LGW fleet decision in 5-9 months.

Read this article earlier today regarding the fleet replacement for the LGW based aircraft.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 051348.cms

Interesting to read that Craig Kreeger is considering the 777.

Dan

I wouldn't read too much to that it's just VS keeping the choices open - and boeing and airbus on their toes.


What is more interesting is the comment on the A380 options to buy and that is was unlikely they would proceed with them.

Hardly a big surprise - it's been blindingly obvious they wouldn't go ahead with the A380s for a good year now! Has he ever publicly said as much before though?

At least more A330s don't appear to be on the cards! 787-10s seem most likely to me assuming the 787-9s bed in well over the coming months.

Hardly a big surprise - it's been blindingly obvious they wouldn't go ahead with the A380s for a good year now! Has he ever publicly said as much before though?

At least more A330s don't appear to be on the cards! 787-10s seem most likely to me assuming the 787-9s bed in well over the coming months.

I quite like the a333 as a plane though .wouldnt bother me if they got some more as long as the layout was a tad better in UC ! The PE cabin is quite nice and cosy

Hardly a big surprise - it's been blindingly obvious they wouldn't go ahead with the A380s for a good year now! Has he ever publicly said as much before though?

At least more A330s don't appear to be on the cards! 787-10s seem most likely to me assuming the 787-9s bed in well over the coming months.

I quite like the a333 as a plane though .wouldnt bother me if they got some more as long as the layout was a tad better in UC ! The PE cabin is quite nice and cosy

IMO the a333 is a nice plane but VS need to refurbish the UCDS to something acceptable

Would be very surprised if VS didn't go with the 787-10 for the 747 fleet replacement at both LHR and LGW.

I imagine that the crewing/ training/maintenance cost of having a single 787 fleet supplemented by the 330's is lower than introducing another type altogether such as the A350.

Given recent events; horrible picture choice on that article.

Good bit of work from Craig - keeps Boeing and Airbus on its toes for the potential orders...

Honestly I would like VS to buy 1 A380 and go to town on it - with a whole floor for UC and making it really special with massive PE section akin to UC in the current fleet and then a class ECO section... A chance for VS to really mix it up - and put it on a route that will keep it at a decent load level, such as LHR/JFK - also make a statement and really fly in the face of ordinary!

However, this wont happen - but would be a great statement.

I would expect if the new 787 works well they will get a fleet of these - the cost of having one 'partner' will no doubt help - also pilots will be able to interchange along with CC.

There's a great post on another site about seat numbers involved.

I suppose the question has to be "Is Gatwick slot restricted?" because if VS go down the route of 787's to replace the 747's one for one, the loss of seats, even on the MCO routes nearly equates to one full 747 per day at peak times ie 5 flights into MCO per day.

So unless they are going to increase the number of flights, which goes against the whole cost saving ethos/slot restriction issues, can they seriously get away with losing that amount of seats for sale

Remember we are talking about the peak months when there are 2 xLGW, 2 xMAN and 1x GLA (or sometimes 3x LGW and 2x MAN)

It would be nice to potentially see 6 or 7 VS planes at MCO on one day but I wouldn't like to be at the gates on these days

I seem to recall BA has just increased their service to MCO to 2 777's 7 days a week, so there must still be some growth in that particular market.

It's fine reducing costs by having a 1 type fleet, but if your also drastically reducing your income at the same time ......

It will be interesting times ahead for LGW.

David

VS appears to be aiming for yield over revenue / passengers, so it wouldn't surprise me if it downsizes the fleet further. That said, it would indeed be giving up a lot of revenue at peak times to replace the 747s one-for-one so we'll see.

The influence of DL will be clear in this decision - and the first time DL's influence on plane types becomes clear. Although the strategy of the two airlines could not be more different - on the one hand VS likes a young, modern leased fleet whereas DL prefers older, used and therefore a low capex fleet. DL is however in the market to replace 747s and older 777s and is evaluating the A350 and B787, and they make no mention of the 777X. It wouldn't surprise me to see A350-1000s perhaps for this decision therefore bringing some capacity back ... piggy backing on a DL order for A350-900s to get volume discounts.

VS has been downsizing for some time

I don't mind the A330, sure the aisle are narrow and it feels a little cramped compared to the 747. However taking out a row of seats is going to mean less availability, especially for reward seats. When used on the leisure routes I still think it stacks up well against the competion, perhaps only the flight to LAS would suit/need the old Upper? Of course it shouldn't be used out of Heathrow. Would love to see a blinged up A380 with the new clubhouse flying from LAX but guess that won,t happen. On another subject I did see a clip from the Jax Jaguars and it looks like they used a Virgin plane to fly from Cincanati to Gatwick, the players (remember their not small) were in Economy and then a 2 hour bus ride to the Grove, I think they would have loved the dream suite!

