
If you book flights/hotels separately then you can make some big savings using miles, but it isn't easy, and does require some understanding and flexibility usually.

I think the general consensus is that the best value use of miles is to upgrade from Economy to Upper.
We have recently spent £1800 including the extra taxes etc. and 100,000 miles for two UC returns to Orlando.
The current price would be £5000 so the miles have bought £3200 worth of tickets.
You need a bit of planning and/or flexibility to get reward seats on some flights but it's generally do-able.
Dick D

Once you hit 120,000 - ie after next flight - providing you and husband have 60,000 each - that is the magic number required for a economy upgraded to upper class ticket return to North America west coast.

Best bet is to then phone Virgin, look for availability to a destination that interests - and at a time you can go, and you'll find 2 upper class tickets should cost you somewhere around £15-1600 total - the magic is to first check availability in the "milage reward class G" - then buy an up-gradable ticket and upgrade at that moment all in one transaction. Then just book car + hotel separately, and get insurance in case things go wrong. You'll find best availability by being flexible (very) - if you can't be flexible, then you may have to look to use for Virgin holidays use (thats the only reason I'd be doing it).

The upgrade route would be recommended as the most mileage efficient use of your miles as the above will also earn another ~ 10,000 miles, making total cost 50,000 each. The downside is the booking will not be as flexible as a full redemption - but you need 100,000 each for that.. Fully flexible rewards are movable for a small fee and same with cancellation - useful if you could have to cancel at a few weeks out for family or other reasonable.

The alternative if UC is unavailable is booking a upgradable economy, upgrade to PE with miles (a little less) - then hope for the G upgrade becomes available later.

Definitely use your miles on flights, not holidays - that is best advice. I was shocked at meeting someone on a flight back from Vegas at the UC bar who cashed in 400000 for "only" a 2000 discount on a holiday. Same would have got him 4 business class trips for ~ 550 pp (full redemptions) - valued at ~ 2000 each in a sale, 3-4000 outside.

thanks for replies, sorry i did not get notification of replies.
Would we be able to book PE then use miles to upgrade to UC.
Getting older we prefer now to fly PE - for piece & quite as well as more room.

our next flight is from London to NYC with PE seats so not sure how many miles we will earn. Would have had more as we were meant to go to Boston/Washington last month with return flight being UC, but had to cancel due to me injuring myself. Thankfully ins paid up and we only lost £100 (could have lost 70%) as it was about 3 weeks before we were due to go.

When you book using airmiles can you book at short notice.
So i have to book in a particular class (means nothing to me)but i understand there are different classes in each E PE or UC sections
TBH when we book i tend to contact a virgin rep tell her what we want and they are so helpful and sort everything for us. Last few times we have booked i have followed the rep where ever she transfers to. Now i also get loyalty point within the department store

You can buy an economy or PE ticket and use miles to upgrade to UC from either.

However you can't upgrade from the cheapest economy or PE fares quoted on the website, only from more expensive and flexible fares (M class in economy, S in PE).

You also have to pay the additional taxes and fees incurred when you book UC.

And, crucially, there must be reward seats available in UC - which is by no means guaranteed as they are very limited (but, in theory, available at short notice).

So, for example, subject to availability a return to New York would probably cost around £700 for an M class economy fare, another £100 in taxes & fees for UC and 40,000 miles.

If you call VS Flying Club they will help find reward availability on your chosen route and work out the most cost effective way of doing it with miles.

Gumshoe thanks for your reply!
How would you find out what class of fare you have purchased/are purchasing.

Here is the flights we should have had last month - that i had to cancel. this nor anywhere on my invoice shows what class we paid for, only shows the cabin

Depart London Heathrow Apt Sun 01-Jun-2014 11:35 Cabin PREMIUM ECONOMY VS 21
Arrival Washington Dulles International Apt Sun 01-Jun-2014 14:50

Depart Boston Logan International Apt Wed 11-Jun-2014 21:40 Cabin UPPER CLASS VS 12
Arrival London Heathrow Apt Thu 12-Jun-2014 09:10
Its only via this forum that i found out that there were different seat prices/classes within each cabin. Have no idea how they are worked out etc or if its where you sit (ie cheaper to sit at back middle or front)

It has nothing to do with where in the cabin you sit, no.

