Passengers removed after Knee Defender argument

My OH has the same problem with his height/length of thigh bone. We try not to fly even P/E as it can cause problems for him - usually solved by swapping seats with me as I'm at the shorter end of the spectrum. Though I still hate it when people fully recline into my lap even though I know they're entitled to do so.

I'm a lanky 6ft2" and I feel like the shortest person on this thread.

I'm a lanky 6ft2" and I feel like the shortest person on this thread.

Don't worry fuzzy , I'm with you at 6ft 2 y)

I'm a ickle 5ft 6 tall but am about 4ft round!

5'4" if I really stretch up!

5'4" if I really stretch up!

My mum was 5ft 4 when I was young but in her latter years she is currently at 5ft 2 1/2
Something for you to look forward to Whiterose )

5'4" if I really stretch up!

My mum was 5ft 4 when I was young but in her latter years she is currently at 5ft 2 1/2
Something for you to look forward to Whiterose )

My mam's a hobbit at 4ft 10!

5'4" if I really stretch up!

My mum was 5ft 4 when I was young but in her latter years she is currently at 5ft 2 1/2
Something for you to look forward to Whiterose )

My mam's a hobbit at 4ft 10!

Another 3/4 years and I reckon my mum won't be far off

The ridiculous leg-room in economy is partly the consequence of the price pressure airlines have on selling these seats.
With the public now demanding such low competitive fares for air travel, any airline that truly innovated economy travel, and priced it accordingly, would probably be out of business very quickly.
The cost per mile of air travel, in real terms, has dropped steadily over the past three decades, to about a quarter of what it was in 1970. It's plateaued a little over the past few years (with low inflation, and ticket price rises) but remains a highly competitive and affordable product.
The whole industry is faced with the same problem. Some of the blame lies with the 'low-cost' airline spurt, which has had the knock-on effect of 'full cost' airlines lowering their prices, and their service.

The first time I flew Virgin Atlantic to Orlando was in the early 90's and the fare was a whopping ): £187 return. I can honestly say that since then, any time I have travelled in economy I've not noticed any difference in the leg room for economy passengers on a 747 or Air bus planes comparing then to now? Only change I've noticed is the astronomical rise in prices !

I must admit that when I'm on my travels in whichever cabin I'm in if I'm not eating or having a drink at the bar I will generally try and sleep, I will always let the person behind me (where appropriate) know that I will be reclining my seat so I can have a good rest as I often have a good few hours drive at the other end.

And when was the last time you had someone behind you Dom ? , it's normally a window isn't it !

Haha, it has been a while on VS I must admit I think it was December 2012 on a Y/PE weekend to NYC to get my AU status, but I did a LHR-YVR this year in Y with BA as part of a Snowboard Instructor course as didn't want to meet my housemates for the next four weeks then leave them straightaway at the Jet bridge and turn left, the flight and meals were pretty decent but I got off with a numb bum from a rather uncomfy seat.

The first time I flew Virgin Atlantic to Orlando was in the early 90's and the fare was a whopping ): £187 return. I can honestly say that since then, any time I have travelled in economy I've not noticed any difference in the leg room for economy passengers on a 747 or Air bus planes comparing then to now? Only change I've noticed is the astronomical rise in prices !

In that time oil has risen five-fold from $20 to $100 a barrel

And more recliner rage

But not due to the use of a 'knee defender'

I think they are using this as an 'explanation' ):

Alexandre, who’s from Paris,...

It will happen more and more. People are getting bigger and seats smaller.

So if you are too tall to sit in a standard legroom seat comfortable another passenger should have to forgo the privilege of reclining the seat and being comfortable too?

I wonder how many of those supporting this behavior would moan if an overweight person prevents them being comfortable in the seat they paid for. Should you not also be required to purchase a seat suitable for you?

What about if I am physiologically suffering from your choice of (eg mindless violent), IFE movie? Am I in my rights to have the cabin crew limit what you watch even though you paid for your ticket?

If I brought my ticket for a seat, of which the details of pitch/legroom/etc. are usually easily found, I should be allowed to use that seat as it is designed. If I am not allowed to make use of this am I entitled to a refund from the airline?

As a 6'2" person that cannot afford to fly anything other than economy I will recline my seat when it suits me, subject to any legal requirements such as take off/taxi/landing and out of courtesy not during meal service. Selfish? Maybe but no more than you insisting I be uncomfortable by not reclining my seat.

PW

So if you are too tall to sit in a standard legroom seat comfortable another passenger should have to forgo the privilege of reclining the seat and being comfortable too?

I wonder how many of those supporting this behavior would moan if an overweight person prevents them being comfortable in the seat they paid for. Should you not also be required to purchase a seat suitable for you?

What about if I am physiologically suffering from your choice of (eg mindless violent), IFE movie? Am I in my rights to have the cabin crew limit what you watch even though you paid for your ticket?

If I brought my ticket for a seat, of which the details of pitch/legroom/etc. are usually easily found, I should be allowed to use that seat as it is designed. If I am not allowed to make use of this am I entitled to a refund from the airline?
As a 6'2" person that cannot afford to fly anything other than economy I will recline my seat when it suits me, subject to any legal requirements such as take off/taxi/landing and out of courtesy not during meal service. Selfish? Maybe but no more than you insisting I be uncomfortable by not reclining my seat.