I don't mind the A330, sure the aisle are narrow and it feels a little cramped compared to the 747. However taking out a row of seats is going to mean less availability, especially for reward seats. When used on the leisure routes I still think it stacks up well against the competion, perhaps only the flight to LAS would suit/need the old Upper? Of course it shouldn't be used out of Heathrow. Would love to see a blinged up A380 with the new clubhouse flying from LAX but guess that won,t happen. On another subject I did see a clip from the Jax Jaguars and it looks like they used a Virgin plane to fly from Cincanati to Gatwick, the players (remember their not small) were in Economy and then a 2 hour bus ride to the Grove, I think they would have loved the dream suite!

All the NFL teams have flown in the A340-600's they are flights put on just for the team and associated media so no players would have been in economy, a few might have had to slum it in PE but none in economy, we spoke to the pilots in the ATC RT and they said each team had brought about 150 people so not a squeeze on an A340-600

Fair point about the A340 600 plenty of room in Upper and Premium. They must have just been having their photos taken at the back. Still if I was checking in Tony Romo and Jerry Jones they would have been seated in 64F and 65F.

I was once told that although clearly some people on these NFL charters sit in UC, some in PE and the rest have to go in Y, the food service is identical throughout the plane (and it's a custom menu, not the usual fare).

Would be very surprised if VS didn't go with the 787-10 for the 747 fleet replacement at both LHR and LGW.

I imagine that the crewing/ training/maintenance cost of having a single 787 fleet supplemented by the 330's is lower than introducing another type altogether such as the A350.

The A350 is a development of the A330, it has plenty in common with it. I would consider it more probable they would buy A350-10 over the 777X to replace their jumbos, however in the spirit of downsizing the 787-10 is the most likely option.

What is the point of downsizing? I presume that those MCOs dint fly out empty?

What is the point of downsizing? I presume that those MCOs dint fly out empty?

VS have always been a bit poor compared to BA so downsizing unfortunately is the only way

What is the point of downsizing? I presume that those MCOs dint fly out empty?

VS have always been a bit poor compared to BA so downsizing unfortunately is the only way

On the MCO route Virgin has been anything but "poor compared to BA" with BA only recently adding a second flight per day whereas Virgin has a minimum of 2 going up to 5 flights per day at peak times

Wonder why there is no talk of the newer 747-8 which has an increased capacity and new wings etc.? Lufthansa are already flying these as well as the A380 so they must have some benefits. These would then be a direct replacement for the LGW aircraft and slightly increase capacity to MCO

Wonder why there is no talk of the newer 747-8 which has an increased capacity and new wings etc.? Lufthansa are already flying these as well as the A380 so they must have some benefits. These would then be a direct replacement for the LGW aircraft and slightly increase capacity to MCO

This really puzzles me also. From what I've read, the 747-8 is slightly more fuel efficient than the A380, and significantly cheaper to buy. I suppose Virgin just don't want such big aircraft anymore?

What is the point of downsizing? I presume that those MCOs dint fly out empty?

VS have always been a bit poor compared to BA so downsizing unfortunately is the only way

My comment re:downsizing was more to do with the size of the plane not the service by VS. While the 747s may be full during the summer months they are half empty during the winter. With the advent of these more efficient twins it is better to increase to operate more services rather than run one big A380. We will end up with VS having a larger fleet of smaller planes.

Wonder why there is no talk of the newer 747-8 which has an increased capacity and new wings etc.? Lufthansa are already flying these as well as the A380 so they must have some benefits. These would then be a direct replacement for the LGW aircraft and slightly increase capacity to MCO

The 747-8 passenger model is a dud, it’s not selling. Since it went on sale they've only sold 51 passenger models with a grand total of zero this year. It, and the A380, simply can’t compete with the twin engines and when Boeing launch the 777X and Airbus the A350-10 that will be the nail in the coffin, near 747-4 capacity with two engines. It does, however, have a good future as a cargo plane.

I think Emirates might disagree with the assumption that the A380 can't complete. Also if BA can fill the A380 on routes operated by VS then why can't VS compete. With slot restrictions the 380 can really make the difference for instance BA have 2 x daily to LAX capacity total 938 of which 222 are first or business class. VS would have to use 3 slots to match capacity and 5 slots to natch business class capacity. As VS now are heading in the direction of a feeder airline into Delta hubs surely they could fill a couple of A380s

What is the point of downsizing? I presume that those MCOs dint fly out empty?

VS have always been a bit poor compared to BA so downsizing unfortunately is the only way

On the MCO route Virgin has been anything but "poor compared to BA" with BA only recently adding a second flight per day whereas Virgin has a minimum of 2 going up to 5 flights per day at peak times

My comment was regarding the whole fleet/ destinations not just the MCO route.

I think Emirates might disagree with the assumption that the A380 can't complete. Also if BA can fill the A380 on routes operated by VS then why can't VS compete. With slot restrictions the 380 can really make the difference for instance BA have 2 x daily to LAX capacity total 938 of which 222 are first or business class. VS would have to use 3 slots to match capacity and 5 slots to natch business class capacity. As VS now are heading in the direction of a feeder airline into Delta hubs surely they could fill a couple of A380s

Unlike BA, VS has a very small amount of feed in to its LHR hub.

Little Red has flopped, and there is no EU/UK partner.

You can bet that BA fills a good % of those 380's with connections, but even so they haven't ordered that many when you look at the overall size of their fleet.