Each cabin - Economy, PE & UC - has numerous fare buckets which vary hugely in price.

The cheapest - which most people buy - are very inflexible so can't be changed and if you cancel you won't get a refund (apart from taxes). They're also not available last minute (in days gone by they were known as APEX fares, or advance purchase excursion).

The most expensive are completely flexible and can be changed or cancelled at will.

As with advance rail fares, there are only limited numbers of seats in each bucket and as the cheaper ones sell out you'll have to pay more for a dearer one.

And as mentioned above, the cheapest buckets aren't upgradable with miles. The higher UC buckets also include limo service but the cheapest ones don't. Other than that, though, the bucket you buy has no bearing on the service you get: someone who's paid £1500 for the cheapest UC return to NY will get exactly the same service and can choose from exactly the same seats as someone who's paid £6000 for the dearest.

If you book direct with VS you'll be emailed an e-ticket. That tells you what bucket you're in.

Thanks for that. So sounds like when i book my package with virgin they choose ur bucket as to the type of booking you make ie family trip to orlando booked 12 months in advance would be the cheaper non refundable seats?

That also answers my Q on the return UC flight we had booked, no limo service as we got a "good deal" it would have been the cheaper section
Basically the more you pay the more flexability you have, but i could pay far less than you & have same service aboard just you sit in a better section, but i cant change my flight or maybe upgrade like you can.

What i am trying to say is the likes of UC or PE may not be as expensive as people think if flixabity is not an issue.

[Neil]

Thanks for that. So sounds like when i book my package with virgin they choose ur bucket as to the type of booking you make ie family trip to orlando booked 12 months in advance would be the cheaper non refundable seats?

That also answers my Q on the return UC flight we had booked, no limo service as we got a "good deal" it would have been the cheaper section
Basically the more you pay the more flexability you have, but i could pay far less than you & have same service aboard just you sit in a better section, but i cant change my flight or maybe upgrade like you can.

What i am trying to say is the likes of UC or PE may not be as expensive as people think if flixabity is not an issue.

Just to clarify again, the people on higher/more expensive fare codes don't have a special section they sit in, the fare code has no impact at all on where you can sit.

Most package companies get deals with the airlines and therefore the fare codes are usually the cheaper and no flexible codes, so that is why they cannot be upgraded with miles.

So sounds like when i book my package with virgin they choose ur bucket as to the type of booking you make ie family trip to orlando booked 12 months in advance would be the cheaper non refundable seats?

What i am trying to say is the likes of UC or PE may not be as expensive as people think if flixabity is not an issue.

When you look at flight or package prices online, the price you're quoted is normally the lowest available fare for the class you want to travel in.

But that fare, while relatively low, comes with conditions. If you end up having to change or cancel it, you'll lose most of your money (unless you can get your insurance to pay out because, say, of a death in the family).

There are much higher fares in each class which come with a lot more flexibility and - in the case of Virgin Upper Class - with perks like limo service.

But as Neil says, whichever fare bucket you're in you'll still sit in the same seats, eat the same food and get the same service as everyone else in your cabin - even if they've paid thousands more than you.

If you book UC to New York in a sale, a return can be had for about £1500 if you buy the cheapest non-flexible fare. Equally you could pay well over £6000 for the dearest, most flexible fare. But whichever ticket you bought, you're still entitled to request seat 1A - that's first come first served.

But whichever ticket you bought, you're still entitled to request seat 1A - that's first come first served.

And then find when you arrive at LHR they have moved you to the seats near the bar as Miss Off-duty Cabin Crew wanted that seat