PW

Your post defines you. Although I am lucky enough to usually fly first with BA I believe I can reasonably speak for most tall people. I am sure every tall person who can't afford a premium cabin tries to book an extra legroom seat, but with limited availability that doesn't always happen. I remember the days when you couldn't allocate seats and I would drag my family to the airport 4 hours before the flight just to be at the front of the queue to get the legroom seats. When selfish w****rs recline knowing they are going to cause pain to another person it says it all. Tallness is not something you can control, being over weight is, as is being arrogant. v( v(

PilotWolf - you don't get the point. I'm pointing out that someone who sits in front of me CANNOT recline their seat since there is nowhere for it to go - upright, my knees are pressed against it. If you try and recline it, you are going to have to push me physically back through my seat.

If you want more space, buy an upgrade if you can. If you can't, then accept that lower airfares have forced space downwards.

It is frequently impossible to discover how much space you will have, since the measure of 'seat pitch' is meaningless. It is NOT your leg room - it is the distance between a point on one seat and the corresponding point on the seat before. I have flown on some low cost carriers with 29" pitch and found there to be much more room than on a carrier with a 32" pitch - simply because the seat was thinner and the pocket wasn't full of fat magazines.

[preiffer]

Your post defines you. Although I am lucky enough to usually fly first with BA I believe I can reasonably speak for most tall people. I am sure every tall person who can't afford a premium cabin tries to book an extra legroom seat, but with limited availability that doesn't always happen. I remember the days when you couldn't allocate seats and I would drag my family to the airport 4 hours before the flight just to be at the front of the queue to get the legroom seats. When selfish w****rs recline knowing they are going to cause pain to another person it says it all. Tallness is not something you can control, being over weight is, as is being arrogant. v( v(

Completely agree y)
Luckily, I'm also in the camp of avoiding economy. However, if that was the attitude of someone in front of me (to prefer causing physical pain to an individual behind, to deliver their own perceived "comfort") I think I'd be having words... n(

Isn't part (all?) of the problem that airlines sell the same space twice?

Economy seats on VS offer 31" seat pitch, measured from a point on one seat to the same point on the next. So a passenger has paid for the 31" from the back of his upright seat to the back of the upright seat in front.

If the passenger in front reclines, then he has more than his 31" but the passenger behind has less. You can only get the 31" seat pitch you've paid for if no-one reclines, which is why I say airlines have sold the same space twice, once to the passenger himself and once to the person in front who reclines into it.

PaulS

Tallness is not something you can control, being over weight is, as is being arrogant.

There are many weight issues that are out of the control of that person including psychiatric ones.

The arrogance as I see it is that your needs take priority of the majority.

Sarastro

PilotWolf - you don't get the point. I'm pointing out that someone who sits in front of me CANNOT recline their seat since there is nowhere for it to go - upright, my knees are pressed against it. If you try and recline it, you are going to have to push me physically back through my seat.

If you want more space, buy an upgrade if you can. If you can't, then accept that lower airfares have forced space downwards.

I get the point - other passengers suffer and cannot make full use of their seat because of your size - I accept that ou cannot change your height but as I pointed out many can do nothing about their weight either.

As I said I am tall and cannot afford the higher classes of travel so it's OK for me to suffer by not reclining but not for 'you' to suffer by me reclining?

As I said my views maybe selfish but certainly no more than those that quoted my post...

PW.

What would you have me do, PilotWolf? Cut my legs off? It is not that I would suffer if you tried to recline. In front of me on many flights you CANNOT recline - my legs simply are too long to allow any backward movement of the seat. I'm not being difficult, or selfish - I'm obeying the laws of physics that say that you can't pass one solid object (your seat) through another (my kneecaps). Simple as.

Sarasota your waisting your time. PilotWolf is obviously far too important to listen to a factual arguement. He thinks people who just want to able to sit without having physical pain are arrogant even though line you point out in the case of really tall people he wouldn't be able to recline anyway.

[honey lamb]

Sarasota your waisting your time. PilotWolf is obviously far too important to listen to a factual arguement. He thinks people who just want to able to sit without having physical pain are arrogant even though line you point out in the case of really tall people he wouldn't be able to recline anyway.

Now, now boys! Play nicely :X

PaulS

Sarasota your waisting your time. PilotWolf is obviously far too important to listen to a factual arguement. He thinks people who just want to able to sit without having physical pain are arrogant even though line you point out in the case of really tall people he wouldn't be able to recline anyway.

No, I am trying to explain in simple terms as some people are so wrapped up in the fact that their (your?) opinion is the only right one. As I said before I am not the arrogant one - those in glass houses and stones come to mind.

So again...

- I understand you occupying a seat stops it reclining.
- Your body stature stops me using the seat that I have paid for to its full extent.
- Why should I suffer because you won't pay extra for a seat that is suitable for you to use without inconveniencing others?
- As I said it is no different to an obese person being required to purchase 2 seats. Both people are too big for a standard seat!

And let's not even get started on the safety aspect to you and other passengers if you're that tightly wedged in the seat.

PW

- Why should I suffer because you won't pay extra for a seat that is suitable for you to use without inconveniencing others?
PW

Why should I suffer because YOU won't pay extra for a seat that is suitable for YOU to use without inconveniencing others??

You want to recline, cough up and upgrade. As you are insisting I have to if I am to avoid pain.

TA

I think we have a case of knee defender thread rage